Week 12: VIKINGS (6-5) vs. Bears (3-8)

[swede700]

Blackmon recovered nicely from his difficulties late in the Broncos game.  But, it's clear how poor the offense was from the grading. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by swede700

[Dolmonite26]

5 minutes ago, Captain Relax said:

I don't know what to make of this game.  If the putrid offensive were only a Minnesota thing, then I'd really be concerned. But, as the ESPN talking heads have indicated, offensive output is down across the league this year.  It seems as if the teams with the better defenses are having their way this season.  Despite some dumb decisions by the Vikings offense, the Bears defense was the best unit on the field last night.

The dumb decision by O'Connell was trying to stay with the passing game, even while the Chicago secondary was shutting down Viking receivers throughout.  O'Connell weakness as a play caller is that he is focused on the passing attack, when consistently running the ball is the only way to beat tight coverage. Maybe he has no confidence in calling running plays?

Anyway, I'd be more depressed if this was only happening to the Vikings. In 2023, winning football games means playing great defense...which is why the Vikings are in every game.  They are a good defense...just not a great one.

I think this game is pretty easy to digest for me by just chocking it up to Dobbs being a below average and maybe possibly a bad starter.

There's more that happened in this game obviously, but at the end of the day Dobbs was terrible and to lesser extent so was Addison and the two of them kind of single handily ruined any chance of the team finding a rhythm or having any semblance of a punch they could rely on.

Yeah the defense should have done better at the end and it seems to be a continuation of poor 2 minute defense on their part, but they were so incredible this game and only gave up 12 points that... I just don't see any point in blaming them.

Everyone keeps pulling their hair out cause of the run game, but this team's running game just isn't good enough that it can be your whole game plan. You still need a quarterback who can keep the offense on schedule and Dobbs couldn't do that at all. Good gains in the running game we're followed up by poor pass protection and even worse decisions by Dobbs. Is that on KOC? Idk maybe, but honestly this team just doesn't have the horses right now and that kind of just sucks but it is what it is.

[SteelKing728]

I miss Kirko Chainz

[swede700]

5 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

I miss Kirko Chainz

I think we generally knew we were going to miss him (even if we didn't say it or write it), because we knew what we were going to get...and that's consistent play.  We certainly miss his ability to handle pressure, which he was excelling at this year. 

I think the answer has become more evident as each week goes by that the Vikings will and should attempt to bring back Kirk for at least 1, if not 2 years (maybe throw in a void year or 2 again for cap purposes). He's clearly the better option to function in KOC's offense and to groom a successor. 

[SteelKing728]

23 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I think we generally knew we were going to miss him (even if we didn't say it or write it), because we knew what we were going to get...and that's consistent play.  We certainly miss his ability to handle pressure, which he was excelling at this year. 

I think the answer has become more evident as each week goes by that the Vikings will and should attempt to bring back Kirk for at least 1, if not 2 years (maybe throw in a void year or 2 again for cap purposes). He's clearly the better option to function in KOC's offense and to groom a successor. 

I agree with this regardless if we make the playoffs or not.

[Dolmonite26]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/questionable-non-call-of-intentional-grounding-fueled-bears-final-drive

How do we feel about this? I thought it was grounding in real time, but they're never consistent with this rule.

Definitely would have been significant and possibly altered they outcome.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Dolmonite26

[SemperFeist]

With how they’ve called it in other games, it should have been grounding. 

[Dolmonite26]

My thing is that even if it not, it should be. I hate that the defender earns a positive play but the QB can just blindly hurl the ball before going down?

Edited November 28, 2023 by Dolmonite26

[swede700]

32 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/questionable-non-call-of-intentional-grounding-fueled-bears-final-drive

How do we feel about this? I thought it was grounding in real time, but they're never consistent with this rule.

Definitely would have been significant and possibly altered they outcome.

It's been inconsistently applied throughout my football-loving life.  For those of you that have been around since the late 80s, do you remember the egregious time of the "in the grasp" rule?  While not the same, that was ridiculously favored to the defense. 

I always think when you clearly toss it to avoid a sack it should be intentional grounding period.  None of this "outside the tackle box, to the line of scrimmage and a receiver near the throw" nonsense because it leaves it far too open to interpretation. 

However, based on the rules as is, I was okay with not calling it...of course, Dobbs shouldn't have been called for it either, but he was.  It's that inconsistency in application that drives me nuts.  Eliminate the interpretation aspect of the rule and it will be consistently applied.     

Edited November 28, 2023 by swede700

[Dolmonite26]

Yeah but how do you define "clearly avoiding a sack" in a way that isn't also super interpretation based?

I get where you're coming from but it's a tough aspect of the game to legislate.

My sense is that refs are more likely to rule it grounding when it's actually thrown at the ground, but for some reason passes flung out of bounds, that also clearly aren't intended for anybody, aren't called as much.

Should have been called, wish it had, oh well I guess. Not like the Vikings got robbed here 

[Duluther]

2 hours ago, swede700 said:

I think we generally knew we were going to miss him (even if we didn't say it or write it), because we knew what we were going to get...and that's consistent play.  We certainly miss his ability to handle pressure, which he was excelling at this year. 

I think the answer has become more evident as each week goes by that the Vikings will and should attempt to bring back Kirk for at least 1, if not 2 years (maybe throw in a void year or 2 again for cap purposes). He's clearly the better option to function in KOC's offense and to groom a successor. 

 

[Sir Fobos]

10 hours ago, swede700 said:

It's hard to have Dobbs roll out of the pocket when the defense you're playing against is anticipating it every play and holding the edge.  The Bears defense played extremely well last night as they exploited the weaknesses that are evident in Dobbs. 

Exactly. It was pretty apparent from the start that the Bears were containing Dobbs, blanketing the tight ends, and making Dobbs try to hit the receivers. There was no room to run on most passing plays. The Bears' secondary played really well and Addison had a rough game. Without room to run or a safety valve to throw to, Dobbs foundered over and over again as the pressure got to him. If he just threw the ball away instead of forcing really bad passes while under pressure, this game could have had a very different outcome.

 

Dobbs is still very new to the system, and I think KOC can get the most out of him if given time. He's very mobile and has a strong arm. If Dobbs can improve his timing with the WRs there's no reason he can't bounce back and lead a productive offense. He'd start seeing room to run again, especially with JJ back on the field. Whether or not that can occur by the playoffs? Who knows...

 

Dobbs is becoming more of a known quantity every week, and defenses are keying in on his weaknesses. But Hall is a rookie and still a big question mark. If Hall sees the field and plays even worse than Dobbs, what then?

[marshpit23]

54 minutes ago, Sir Fobos said:

Exactly. It was pretty apparent from the start that the Bears were containing Dobbs, blanketing the tight ends, and making Dobbs try to hit the receivers. There was no room to run on most passing plays. The Bears' secondary played really well and Addison had a rough game. Without room to run or a safety valve to throw to, Dobbs foundered over and over again as the pressure got to him. If he just threw the ball away instead of forcing really bad passes while under pressure, this game could have had a very different outcome.

 

Dobbs is still very new to the system, and I think KOC can get the most out of him if given time. He's very mobile and has a strong arm. If Dobbs can improve his timing with the WRs there's no reason he can't bounce back and lead a productive offense. He'd start seeing room to run again, especially with JJ back on the field. Whether or not that can occur by the playoffs? Who knows...

 

Dobbs is becoming more of a known quantity every week, and defenses are keying in on his weaknesses. But Hall is a rookie and still a big question mark. If Hall sees the field and plays even worse than Dobbs, what then?

You simply have a better idea on Hall’s potential. 

[CriminalMind]

My preference is to start Hall for the rest of the season period. He is the player under contract next year and we need to see what we have in him (after we know what we have in Dobbs now, unfortunately)

[SemperFeist]

A few weeks ago O'Connell talked about turning the ball over and holding those responsible accountable.

He can't continue to play Dobbs if he's going to actually hold players accountable.