2018 Draft Thread I

[straighthate]

After today I’m liking the Bills as our trading partner. They have two firsts (theirs and Chiefs), two seconds (theirs and Rams), two thirds (theirs and Eagles) and probably to 5ths depending on if the Jags are in the playoffs. I think the Bills will be picking in the first 12 or so picks, but as of right now they’re right in the middle of the round. All their early acquired picks (Chiefs, Rams, Eagles) will be in the end of the respective round. Bottom line, the Bills have everything they need to move up and get the QB they need. 

I’m no trade chart expert and think they typically don’t match reality, but it seems to me we could end up with both their firsts, their own second and either their third this year or second next year. Could be the trade that creates this team’s future if we can make it happen and pick up 3 or four immediate starters from it. 

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, straighthate said:

After today I’m liking the Bills as our trading partner. They have two firsts (theirs and Chiefs), two seconds (theirs and Rams), two thirds (theirs and Eagles) and probably to 5ths depending on if the Jags are in the playoffs. I think the Bills will be picking in the first 12 or so picks, but as of right now they’re right in the middle of the round. All their early acquired picks (Chiefs, Rams, Eagles) will be in the end of the respective round. Bottom line, the Bills have everything they need to move up and get the QB they need. 

I’m no trade chart expert and think they typically don’t match reality, but it seems to me we could end up with both their firsts, their own second and either their third this year or second next year. Could be the trade that creates this team’s future if we can make it happen and pick up 3 or four immediate starters from it. 

The bills would make a lot of sense as a trade partner...the only problem I have is that I have no idea what that front office and coaching staff is doing at the current point in time lol.  They have had a very confusing season to me. 

 

[Chrissooner49er]

"Obo" is the name Okoronkwo goes by, big. Yes, I definitely think he is worth a 2nd. Perhaps a very late 1st round pick. He is better than many realize.

Okay, folks, I am not going to apologize for Baker's latest nor endorse it. He was over the top. Entirely inappropriate. That said, it was not unprovoked: At the coin toss, the Kansas players refused to shake hands. In game, Kansas players were taking cheap shots at Mayfield. One hit him helmet-to-helmet and another lowered his helmet intending to hurt his throwing shoulder. Neither was called for targeting, though they should have been. It was blatant that Kansas players were playing dirty. He handled it poorly, but they were out to get him more than any other game or team this year. 

[big9erfan]

Obo it is then.  I like the idea of signing Richeburg, drafting Nelson to fix our o-line then maybe Obo and a LB in the second to solidify our front 7 on defense is realkly appealing to me.  That still leaves WRs, CBs. S's, and maybe TE to work on.  But you can win a whole of games with a really good 0-line and defensive front 7. I think a guy like Cobbs might be there in the upper part of the third and he would make another nice piece to add too.

[Forge]

2 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said:

"Obo" is the name Okoronkwo goes by, big. Yes, I definitely think he is worth a 2nd. Perhaps a very late 1st round pick. He is better than many realize.

Okay, folks, I am not going to apologize for Baker's latest nor endorse it. He was over the top. Entirely inappropriate. That said, it was not unprovoked: At the coin toss, the Kansas players refused to shake hands. In game, Kansas players were taking cheap shots at Mayfield. One hit him helmet-to-helmet and another lowered his helmet intending to hurt his throwing shoulder. Neither was called for targeting, though they should have been. It was blatant that Kansas players were playing dirty. He handled it poorly, but they were out to get him more than any other game or team this year. 

Doesn't matter to me if it was provoked or not, and there is no way that you can know what, if anything, Kansas players were intending. Sorry, that doesn't fly.  He did this because they refused to shake hands....which is absolutely dumb. I get that you're defending your guy, but there's no excuse that makes his repeated  actions somehow justified. Mayfield is a tool, quite frankly. Doesn't really kill his draft stock or anything, but the immaturity just reminds me of Jameis. Largely doesn't affect how I feel about him as a prospect, however. 

[Chrissooner49er]

The only legal problem Mayfield has had is one count of public drunkenness. How you equate that to Winston is beyond me!

However, you're welcome to your opinion, of course. Incidents don't happen in a vacuum. But, I am not going to debate/argue the point any further than I already have. 

[Forge]

12 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

The only legal problem Mayfield has had is one count of public drunkenness. How you equate that to Winston is beyond me!

However, you're welcome to your opinion, of course. Incidents don't happen in a vacuum. But, I am not going to debate/argue the point any further than I already have. 

Because they're both immature tools. I didn't say anything about the legal issue. I compared Mayfield's immaturity to Winston's immaturity. 

[big9erfan]

I don't know how the case ended up but this is what was written about it the day after " He was booked for public intoxication and disorderly conduct, as well as fleeing and resisting arrest. " That's four charges, not one.  He ended up apologizing for it.  Then he made an a-hole move by planting the OU flag in the middle of the Ohio State field.  He ended up apolkogizing for that.  Now he's apologizing yet again for the crotch grabbing and obscenities.  I'm completely with Forge on this one.  I love what he offers as a player, mabye more than a lot of other people do.  But he is an immature tool.

[Forge]

59 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

I don't know how the case ended up but this is what was written about it the day after " He was booked for public intoxication and disorderly conduct, as well as fleeing and resisting arrest. " That's four charges, not one.  He ended up apologizing for it.  Then he made an a-hole move by planting the OU flag in the middle of the Ohio State field.  He ended up apolkogizing for that.  Now he's apologizing yet again for the crotch grabbing and obscenities.  I'm completely with Forge on this one.  I love what he offers as a player, mabye more than a lot of other people do.  But he is an immature tool.

And I agree with you - doesn't really effect my opinion of his draft stock, where I would take him, etc. Still like him as a player. 

[John232]

I think I'd love to get Chubb if possible. Having a DE rotation of Chubb, Blair, Thomas, Dumerville, and possibly Carradine and Armstead is a mean rotation. I also feel like Chubb can actually be effective from the LEO position too. 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, John232 said:

I think I'd love to get Chubb if possible. Having a DE rotation of Chubb, Blair, Thomas, Dumerville, and possibly Carradine and Armstead is a mean rotation. I also feel like Chubb can actually be effective from the LEO position too. 

I have the same concerns as @big9erfan regarding Chubb.. A 275 pound leo just seems...not ideal. Not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't seem like a natural fit, and I don't love the idea of drafting another guy who we are just projecting as natural fits there. We had a big discussion in the draft thread for this very thing for Solomon Thomas and where his best fit was last year. Some thought he could play anywhere, others did not. Based on what we have seen in limited action thus far, I'd say the leaning is that he doesn't just translate to any position on the line. Key and Landry seem like more ideal fits for what we actually need to me, but it all depends on whether Chubb can play that LEO role. I really don't want to spend a potential top 3 pick to find out and be wrong. We already have enough guys at that big DE role. 

I think I'd prefer to pass on the guy who I have positional fits for and take Nelson who I think immediately comes in and plays like a stud and improves a really bad interior offensive line. 

[John232]

12 minutes ago, Forge said:

I have the same concerns as @big9erfan regarding Chubb.. A 275 pound leo just seems...not ideal. Not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't seem like a natural fit, and I don't love the idea of drafting another guy who we are just projecting as natural fits there. We had a big discussion in the draft thread for this very thing for Solomon Thomas and where his best fit was last year. Some thought he could play anywhere, others did not. Based on what we have seen in limited action thus far, I'd say the leaning is that he doesn't just translate to any position on the line. Key and Landry seem like more ideal fits for what we actually need to me, but it all depends on whether Chubb can play that LEO role. I really don't want to spend a potential top 3 pick to find out and be wrong. We already have enough guys at that big DE role. 

I think I'd prefer to pass on the guy who I have positional fits for and take Nelson who I think immediately comes in and plays like a stud and improves a really bad interior offensive line. 

That's Fair. I think the only real big requirement for a LEO (at least from what I read, and in short for me) is the ability to beat a tackle one on one and holding backside contain. Stopping the run and beating tackles 1 on 1 is not an issue for Chubb as far as I can tell. He's to be a wrecking ball. He might not have the classic speed/shoulder dip profile, but he's a way better Pass rusher than Thomas was coming out AND he does it from an edge position already. Thomas had to make a transition, and although he's showing some growth, it's clearly been an issue for him. (I was also very leery of Thomas playing LEO because of that transition). 

 

My issue is Key and Landry have been really inconsistent this year. Key appears to be turning it round so if we could grab him at the top of the second or with another first in a trade back, I would be ecstatic, but I have no interest in drafting Key or Landry top ten. They haven't played like top ten talents.. 

I would be ok with Nelson in a tradeback, but not top 3, if we're picking that high I'd rather us go for an elite prospect at a prime position. Either Barkley(not prime but insane talent), Chubb, Smith (same, not prime but huge talent) or one of the OT's. I would also prefer Fitzpatrick too. However, if we traded back with say..the Browns and we could purge them of their second round picks and their 11th pick..then I'd be more interested in going Nelson. Maybe it's an outdated philosophy, but I really don't like the idea of going Guard this high when we have a ton of other gaping holes on our team. I think a case can be made that we're still weaker at Corner, Receiver, and general "Pass Rush" than we are at the interior. 

[John232]

I'll also add that this appears to be a pretty deep class on the interior line, so it just might be worth it to grab BPA this year.

 

I liked the Thomas pick, but I didn't love it. I really wanted to go Corey Davis, Adams, Hooker or Lattimore.  Not even thinking about Carradine, I really thought Armstead would be an adequate strong side end that could be platooned  with Blair, while Lynch and Dumerville manned the LEO position. Obviously that didn't happen, but I'd not go pick for need. (Granted, Thomas was pretty unanimously held up as a top 5 prospect, so not really an indictment on Lynch or Thomas). 

[Forge]

Just now, John232 said:

That's Fair. I think the only real big requirement for a LEO (at least from what I read, and in short for me) is the ability to beat a tackle one on one and holding backside contain. Stopping the run and beating tackles 1 on 1 is not an issue for Chubb as far as I can tell. He's to be a wrecking ball. He might not have the classic speed/shoulder dip profile, but he's a way better Pass rusher than Thomas was coming out AND he does it from an edge position already. Thomas had to make a transition, and although he's showing some growth, it's clearly been an issue for him. (I was also very leery of Thomas playing LEO because of that transition). 

 

My issue is Key and Landry have been really inconsistent this year. Key appears to be turning it round so if we could grab him at the top of the second or with another first in a trade back, I would be ecstatic, but I have no interest in drafting Key or Landry top ten. They haven't played like top ten talents.. 

I would be ok with Nelson in a tradeback, but not top 3, if we're picking that high I'd rather us go for an elite prospect at a prime position. Either Barkley, Chubb, Smith or one of the OT's. I would also prefer Fitzpatrick too. However, if we traded back with say..the Browns and we could purge them of their second round picks and their 11th pick..then I'd be more interested in going Nelson. Maybe it's an outdated philosophy, but I really don't like the idea of going Guard this high when we have a ton of other gaping holes on our team. I think a case can be made that we're still weaker at Corner, Receiver, and general "Pass Rush" than we are at the interior. 

I honestly probably won't have a true opinion on Chubb until the combine. I want to see his weight, and specifically, I want to see that three cone time. It's so huge for outside rushers. If he's sub 7, I'm good with it. Still doesn't mean he'd be capable of playing that role, but I'd feel more comfortable about trying it. He's definitely better than Thomas with regards to technique and overall pass rushing skill than Thomas, I would agree with that. 

Key is an interesting guy. He struggled at the beginning of the season, but had off season surgery I believe, was overweight and out of shape it looked like. Now that he's getting back in shape, he's starting to tear it up again. So I'm wondering how much teams hold it against him. I mean, on one hand, that's understandable. On the other, you don't want one of those guys that you have to monitor all the time in that way. Landry is a guy I'd take in the second. He's basically useless against the run, so he's going to be more along the pass rushing specialist role. 

With regards to Nelson - he's definitely an elite prospect. The fact that there's legit talk of him as a top 5 pick as a guard tells you a lot. I don't think that he's going to go that high, but I'm not getting cute with him. If he's worth the 7th pick (he is), he's worth the third pick. And I would rate guard as way higher on the positional value than running back, and some people, like @J-ALL-DAY, think that guard play is just as important as the tackle play. In a division with Aaron Donald and Seahawks, that's pretty valid.  IPlus, none of these tackles are  nearly as good as Nelson to be quite honest. I like McGlinchey, but he's probably a right tackle, and may even move to guard at the next level. There's no reason to draft a tackle when they are inferior prospects and it's not a requirement for this year - Brown and Staley are a solid duo. There are no elite receivers worth that high of a pick and I'd have that below guard as well. Our wide receivers are competent, and there are more appealing options in free agency...some are high on Ridley, but he's not AJ Green / Julio Jones top 5 pick type. I love Fitzpatrick, so I'm perfectly okay if we went that route instead. But make no mistake, we have one of the worst interior lines in the NFL. It is that bad and should be a super high priority into the off season. 

And just to pimp out Nelson some more...more gifs to the ones I showed earlier lol

 

[Forge]

7 minutes ago, John232 said:

I'll also add that this appears to be a pretty deep class on the interior line, so it just might be worth it to grab BPA this year.

 

I liked the Thomas pick, but I didn't love it. I really wanted to go Corey Davis, Adams, Hooker or Lattimore.  Not even thinking about Carradine, I really thought Armstead would be an adequate strong side end that could be platooned  with Blair, while Lynch and Dumerville manned the LEO position. Obviously that didn't happen, but I'd not go pick for need. (Granted, Thomas was pretty unanimously held up as a top 5 prospect, so not really an indictment on Lynch or Thomas). 

This is a valid argument. It really is a tremendously deep class for the interior. So if we went Fitzpatrick first, then interior second, I'd be okay with that, even though I'm super high bullish on Nelson. 

But as a prospect, I like him more than any receiver available, more than most pass rushers (and right now with being unclear on Chubb's fit, I'd rather nelson...that is subject to change though), and Barkley...I don't know, just can't see it. My own draft philosophy makes it really hard for me to take a running back that early, but that's entirely my own bias. I can make the case for Key > Nelson just based on upside & need, but Key is not rated as highly by me. 

For me, Nelson is just easily one of my top 5 prospects in this draft right now so he actually does fit into the BPA category, and happens to play a position we desperately need to solve, so it's a natural fit for me. But I get the hesitation at drafting a guard that early. But interior rushers are becoming a bigger and bigger deal in the NFL, so I think that guard is a position who's value has appreciated quite a lot in the more recent NFL.