John Dorsey named GM

[bruceb]

2 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

In the meantime, Kizer could actually sit, and watch, and perhaps develop into an NFL QB.

pretty sure I would not want to roll the dice on that

[Kathouse Sticks]

6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

To be fair, I had Sashi on a pedestal from the beginning, still do.  I'm all in on the philosophy he was trying to implement.

Dorsey had nothing to do with a lot of the really talented guys on those Cheifs teams over the last 4 years.  Berry, Poe, Bailey, Hudson, Houston, Hali, Charles, Carr, etc were all drafted by his predecessors. He drafted Kelce, Hunt and Hill as his key finds, and Hill is a pile of human sht, so no kudos there.

Dorsey is responsible for the roster as you see it in KC today, which is old, expensive, has poor cap flexibility and has a .500 record. It's almost as if the team has started to decline as the guys who are stars that he didn't draft are now on the wrong side of 30 or gone. Look at the last 4 drafts they've had and tell me you see a wizard at identifying talent.

From reading your posts, I never would have guessed. I just thought LETSGOBROWNIES was the pen name of Sashi’s mom or something. The sign of how well Sashi did his job here will be to see where he lands his next GM gig. You’ll probably need to change your user ID to LETSGOIDAHOA&M. 

You mentioned earlier how you look forward to all of his trade downs. Can I ask, at some point we need NFL caliber talent.  With all of these trade downs, when exactly was Sashi going to pick some?  With his third fourth round pick, after his sixth trade down from the 8th spot, acquired from Houston, as part of the deal for Manhattan for some Dutch beads and Brock Osweiler?  NOW that’s analytics for you. So was Kenny Britt. And the decision to trade with Houston instead of picking Hooker.  And to let Pryor walk. And Schwartz walk....

In looking at his total record, while he may have initiated some nice moves to acquire assets, his record of bringing in enough talent to win games in the NFL with his assets he had to work with was not good.  You can’t deny the 0-12 record. And if he had control of the 53 man roster you can’t deny the lack of talent to win on the roster. And as Bill Parcells said, the NFL is a talent acquisition business. Sorry, but I agree with the decision. I think hiring Dorsey is going to make a huge difference and we will both be happy when we start winning games. 

[zappa13004]

6 hours ago, Browns1987 said:

trade a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarron when he will be a FA in half a year

I would not be surprised to see McCarron signed and compete with the #1 and Kizer next year but as you wrote the price was too high. Just wait and sign him in offseason is better and it is not like if McCarron would be a cant miss you have to secure.

[buno67]

20 minutes ago, zappa13004 said:

I would not be surprised to see McCarron signed and compete with the #1 and Kizer next year but as you wrote the price was too high. Just wait and sign him in offseason is better and it is not like if McCarron would be a cant miss you have to secure.

Well we don’t know what kind of FA he will be. He might be a RFA or UFA.  So it’s hard to assume we will automatically get him with just a contract 

[zappa13004]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

Well we don’t know what kind of FA he will be. He might be a RFA or UFA.  So it’s hard to assume we will automatically get him with just a contract 

So we'd better pass. Free to be signed ? Why not. Buying him with a pick, no.

[bruceb]

2 minutes ago, zappa13004 said:

So we'd better pass. Free to be signed ? Why not. Buying him with a pick, no.

Agree, but he is Cueball's boy, so we will have to wait and see what happens.

[zappa13004]

1 hour ago, Kathouse Sticks said:

And as Bill Parcells said, the NFL is a talent acquisition business.

I thought his plan was to have assets in the draft of his choice. Comparing 2018 class and 2017 one i think : RBs, better in 2018. QBs, better in 2018. Oline, better in 2018. Safety, better in 2018. DTs, better in 2018. WRs, better in 2018. Having 5 picks in the top 60 was his plan, i think. And that was a nice plan to me.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, Kathouse Sticks said:From reading your posts, I never would have guessed. I just thought LETSGOBROWNIES was the pen name of Sashi’s mom or something. The sign of how well Sashi did his job here will be to see where he lands his next GM gig. You’ll probably need to change your user ID to LETSGOIDAHOA&M. 

You mentioned earlier how you look forward to all of his trade downs. Can I ask, at some point we need NFL caliber talent.  With all of these trade downs, when exactly was Sashi going to pick some?  With his third fourth round pick, after his sixth trade down from the 8th spot, acquired from Houston, as part of the deal for Manhattan for some Dutch beads and Brock Osweiler?  NOW that’s analytics for you. So was Kenny Britt. And the decision to trade with Houston instead of picking Hooker.  And to let Pryor walk. And Schwartz walk....

In looking at his total record, while he may have initiated some nice moves to acquire assets, his record of bringing in enough talent to win games in the NFL with his assets he had to work with was not good.  You can’t deny the 0-12 record. And if he had control of the 53 man roster you can’t deny the lack of talent to win on the roster. And as Bill Parcells said, the NFL is a talent acquisition business. Sorry, but I agree with the decision. I think hiring Dorsey is going to make a huge difference and we will both be happy when we start winning games. 

So many clever comments in here to dissect, where does one begin?

As far as "nfl caliber talent", did we not just make the number one overall section last year as well as two ADDITIONAL first round picks? Add to that the 6 top 65 picks in 2018 and I'm not sure I could even venture a guess as to when that could happen.

You can look at the record all you like, but his goal was never to build a winner for 2017.  The league leading cap space, youngest roster in the league and 21 years old qb couldn't have made that point any clearer, obvious to everyone except the dullest of individuals.

Grade A post though, welcome to the boards.

[Kathouse Sticks]

28 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

So many clever comments in here to dissect, where does one begin?

As far as "nfl caliber talent", did we not just make the number one overall section last year as well as two ADDITIONAL first round picks? Add to that the 6 top 65 picks in 2018 and I'm not sure I could even venture a guess as to when that could happen.

You can look at the record all you like, but his goal was never to build a winner for 2017.  The league leading cap space, youngest roster in the league and 21 years old qb couldn't have made that point any clearer, obvious to everyone except the dullest of individuals.

Grade A post though, welcome to the boards.

Thanks, man. Appreciate it. I’m not one to argue, but after a point, I was OFF the Sashi bandwagon. So, what was the plan for 2017?  I didn’t expect a Super Bowl, but man, give us SOMETHING to be encouraged about. 

Three first round picks? Agree. Did we maximize those picks?  I’m not sure. No argument with Garrett, but my skepticism starts when your coach asks for a play making safety in the mold of Ed Reed, but you instead go against what the coach asks for and do what you think is best. So, we miss out on Hooker and draft Peppers. And while I like Peppers, I don’t think he is as good as Hooker. And where is his contribution in the return game that we were going to see?  I’m not giving up on him, I’m just not sure he was the best pick we could have made.  Njoku has the chance to be really, really good.  I’m not knocking the picks, just not sure they’re a slam dunk (yet).  And the jury is definitely still out on Coleman. Is he going to be what we hope he is going to be, or is he going to be an injury prone average WR?

I know that’s just four players, but those are the four you expect tremendous contributions from, and we’re just not getting it every week, or consistently. 

And you HAVE to look at the record, don’t you?  Is that not what ultimately maters?  If not, Sashi might as well have said, “Well, great fans of Cleveland, we’re tanking and going 0-16 this year, but no worries. We’re positioned great for 2018.  Just bear with us.”  How would you have responded to that?  In my mind, that’s what they were saying, in my opinion. 

[FGK]

3 hours ago, Kathouse Sticks said:

So, what was the plan for 2017?  I didn’t expect a Super Bowl, but man, give us SOMETHING to be encouraged about. 

Three first round picks? Agree. Did we maximize those picks?  I’m not sure.

I'm realizing that this whole fight is about expectations.

If you went in sold on "tank for finally being good in 2018/19", then you're fine.

If you (for whatever reason) expected to be good in 2017, you're pissed at Sashi and glad he's gone.

Because those of us who got the tanking strategy and got ready for it tend to be REALLY excited about the future of the team and to see a ton of good stuff. Like what looks like it will be a top 5 DL within a couple years, three stud LBs, a top 5 OL, and a potential star at TE. We get that a lot of picks flame out and think that it looking like we hit big on two of our three firsts last year is awesome.

Those who went in expecting to win are pissed that we didn't resign Josh McCown (seriously who is this vet QB we could've gotten? Cause I remember wanting one too and then I remember there being nobody available.) Hate our WR group. And think we have no talent (generalization, but that's the tone).

It's all about what you expected going in.

[Kiwibrown]

If we keep McCown we are probably go 5-11.

But we would be stuck there without the no.1 overall pick. Assuming we don't stuff it up. 

[FGK]

4 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

If we keep McCown we are probably go 5-11.

But we would be stuck there without the no.1 overall pick. Assuming we don't stuff it up. 

Except that McCown suuuuuuuucked while he was here.

Isn't McCown evidence that Hue is a bad offensive coach? Like, he was awful here and goes to the Jets and is totally serviceable?

I just don't get Hue's role here at this point. He's an offensive minded coach whose offense has been awful both years. He's a "QB guru" who benches QBs as soon as he feels like it and demolishes any confidence they might have. He's a "talent evaluator" who thought Kizer should start as a 21 year old rookie when he had three different Vet place holders. But instead of committing to one of them preseason and letting them take their lumps, he threw Kizer in.

I don't get what this guy is supposedly good at anymore.

[big poppa pump]

4 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Except that McCown suuuuuuuucked while he was here.

Isn't McCown evidence that Hue is a bad offensive coach? Like, he was awful here and goes to the Jets and is totally serviceable?

I just don't get Hue's role here at this point. He's an offensive minded coach whose offense has been awful both years. He's a "QB guru" who benches QBs as soon as he feels like it and demolishes any confidence they might have. He's a "talent evaluator" who thought Kizer should start as a 21 year old rookie when he had three different Vet place holders. But instead of committing to one of them preseason and letting them take their lumps, he threw Kizer in.

I don't get what this guy is supposedly good at anymore.

I  don't think Hue has done anything special at all, and actually would not care at all if he gets fired....but to be fair.. why did Pryor look so good last year, but looks terrible this year?

[FGK]

3 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

I  don't think Hue has done anything special at all, and actually would not care at all if he gets fired....but to be fair.. why did Pryor look so good last year, but looks terrible this year?

This is the only thing I can think of where Hue seems to have made someone look good. But couldn't that just be volume? Pryor went to a different team that actually had other WR's and immediately got dropped to the bottom of the depth chart. Injuries have been part of it for him this year, but he was losing playing time to guys like Josh Doctson even before he got hurt.

Like, I think the Jets offense is basically what ours could be with a game manager QB (Kessler?) and a really creative OC. They've used some fun, college-style route trees to unlock what their guys do well, rather than just banging them into the wall trying to fit them into "the system". Like Corey Coleman = Robby Anderson, Kenny Britt = Kearse (laugh, but they had the EXACT same reputation prior to this year), their OL isn't as good as ours and their running game is a bruiser (Forte/Crowell) and a pass catcher (Powell/Johnson). We have better TE's too. But instead we threw out Kizer when he clearly wasn't ready and instead of changing the system to make it easier on him, we had him throw enough deep passes to have him in the top 8 in the league in 15+ yard attempts until we simplified things a few weeks ago.

[Kiwibrown]

12 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Except that McCown suuuuuuuucked while he was here.

Isn't McCown evidence that Hue is a bad offensive coach? Like, he was awful here and goes to the Jets and is totally serviceable?

I just don't get Hue's role here at this point. He's an offensive minded coach whose offense has been awful both years. He's a "QB guru" who benches QBs as soon as he feels like it and demolishes any confidence they might have. He's a "talent evaluator" who thought Kizer should start as a 21 year old rookie when he had three different Vet place holders. But instead of committing to one of them preseason and letting them take their lumps, he threw Kizer in.

I don't get what this guy is supposedly good at anymore.

Did he though?

His Browns Career passer rating is 85 18 T's to 10 INTs he played well last year against the Ravens before injury. 

Sure as hell better than most other options we have.