John Dorsey named GM

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Browns1987 said:

I will be pulling for Sashi to come back again and this time to let him pick the coach he wants.

Sashi will have another gig by then and Hue will be here blaming the stadium ushers for his record and Haslam will believe him.

[Browns1987]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

A football guy's approach will often fly directly in the face of analytics though. When that happens, which way do you lean?  The football guy probably keeps Haden and trades for McCarron.  Where does that leave us?  It's a short term "gain" that could likely have poor long term ramifications.

Overconfidence in "can't miss" players, signing aging talent, gut instinct, etc are all "football guy" moves that are diametrically opposed to analytical philosophies.

Andrew Berry cut has only ever worked in a traditional scouting department and was Sashi's lead guy in that respect. The narrative that they didn't already incorporate traditional scouting is 100% false, and always has been. We already had a former GM who earned his stripes as a scout as well.  It's a false and lazy narrative.

If a "football guy" wants to trade a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarron when he will be a FA in half a year, then he does not know much about football. 

I really hate this "football guy" thing. Its like a sect that is fighting to keep their jobs.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, Browns1987 said:

If a "football guy" wants to trade a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarron when he will be a FA in half a year, then he does not know much about football. 

I really hate this "football guy" thing. Its like a sect that is fighting to keep their jobs.

It's the nfl equivalent of a sorcerer.

They think they can look at tea leaves and spot talent.

Meanwhile an idiot pointing at names on Kiper's big board can hit with roughly the same success rate.

[brownie man]

11 hours ago, NateDawg said:

I’m not overly excited about any of those 27 YOA runners. It’d be great to find our answer in the 2nd-3rd like Kamara and David Johnson were. Obviously, I know those were outliers, but there will be someone decent out there between our 3rd and 6th picks. We have 5 picks in the first 65. One of those should be an RB.

If they can draft their QB, find a good runner, sign a starting caliber WR, and and draft a WR with one of those early picks, we could see a very different offense. 

QB: Veteran/Rookie/Kizer

RB: Rookie/Duke

WR: Gordon/Coleman/FA/Rookie

TE: Njoku/Devalve

 

I think Dorsey is gonna try to find the next Kareem Hunt

Alot of potential for that guy

I think he'll take Derriuse Guice top of round 2 if I had to give it a shot 

[brownie man]

Dorsey did bring in some really good players

You get this team

Tyreke Hill

Travis Kelce

Kareem Hunt

Marcus Peters

and we're ballin 

and like I said going back to in without using hindsight Dorsey would've Drafted Wentz even without knowing what we know about him now

so I'm gonna roll with him

I love Sashi but I definitely dont look at this as a downgrade just kinda disappointed Sashi didn't get to use his picks

 

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

A football guy's approach will often fly directly in the face of analytics though. When that happens, which way do you lean?

Exactly why the combination is good.

Analytics can be misleading.

For one thing, they do not tell you anything about a guy's character, love of the game and desire to win.

They are not a good substitute for what your eyes tell you, either.

When there is a clash, big boys sit down, lay their cards on the table, enlist others -- so long as they are not Haslams or Hue -- who can help them make the best decision and agree which way to go.

[Browns1987]

37 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Dorsey did bring in some really good players

You get this team

Tyreke Hill

Travis Kelce

Kareem Hunt

Marcus Peters

and we're ballin 

and like I said going back to in without using hindsight Dorsey would've Drafted Wentz even without knowing what we know about him now

so I'm gonna roll with him

I love Sashi but I definitely dont look at this as a downgrade just kinda disappointed Sashi didn't get to use his picks

 

Of course he did, he had 4 drafts. Even Farmer brought good players (Kirksey or Shelton).

Im not sure if I would put Tyreke, everyone knew he was a good player. He just got him because he was willing to bring in a woman beater.

[Reginaldm9]

I want to here from Sashi who he would take #1 overall and then I want to see who Dorsey takes. If they're different at all we could have some spectacular meltdowns on this site. 

[bruceb]

My biggest concern with Dorsey is that he is an old dog who might be inclined to do things like take the FA (ala' Alex Smith in KC) route to fixing our QB situation, which it won't, at least not enough for the short term and certainly not for the long term.

I also am concerned that he will abandon the strategy of moving around the draft to acquire future picks. Doesn't seem like that is in his repetoire.

In fact, I could see him, with Cueball's full support that he would deny down the road if it doesn't work, doing quite the opposite and squandering picks in this kind of way:

BROWNS GET#3 PICK  49ERS GET#7 PICK, 2ND IN 2018 AND 1ST IN 2019

Selecting Barkley with #3.

https://nflmocks.com/2017/12/08/2018-nfl-mock-draft-trades-shift-the-balance-of-power/

 

[buno67]

19 minutes ago, bruceb said:

My biggest concern with Dorsey is that he is an old dog who might be inclined to do things like take the FA (ala' Alex Smith in KC) route to fixing our QB situation, which it won't, at least not enough for the short term and certainly not for the long term.

I also am concerned that he will abandon the strategy of moving around the draft to acquire future picks. Doesn't seem like that is in his repetoire.

In fact, I could see him, with Cueball's full support that he would deny down the road if it doesn't work, doing quite the opposite and squandering picks in this kind of way:

BROWNS GET#3 PICK  49ERS GET#7 PICK, 2ND IN 2018 AND 1ST IN 2019

Selecting Barkley with #3.

https://nflmocks.com/2017/12/08/2018-nfl-mock-draft-trades-shift-the-balance-of-power/

 

I would have no problem with Smith tho. When Dorsey got him in KC, he knew he could be the franchise QB for handful of years. If he brings him to Cleveland, he knows he is going to be the Bridge QB. Redflags would be him signing Smith and not going after Darnold or Rosen.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, bruceb said:

Exactly why the combination is good.

Analytics can be misleading.

For one thing, they do not tell you anything about a guy's character, love of the game and desire to win.

They are not a good substitute for what your eyes tell you, either.

When there is a clash, big boys sit down, lay their cards on the table, enlist others -- so long as they are not Haslams or Hue -- who can help them make the best decision and agree which way to go.

Has this not been happening already?  

We have a roster full of seemingly high character guys who continue to play harder despite the record. Whatever method they had been using seems to be doing ok in that regard.

The problem is Hue has no interest in listening to anything that resembles a patient approach.  For Christ's sake he wanted to trade two top 65 picks for AJ McCarron so he would have a better shot at 4-12 as opposed to whatever we end up, regardless of what those meaningless wins meant as far as getting a qb with our first pick.

I'm going to assume Sashi was comfortable waiting until April because he thought he had 3-5 years AS HE TOLD OUR MORONIC OWNER IT WOULD TAKE to do his job.  That was the mistake, trusting the impatient jackass who signed his checks.

[bruceb]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Has this not been happening already?  

We have a roster full of seemingly high character guys who continue to play harder despite the record. Whatever method they had been using seems to be doing ok in that regard.

The problem is Hue has no interest in listening to anything that resembles a patient approach.  For Christ's sake he wanted to trade two top 65 picks for AJ McCarron so he would have a better shot at 4-12 as opposed to whatever we end up, regardless of what those meaningless wins meant as far as getting a qb with our first pick.

I'm going to assume Sashi was comfortable waiting until April because he thought he had 3-5 years AS HE TOLD OUR MORONIC OWNER IT WOULD TAKE to do his job.  That was the mistake, trusting the impatient jackass who signed his checks.

Not sure what, if any, level of collaboration existed between Sashi and Cueball.

Read somewhere this morning that they hadn't spoken for a month, basically since Sashi pocket-vetoed the ridiculous McCarron trade.

Cue cannot be allowed to have any but minimally necessary input into use of our picks.

The McCarron almost debacle and its Palmer predecessor in OAK show crystal clearly that he has no concept of pick value and/or that Ditch is right about him being a Manchurian Candidate for CIN.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Not sure what, if any, level of collaboration existed between Sashi and Cueball.

Read somewhere this morning that they hadn't spoken for a month, basically since Sashi pocket-vetoed the ridiculous McCarron trade.

Cue cannot be allowed to have any but minimally necessary input into use of our picks.

The McCarron almost debacle and its Palmer predecessor in OAK show crystal clearly that he has no concept of pick value and/or that Ditch is right about him being a Manchurian Candidate for CIN.

I don't think there's anything more to Huey than simple impatience.

It takes a special man to stare down adversity, not flinch and stick to his guns when he knows he's right but the rest of the world is questioning him.

We just fired that man because our owner is impatient, when all he asked for was patience.

[bruceb]

25 minutes ago, buno67 said:

I would have no problem with Smith tho. When Dorsey got him in KC, he knew he could be the franchise QB for handful of years. If he brings him to Cleveland, he knows he is going to be the Bridge QB. Redflags would be him signing Smith and not going after Darnold or Rosen.

I wouldn't either as a caretaker for a franchise guy, who I think is Darnold. Just mentioned Smith to show that the old dog has done it once before.

What would upset me is crapping up our cap space on someone like Cousins, which would be an expedient (vs. principled) decision.

[big poppa pump]

40 minutes ago, bruceb said:

I wouldn't either as a caretaker for a franchise guy, who I think is Darnold. Just mentioned Smith to show that the old dog has done it once before.

What would upset me is crapping up our cap space on someone like Cousins, which would be an expedient (vs. principled) decision.

I think either scenario you mentioned would have its positives.  Alex Smith as a stop-gap, while drafting Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield 1 overall.

Giving Cousins a ton of money may not seem to be the right choice, but at times (most of the time) he looks like a top 10 QB.  If you decided to not go with a QB 1 overall, it's likely you would be going into next season with Cousins and Barkley.  In the meantime, Kizer could actually sit, and watch, and perhaps develop into an NFL QB.  I could think of worse situations.