Which team has the best young core to build around?

[notthatbluestuff]

15 hours ago, 4thandInches said:

Good call, forgot about that.

And Saints 2017.

[Louis Friend]

16 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Only 11 touches between these two this week, Dan Campbell hates using his best players.

Sam LaPorta- 9/9 140 yards 1 TD this week. 
 

[Louis Friend]

16 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

It's hard to see the Lions as a best young core as Goff turns 30 next year and Hendon Hooker is older than Love and FIelds.

Thread said best young core not best young QB. 

[Spartacus]

4 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Thread said best young core not best young QB. 

QB kinda is the core of the core though. 

[Louis Friend]

Just now, Spartacus said:

QB kinda is the core of the core though. 

Not always. Game manager QBs exist for a reason, while very good QBs don’t see much success. Football is the ultimate team game. 

[NYRaider]

22 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Sam LaPorta- 9/9 140 yards 1 TD this week. 
 

I was referring to the two guys they spent top 12 picks on

[PossibleCabbage]

1 hour ago, Louis Friend said:

Not always. Game manager QBs exist for a reason, while very good QBs don’t see much success. Football is the ultimate team game. 

Very few legitimate championship contenders have a "game manager QB".  The goal for a "good young core" should be to build on that to compete for championships.  The absolute hardest thing for a team that's already pretty good to add is "a QB who will make a difference."  Like a good defense and a bad QB is a false economy because the good defense will keep you out of the range in the draft where good QBs can be found.

It's like how you'd rate the impact of a pass rusher or cornerback higher on a defense than you would a safety or an off-ball LB. 

[Mr.UFO]

I think it's the yellow and green machine. Jordan Love is improving of late, and Christian Watson is a young talent.

[General Tso]

Why are the Lions disqualified from this topic? They have a veteran Pro Bowl QB that can lead the young core, makes no sense to me.

[NJerseypaint]

2 minutes ago, General Tso said:

Why are the Lions disqualified from this topic? They have a veteran Pro Bowl QB that can lead the young core, makes no sense to me.

Because this week Love is back to being QBOTF.

[Malfatron]

Packers which is only young core

[Soko]

Don’t how it could possibly be the Packers. 

Obvious answer here is Houston. Stud QB, talented RB, stud WR, future stud at C, stud on DL, solid LBer, and two potential studs in the secondary. If you wanted to take Watson and Doubs and Reed over Dell and Collins, that’s fine (I wouldn’t), but the gap between Stroud and Love (or most of the rookie deal QBs) is enough to make most of these conversations pretty moot. 

Only way we can change the conversation up is by including guys on second contracts/“young” guys that are 25 or 26.

[Billy86]

4 hours ago, Soko said:

Don’t how it could possibly be the Packers. 

Obvious answer here is Houston. Stud QB, talented RB, stud WR, future stud at C, stud on DL, solid LBer, and two potential studs in the secondary. If you wanted to take Watson and Doubs and Reed over Dell and Collins, that’s fine (I wouldn’t), but the gap between Stroud and Love (or most of the rookie deal QBs) is enough to make most of these conversations pretty moot. 

Only way we can change the conversation up is by including guys on second contracts/“young” guys that are 25 or 26.

QB - Stroud is undoubtedly the top guy of the two here, but if Love continues to play like he has for the last five games then we may have a conversation. 

RB - Houston has Dameon Pierce who looked pretty good last year but seems to have been terrible this year on a 2.9 YPC. GB only have Emmanuel Wilson who has barely played, but has looked impressive in his limited snaps. I would edge it to Houston on proven-ness, but neither seem massively exciting on this front.

WR - you can compare Reed/Wicks/Doubs with Collins/Dell, but you also have to account for Dontayvion Wicks in GB who has quietly been really, really good and has the highest PFF rating of all of GB's pass catcher (WR or TE). 

TE - GB have a stud in Luke Musgrave, while Tucker Kraft after a pretty terrible first half of the year has been picking it up and looking much better in the last few weeks. Brevin Jordan at Houston and Ben Sims in GB also have looked decent enough, albeit in limited snaps each.

OL - Houston have Jarrett Patterson at center who can be good but has work to do, as well as Kendrick Green and Juice Scruggs who have left a bit to be desired. GB meanwhile have Zach Tom who already is a stud, as well as Rasheed Walker who is not on that level but has been improving throughout the year and Sean Rhyan who has also left some to be desired.

IDL - GB have Karl Brooks who has been looking like a real potential stud, while Colby Wooden has also been decent as a rookie. I don't think Houston have any players who qualify here, age wise.

EDGE - No question, Will Anderson is the pick of the bunch here. GB have Kingsley Enagbare who does not have a very high ceiling but has been a sneakily decent player in the rotation this year, as well as Lukas Van Ness who has sky high athletic potential but has not shown an awful lot.

LB - GB have Quay Walker who has been frustratingly inconsistent but also shown a really high ceiling at times, while Isiah McDuffie has quietly been improving year on year and has looked solid this year while playing about 50% of defensive snaps. Harris in Houston has also looked decent from what I have seen, but as I understand it their other young linebacker (To'oto'o) has been pretty awful.

DB - at CB both Stephen Nelson in Houston and Carrington Valentine in GB have looked promising, while at S both Pitre in Houston and Anthony Johnson Jr in GB might be able to become something but have quite a bit of work to do.

K/P - both of GB's are rookies, and my countryman Daniel Whelan has very impressive. Both of Houston's are the other side of 30.

So I think it is more a matter of Houston having more top-top end guys right now from what we have seen of these guys, while GB have an absolute bucketload of good guys, and plenty who could be elite. I would have Houston ahead for now as GB need to continue what they have been doing since the first eight or so weeks were very rough, but by the end of the season that could easily have flipped... if GB can keep up what they have been doing.

I also think something working in GB's favour is that while not young (24 or under) players themselves, it is noteworthy that when you run through each teams roster, you see a lot more guys in Houston who are around 29 or older who will inevitably need replacing sooner, while GB seem more loaded in that 25-28 range both in terms of star players and depth which is part of what has contributed to them being the youngest team in the league since the infamously winless 2017 Browns, while if I recall Houston is actually one of the older teams in the league right now. That does not impact things in here-and-now, but it does make it a lot easier for GB to prioritise gaps in the next draft or two and build on this youth more effectively. There is no guarantee about how well a team will use these picks or not of course, but if a good young core is about your future prospects then it is still worth mentioning.

Either way, both teams are very exciting ones to be a fan of at this moment in time.

[lavar703]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:42 PM, PossibleCabbage said:

It's hard to see the Lions as a best young core as Goff turns 30 next year and Hendon Hooker is older than Love and FIelds.

Like the thing I would consider most important for "good young core" is "good young quarterback" because those are hard to find and the thing I would consider least important is "good young running back" since there are 4-5 of those per draft.

30 is not even remotely old for a QB anymore. 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Billy86 said:

QB - Stroud is undoubtedly the top guy of the two here, but if Love continues to play like he has for the last five games then we may have a conversation. 

RB - Houston has Dameon Pierce who looked pretty good last year but seems to have been terrible this year on a 2.9 YPC. GB only have Emmanuel Wilson who has barely played, but has looked impressive in his limited snaps. I would edge it to Houston on proven-ness, but neither seem massively exciting on this front.

WR - you can compare Reed/Wicks/Doubs with Collins/Dell, but you also have to account for Dontayvion Wicks in GB who has quietly been really, really good and has the highest PFF rating of all of GB's pass catcher (WR or TE). 

TE - GB have a stud in Luke Musgrave, while Tucker Kraft after a pretty terrible first half of the year has been picking it up and looking much better in the last few weeks. Brevin Jordan at Houston and Ben Sims in GB also have looked decent enough, albeit in limited snaps each.

OL - Houston have Jarrett Patterson at center who can be good but has work to do, as well as Kendrick Green and Juice Scruggs who have left a bit to be desired. GB meanwhile have Zach Tom who already is a stud, as well as Rasheed Walker who is not on that level but has been improving throughout the year and Sean Rhyan who has also left some to be desired.

IDL - GB have Karl Brooks who has been looking like a real potential stud, while Colby Wooden has also been decent as a rookie. I don't think Houston have any players who qualify here, age wise.

EDGE - No question, Will Anderson is the pick of the bunch here. GB have Kingsley Enagbare who does not have a very high ceiling but has been a sneakily decent player in the rotation this year, as well as Lukas Van Ness who has sky high athletic potential but has not shown an awful lot.

LB - GB have Quay Walker who has been frustratingly inconsistent but also shown a really high ceiling at times, while Isiah McDuffie has quietly been improving year on year and has looked solid this year while playing about 50% of defensive snaps. Harris in Houston has also looked decent from what I have seen, but as I understand it their other young linebacker (To'oto'o) has been pretty awful.

DB - at CB both Stephen Nelson in Houston and Carrington Valentine in GB have looked promising, while at S both Pitre in Houston and Anthony Johnson Jr in GB might be able to become something but have quite a bit of work to do.

K/P - both of GB's are rookies, and my countryman Daniel Whelan has very impressive. Both of Houston's are the other side of 30.

So I think it is more a matter of Houston having more top-top end guys right now from what we have seen of these guys, while GB have an absolute bucketload of good guys, and plenty who could be elite. I would have Houston ahead for now as GB need to continue what they have been doing since the first eight or so weeks were very rough, but by the end of the season that could easily have flipped... if GB can keep up what they have been doing.

I also think something working in GB's favour is that while not young (24 or under) players themselves, it is noteworthy that when you run through each teams roster, you see a lot more guys in Houston who are around 29 or older who will inevitably need replacing sooner, while GB seem more loaded in that 25-28 range both in terms of star players and depth which is part of what has contributed to them being the youngest team in the league since the infamously winless 2017 Browns, while if I recall Houston is actually one of the older teams in the league right now. That does not impact things in here-and-now, but it does make it a lot easier for GB to prioritise gaps in the next draft or two and build on this youth more effectively. There is no guarantee about how well a team will use these picks or not of course, but if a good young core is about your future prospects then it is still worth mentioning.

Either way, both teams are very exciting ones to be a fan of at this moment in time.

Massive disagree in terms of Green Bay having plenty of young players who could be elite. Like, actually elite, best/conversation for best in the league? Stroud’s on that path. Anderson might get there. I don’t see anyone else on either team reaching that. Not Dell, not Stingley, not Tom, not Walker, not Musgrave, not Pitre. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but it’s just not how I see things shaking out at this moment. 

I see the QB, the most important position, going to Houston by a country mile. For now, I see the best receiver going to Houston. I see the best runner in Houston. The best blocker, debatable, but gotta give that nod to Tom since Patterson got hurt so early + he’s got tackle value. Best DL, hands down, Anderson. Green Bay’s got Walker who I think is a toss up between being a young kid who will turn it around with a little maturing vs someone who remains too inconsistent to rely on as a player, but he’s definitely above To. DB, I’m pretty confident the two I’d want most are also both in Houston. I don’t really view this as a competition. 

When it comes to young guys, especially ones in their rookie season, it’s pretty easy to be optimistic on their outlooks, but you have to give the lion’s share of the credit to the guys that go out there and play a ton of downs at a level that’s competitive to some of the better players in the league. Stroud’s that. Anderson’s that. Pitre was that last year. Dell’s close to that. Stingley might be there if he can stay on the fields. Patterson was that before going down. Green Bay really doesn’t have anyone doing that, I suppose Tom’s the closest. So even if you want to say Green Bay has a bunch of “hasn’t played much, but the team likes them” kind of youngsters, I’ll take the guys that took the field and showed some real star power vs depth guys you hope to develop.