MVP in the true sense

[///mcompact]

4 minutes ago, Danger said:

Just because WIlson is the only thing on the Seahawks, doesn't mean he's performed the best out of any player in the league. Brady would outperform Russell.

Not behind Seattle’s O-line he wouldn’t. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 minutes ago, Danger said:

Just because WIlson is the only thing on the Seahawks, doesn't mean he's performed the best out of any player in the league. Brady would outperform Russell.

Do you even know what thread you're in?

[Pats#1]

5 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

That's literally what Most Valuable means in the literal sense.......If you take Wilson off of the Seahawks, do they even win a game this year with the roster they have?

Their defense would definitely win them some games

[TXsteeler]

13 hours ago, Danger said:

Just because WIlson is the only thing on the Seahawks, doesn't mean he's performed the best out of any player in the league. Brady would outperform Russell.

Dude, read the OP.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 hours ago, Pats#1 said:

Their defense would definitely win them some games

Are we assuming it's the same defense as is right now? Because that defense isn't winning anything by themselves. 

[SWATcha]

10 hours ago, Pats#1 said:

Their defense would definitely win them some games

Maybe, maybe not. That defense has been pretty inconsistent this year and they've been plagued with injuries. 

Wilson IS the Seahawks right now. I seriously believe without Wilson, the Hawks are picking top 5 this year. Shaky O-line, no run game. Every Seahawks game I've watched is Wilson running for his life and making plays out of nothing or making plays off of broken plays. If nothing else it's made all of Seattle's games pretty damn entertaining! 

[mse326]

17 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

That's literally what Most Valuable means in the literal sense.......If you take Wilson off of the Seahawks, do they even win a game this year with the roster they have?

disagree. Let's think of this in terms of money. and let's say $30 dollars is = to a Wild card team

Pile 1 is $30 dollars and has a $20 bill

Pile 2 is $90 and has a $50 bill

That $20 bill makes pile 1 a playoff team when otherwise it isn't and accounts for 67% of the pile's value
The $50 bill makes pile 2 a great team but they are a playoff team without it and it accounts for 55% of the pile's value.

But in no sense of the word is $20 more valuable than $50. It doesn't matter what is around it.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

32 minutes ago, mse326 said:

disagree. Let's think of this in terms of money. and let's say $30 dollars is = to a Wild card team

Pile 1 is $30 dollars and has a $20 bill

Pile 2 is $90 and has a $50 bill

That $20 bill makes pile 1 a playoff team when otherwise it isn't and accounts for 67% of the pile's value
The $50 bill makes pile 2 a great team but they are a playoff team without it and it accounts for 55% of the pile's value.

But in no sense of the word is $20 more valuable than $50. It doesn't matter what is around it.

I'm so lost at what you're trying to do here. The Seahawks with Wilson are a wildcard team this year. Remove Wilson from this team and they're maybe a 3 win team, given what their roster looks like. You cannot make that same argument for the Patriots (assuming you're talking about Brady vs. Wilson?).

[mse326]

47 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

I'm so lost at what you're trying to do here. The Seahawks with Wilson are a wildcard team this year. Remove Wilson from this team and they're maybe a 3 win team, given what their roster looks like. You cannot make that same argument for the Patriots (assuming you're talking about Brady vs. Wilson?).

You're right you missed the point completely.

Think of Pile 1 as the Seahawks and the $20 as Wilson. Think of Pile 2 as the Pats and the $50 as Brady (My numbers for those 2 isn't necessarily to scale it's only to make a point). While the $20 in pile 1 is the reason it gets to the playoffs and is even good and accounts for more of the teams value it cannot in any reasonable sense be said to be more valuable than the $50. $50 is always more valuable than $20. It doesn't matter that the rest of Pile 2 is still enough to make the playoffs.

[TitanLegend]

31 minutes ago, mse326 said:

You're right you missed the point completely.

Think of Pile 1 as the Seahawks and the $20 as Wilson. Think of Pile 2 as the Pats and the $50 as Brady (My numbers for those 2 isn't necessarily to scale it's only to make a point). While the $20 in pile 1 is the reason it gets to the playoffs and is even good and accounts for more of the teams value it cannot in any reasonable sense be said to be more valuable than the $50. $50 is always more valuable than $20. It doesn't matter that the rest of Pile 2 is still enough to make the playoffs.

The way I look at most valuable player is how much worse would the team be if you replaced the player with an average player at that position.

If you put uh..Andy Dalton? at QB on the seahawks, how good are they? If you put Dalton on the Patriots, how good are they?

Your method still looks at who is the better player. Brady is a better player than Wilson, that's not really arguable. That does not by default make him more valuable to his team though, because value to the team does depend some on the ability of the rest of the team.

[mse326]

2 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

The way I look at most valuable player is how much worse would the team be if you replaced the player with an average player at that position.

If you put uh..Andy Dalton? at QB on the seahawks, how good are they? If you put Dalton on the Patriots, how good are they?

Your method still looks at who is the better player. Brady is a better player than Wilson, that's not really arguable. That does not by default make him more valuable to his team though, because value to the team does depend some on the ability of the rest of the team.

That's my point it shouldn't be that. Brady provides more value period. 50>20. The fact that the rest of the team may or may not be good is irrelevant or at least should be. Brady has still provided more value and even more value to his team. The $50 provided more value to Pile 2 than the $20 provided to Pile to 1.

[TitanLegend]

56 minutes ago, mse326 said:

That's my point it shouldn't be that. Brady provides more value period. 50>20. The fact that the rest of the team may or may not be good is irrelevant or at least should be. Brady has still provided more value and even more value to his team. The $50 provided more value to Pile 2 than the $20 provided to Pile to 1.

You can also look at it as $20 means more to a poor person than $50 means to a rich person.

[mse326]

Just now, TitanLegend said:

You can also look at it as $20 means more to a poor person than $50 means to a rich person.

Doesn't mean it has more value. I bet $50 would mean more to a poor person than $20 would.

[TitanLegend]

Just now, mse326 said:

Doesn't mean it has more value. I bet $50 would mean more to a poor person than $20 would.

Yes, because $50 is better than $20. But the rich guy isn't going to miss $50 as much as the poor person is going to miss $20.

[mse326]

Just now, TitanLegend said:

Yes, because $50 is better than $20. But the rich guy isn't going to miss $50 as much as the poor person is going to miss $20.

How is that relevant to which has more value? The $50 is indisputably more valuable than the $20. That can't be argued.