Draft Discussion 2.0

[big poppa pump]

26 minutes ago, mistakey said:

you only get to worry about this extra high pick because you worried about the future picks in the past
you cant talk about good success with this extra high pick while calling the strategy a failure in the past
 

Another bit of irony....cuz had the guy we could have taken with THAT PICK hadn't been injured, this pick would not nearly be as  high.  AND.......AND......had we taken THAT GUY (Deshaun Watson)  we also would be a much better team moving forward.

[MWil23]

12 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Another bit of irony....cuz had the guy we could have taken with THAT PICK hadn't been injured, this pick would not nearly be as  high.  AND.......AND......had we taken THAT GUY (Deshaun Watson)  we also would be a much better team moving forward.

The converse would also hold true back in other drafts. If we traded back from 4 to 9 and select OBJ AND Derek Carr, we have a drastically different outlook.

JMHO

[big poppa pump]

15 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

The converse would also hold true back in other drafts. If we traded back from 4 to 9 and select OBJ AND Derek Carr, we have a drastically different outlook.

JMHO

I get it...and if we stood pat a few years back....we would have Julio Jones.  Sometimes you just have to select the guy that is right there in  front of you.

[MWil23]

Just now, big poppa pump said:

I get it...and if we stood pat a few years back....we would have Julio Jones.  Sometimes you just have to select the guy that is right there if front of you.

I totally understand. For the record, I was:

1. The one and ONLY guy on this forum banging the table for Watson. 

2. 100% against NOT getting Julio for a couple of reasons. 1st, I LOVED Julio. 2nd, I thought we got poop value in return. 2 low end 1st round selections, a low end 2nd, and a couple of late round selections for a Top 5 pick.

That said, assuming we get HIGH value for the #4 selection and we've already gotten our Franchise QB, I'd be for trading back, still getting a high pick this year, and a future 1st+. The Julio trade I still believe and believed then that we got pennies on the dollar. The Sammy Watkins trade we got a LOT of value and made a couple of horrific draft selections.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

I get it...and if we stood pat a few years back....we would have Julio Jones.  Sometimes you just have to select the guy that is right there if front of you.

Do you see Minkah (as a FS) or Chubb as that level of a prospect, provided Barkley is gone?

[buno67]

18 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Another bit of irony....cuz had the guy we could have taken with THAT PICK hadn't been injured, this pick would not nearly be as  high.  AND.......AND......had we taken THAT GUY (Deshaun Watson)  we also would be a much better team moving forward.

Yeah right, you know Huebris would of ruined Watson. At least the Texans incorporated some of his college schemes to make it easier for him. No way Hue does that for him. 

[mistakey]

20 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Another bit of irony....cuz had the guy we could have taken with THAT PICK hadn't been injured, this pick would not nearly be as  high.  AND.......AND......had we taken THAT GUY (Deshaun Watson)  we also would be a much better team moving forward.

or he'd be injured here?

[big poppa pump]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Do you see Minkah (as a FS) or Chubb as that level of a prospect, provided Barkley is gone?

I see both as number 4 worthy, however, I take Minkah, and play him wherever they see fit.  I think he can play FS, although I understand that wasn't his position in college.  He obviously played mostly SS, and Slot Corner, but I believe he instantly upgrades your defensive backfield wherever you play him.

[Mind Character]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000909727/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2018-nfl-draft?campaign=tw-cf-sf179999670-sf179999670&sf179999670=1

Daniel Jeremiah hasn't missed yet in his evaluations this year. I couldn't agree more as what I've been saying about Minkah..."tight hips, is a SS not FS, needs to play where the game is in front of him moving toward the LOS...etc..

Here's his take released via his big board:

RANK

5.

Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Alabama

 

Fitzpatrick is an outstanding playmaker who possesses the versatility to play every position in the secondary. He primarily lined up as the nickel this past season, but he played cornerback as well as safety in previous campaigns. He's at his best when allowed to float and keep his eyes on the quarterback. He has outstanding instincts, anticipation and ball skills. In man coverage, he has the size and speed to match up with both the big/physical pass-catchers as well as the smaller/quicker wideouts. He does have some hip tightness when he changes direction, but he recovers quickly because of his explosiveness. Against the run, he's aggressive to attack the line of scrimmage and is a very dependable tackler in space. He's an outstanding blitzer, displaying timing and burst. I love the energy and enthusiasm he brings to the defense. Overall, I see Fitzpatrick as a dynamic safety on run downs and a playmaking nickel on passing downs. He's a bigger version of Tyrann Mathieu and I think he will make a similar impact in the league.

[big poppa pump]

6 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000909727/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2018-nfl-draft?campaign=tw-cf-sf179999670-sf179999670&sf179999670=1

Daniel Jeremiah hasn't missed yet in his evaluations this year. I couldn't agree more as what I've been saying about Minkah..."tight hips, is a SS not FS, needs to play where the game is in front of him moving toward the LOS...etc..

Here's his take released via his big board:

RANK

5.

Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Alabama

 

Fitzpatrick is an outstanding playmaker who possesses the versatility to play every position in the secondary. He primarily lined up as the nickel this past season, but he played cornerback as well as safety in previous campaigns. He's at his best when allowed to float and keep his eyes on the quarterback. He has outstanding instincts, anticipation and ball skills. In man coverage, he has the size and speed to match up with both the big/physical pass-catchers as well as the smaller/quicker wideouts. He does have some hip tightness when he changes direction, but he recovers quickly because of his explosiveness. Against the run, he's aggressive to attack the line of scrimmage and is a very dependable tackler in space. He's an outstanding blitzer, displaying timing and burst. I love the energy and enthusiasm he brings to the defense. Overall, I see Fitzpatrick as a dynamic safety on run downs and a playmaking nickel on passing downs. He's a bigger version of Tyrann Mathieu and I think he will make a similar impact in the league.

I am not sure if you are advocating, not advocating, the Browns taking him at 4, or simply pointing out where he fits best?  You failed to bold the part where he states that he can play EVERY position in the secondary.  He also has him ranked 5.  If you agree with him, then you have no problem with us taking him at 4?

[Mind Character]

Just now, big poppa pump said:

I am not sure if you are advocating, not advocating, the Browns taking him at 4, or simply pointing out where he fits best?  You failed to bold the part where he states that he can play ANY position in the secondary.  He also has him ranked 5.  If you agree with him, then you have no problem with us taking him at 4?

I didn't bold that part because I've heard DJ's belief stated on the Move the Sticks Podcast and other outlets that while he CAN play anywhere...he's BEST at SS/nickel CB.

Can Jamal Adams play anywhere? Can Jabrill Peppers play anywhere? Tyrann Mathieu?

People thought Jamal was so good that he COULD even play FS but that SS was his best position.

Jabrill was thought to be able to play a lot of positions including FS, but most thought his BEST and most natural position was SS.

Interesting that DJ makes the Mathieu comparison: A player that was thought to be able to play anywhere in the secondary, but ultimaely was thought to be BEST at playing SS and nickel CB.

With that in mind, do I think we should spend the 4th pick on a player that can play FS but is BEST at SS and nickel CB.

I'd say I love the player, but a true CB1, boundary CB would fit better and a trade down (a few spots) and selection of our top CB1 on the board is likely a better option than selecting Minkah at 4.

[buno67]

IMO you want Minkah playing down hill not backing up to play center field. He could play any position in the secondary but SS is by far his best position. I also wouldn’t want to see him playing outside corner because Bama can’t develop corners into NFL talent. Bama can produce SS but they can’t produce corners

[big poppa pump]

1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

I didn't bold that part because I've heard DJ's belief stated on the Move the Sticks Podcast and other outlets that while he CAN play anywhere...he's BEST at SS/nickel CB.

Can Jamal Adams play anywhere? Can Jabrill Peppers play anywhere? Tyrann Mathieu?

People thought Jamal was so good that he COULD even play FS but that SS was his best position.

Jabrill was thought to be to play a lot of positions including FS, but most thought his BEST and most natural position was SS.

Interesting that DJ makes the Mathieu comparison: A player that was thought to be able to play anywhere in the secondary, but ultimaely was thought to be BEST at playing SS and nickel CB.

With that in mind, do I think we should spend the 4th pick on a player that can play FS but is BEST at SS and nickel CB.

I'd say I love the player, but a true CB1, boundary CB would fit better and a trade down (a few spots) and selection of our top CB1 on the board is likely a better option than selecting Minkah at 4.

Well iirc Jamal Adams was taken top 5.  If we took Minkah to play SS, and Slot Corner, I feel the value is still there.  Although we took Peppers, who is ultimately a SS, he played quite a bit of FS (albeit out of position) 

If Williams utilized both Peppers and Fitzpatrick appropriately (and I understand that's a big if) then there is no reason not to take him at 4 if he is BPA.

 

[brownie man]

9 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Well iirc Jamal Adams was taken top 5.  If we took Minkah to play SS, and Slot Corner, I feel the value is still there.  Although we took Peppers, who is ultimately a SS, he played quite a bit of FS (albeit out of position) 

If Williams utilized both Peppers and Fitzpatrick appropriately (and I understand that's a big if) then there is no reason not to take him at 4 if he is BPA.

 

But do you have enough room to play both of those guys filling in the same role?

[big poppa pump]

Just now, brownie man said:

But do you have enough room to play both of those guys filling in the same role?

How often are you playing with 5 DB's?  I think there is room for both.  They need to be creative, and they should be anyways.  Could you not move Minkah to Slot and play Peppers at SS?  Could Peppers play a LB position near the LOS, with Minkah playing SS?  I mean I am not a coaching genius, but I think there is room for 2 players with similar skill-sets to play together.