2018 Draft Thread I

[J-ALL-DAY]

No clue how true it is or not, but Colin Cowherd said he's heard that the Niners are going to go offense heavy with their first four picks in the upcoming draft. Now, obviously the way draft folds will determine that, but the mindset of going mostly offense heavy is probably true. This year our top three picks were on the defensive end and next draft we need to build the offense. But if we could get a pass rusher in the first or second round, you have to look hard there. Even at a CB. 

Here's the vid:

 

[rudyZ]

20 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

No clue how true it is or not, but Colin Cowherd said he's heard that the Niners are going to go offense heavy with their first four picks in the upcoming draft. Now, obviously the way draft folds will determine that, but the mindset of going mostly offense heavy is probably true. This year our top three picks were on the defensive end and next draft we need to build the offense. But if we could get a pass rusher in the first or second round, you have to look hard there. Even at a CB. 

Here's the vid:

 

It should probably be offensive line heavy, with a possibility of a receiver, but yeah, I don't think we're going to contend without an explosive edge rusher on the team. We'll also know more about our draft strategies after free agency. I hope potential free agents are aware we have tons of money, and that they'll choose to hit the market. One free agent OL with an early pick OL would be nice. One FA DB with one rookie. 

[Forge]

43 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

It should probably be offensive line heavy, with a possibility of a receiver, but yeah, I don't think we're going to contend without an explosive edge rusher on the team. We'll also know more about our draft strategies after free agency. I hope potential free agents are aware we have tons of money, and that they'll choose to hit the market. One free agent OL with an early pick OL would be nice. One FA DB with one rookie. 

I still really want a receiver through free agency. Give me Adams or A-rob. Paired with Garcon and Taylor in the slot, Kittle...i think that's a decent receiving corps. 

[big9erfan]

G, C even OT with Staley aging - we could use all that.  WR for sure.  I'm good with our RBs but we'll need one badly if Hyde leaves.  And, I'm less sold on Kittle than almost anyone here so I'm good with TE too.  In other words anything but QB and FB.

[rudyZ]

2 hours ago, big9erfan said:

G, C even OT with Staley aging - we could use all that.  WR for sure.  I'm good with our RBs but we'll need one badly if Hyde leaves.  And, I'm less sold on Kittle than almost anyone here so I'm good with TE too.  In other words anything but QB and FB.

Yeah, Kittle has yet to real prove he should be a feature in a NFL offense. Too many easy drops. Not sure he'll be special, and definitely doesn't look like a redzone threat.

My personal priority would be C, on the o-line. A great C just helps you so much. And yeah, we'll have to look for Staley's eventual replacement. Maybe we can find someone who can slide in at G for a year or two, and when we move on from Staley, we can move Brown to LT and rookie to RT. I'm sure someone out there fills that bill. As for WR... I really really want that #1 guy. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

I wonder where we could trade back and still take Barkley if we wanted him. 

[Forge]

8 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

I wonder where we could trade back and still take Barkley if we wanted him. 

The Browns second first rounder from Houston has to be the drop dead point, I would imagine. Currently, that's slated to be in the 7-10 range (through week 12, #8).  Other teams picking earlier may be interested, a team like Indy for example, but there are other pressing needs there. Same for the Broncos. If the Jets miss out on the top 3 or so quarterbacks (they are currently sitting at 7, behind the Browns, Giants, Broncos), they would also make some sense. I could see the Bears trading down with someone like the Dolphins or Cardinals with the intent to take Barkley. So there's a lot of possibility with the picks prior to the Browns' second one, but if he's there, I can't imagine the Browns passing on him. 

Personally, I'll take Nelson over Barkley. Barkley means squaddoosh if he doesn't have a line in front of him. You can see it even now at Penn State. He's a great running back, but like pretty much all running backs, to get his true value, you're going to have to have at least a competent offensive line in front of him. We are good on the ends, but our interior is just a hot mess. 

[big9erfan]

Barkley is so different from Zeke.  Zeke gets yards on almost every carry.  He's got such great power and vision that he either finds a small crease and/or just bowls guys over.  Then add his open field speed and he is really special.  Same with a back like Fournette.  Barkley on the other hand has far too many runs for little or no gain, or even for losses, with a long gainer throw in that makes people forget how ordinary he looks most of the time.  Look closely at his game stats ... He had a 36 yarder against MSU but then 13 more carries for 27 yards;  a 69 yarder against Michigan but then 14 more carries for 39 yards; a 53 yarder against Northwestern but then 15 more carries for only 22 yards; he had a 33 yarder against Georgia State but then 9 more carries for 14 yards; he had one 36 yarder against OSU but then 20 more carries for 8 yards! That's a whole bunch of games in which he had a single breakaway play and then 71 other runs for a grand total of 110 yards! That means one breakaway run in each of those games and then 71 other rushes on which average less than a yard and a half per carry.  Add in the Rutgers game where he had 14 rushes for 35 yards and the Indiana game where hee had 20 rushes for 56 yards. There's no doubt that he's a big play waiting to happen.  But that's 7 games I listed in which he had 5 nice runs and over 100 other runs on which he didn't even average 2 yards per carry. To me that is not a recipe for a successful running game in the NFL.

I've said all along that I like him.  But I still don't see him anywhere near in the same category as Zeke or Fournette, and I don't see him as anywhere near even a top 10 pick let alone a 2nd.  I  realize I'm probably alone in this opinion.  But I've probably watched him play a dozen times and this is how he has looked to me almost every time.

[Forge]

42 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

Barkley is so different from Zeke.  Zeke gets yards on almost every carry.  He's got such great power and vision that he either finds a small crease and/or just bowls guys over.  Then add his open field speed and he is really special.  Same with a back like Fournette.  Barkley on the other hand has far too many runs for little or no gain, or even for losses, with a long gainer throw in that makes people forget how ordinary he looks most of the time.  Look closely at his game stats ... He had a 36 yarder against MSU but then 13 more carries for 27 yards;  a 69 yarder against Michigan but then 14 more carries for 39 yards; a 53 yarder against Northwestern but then 15 more carries for only 22 yards; he had a 33 yarder against Georgia State but then 9 more carries for 14 yards; he had one 36 yarder against OSU but then 20 more carries for 8 yards! That's a whole bunch of games in which he had a single breakaway play and then 71 other runs for a grand total of 110 yards! That means one breakaway run in each of those games and then 71 other rushes on which average less than a yard and a half per carry.  Add in the Rutgers game where he had 14 rushes for 35 yards and the Indiana game where hee had 20 rushes for 56 yards. There's no doubt that he's a big play waiting to happen.  But that's 7 games I listed in which he had 5 nice runs and over 100 other runs on which he didn't even average 2 yards per carry. To me that is not a recipe for a successful running game in the NFL.

I've said all along that I like him.  But I still don't see him anywhere near in the same category as Zeke or Fournette, and I don't see him as anywhere near even a top 10 pick let alone a 2nd.  I  realize I'm probably alone in this opinion.  But I've probably watched him play a dozen times and this is how he has looked to me almost every time.

I think it's fair. There's a guy in the draft forum who thinks he's all freakish athleticism and no actual running back skill (for point of comparison, I would say that Frank Gore is more skill than talent) and will bust hard, so you're not alone in not being completely up on him. I like him, and I think he's one of the better prospects in this draft, particularly given his versatility, but from a personal standpoint, I just can't take a running back in the top 5 unless he's a considerably greater talent than the rest of the people available. 

My problem, quite frankly, is that I just don't value the position that much, particularly if you don't have the offensive line to support him. To me, if you had Hyde / Breida moving forward, and improve the offensive line and passing game, that's more than enough to get you where you want to go. I consider elite running backs to be a luxury, not a requirement. Now obviously, Hyde may not come back (and quite frankly, I don't expect him to), but that's a problem to address later...as of right now, he's a 49er. 

[N4L]

Who do you guys think is going to win the Stanford USC game? Thinking about going to that tonight

[John232]

7 hours ago, big9erfan said:

Barkley is so different from Zeke.  Zeke gets yards on almost every carry.  He's got such great power and vision that he either finds a small crease and/or just bowls guys over.  Then add his open field speed and he is really special.  Same with a back like Fournette.  Barkley on the other hand has far too many runs for little or no gain, or even for losses, with a long gainer throw in that makes people forget how ordinary he looks most of the time.  Look closely at his game stats ... He had a 36 yarder against MSU but then 13 more carries for 27 yards;  a 69 yarder against Michigan but then 14 more carries for 39 yards; a 53 yarder against Northwestern but then 15 more carries for only 22 yards; he had a 33 yarder against Georgia State but then 9 more carries for 14 yards; he had one 36 yarder against OSU but then 20 more carries for 8 yards! That's a whole bunch of games in which he had a single breakaway play and then 71 other runs for a grand total of 110 yards! That means one breakaway run in each of those games and then 71 other rushes on which average less than a yard and a half per carry.  Add in the Rutgers game where he had 14 rushes for 35 yards and the Indiana game where hee had 20 rushes for 56 yards. There's no doubt that he's a big play waiting to happen.  But that's 7 games I listed in which he had 5 nice runs and over 100 other runs on which he didn't even average 2 yards per carry. To me that is not a recipe for a successful running game in the NFL.

I've said all along that I like him.  But I still don't see him anywhere near in the same category as Zeke or Fournette, and I don't see him as anywhere near even a top 10 pick let alone a 2nd.  I  realize I'm probably alone in this opinion.  But I've probably watched him play a dozen times and this is how he has looked to me almost every time.

 

 

I completely disagree with this sentiment. 100%. Actually triggered tbh.   "Barkley on the other hand has far too many runs for little or no gain"  argument is a weak foundation for your criticism when compared to Zeke. Zeke was playing behind an NFL line in college., If you put Zeke behind those same guys in the NFL right now, he probably still puts up numbers similar to last year,   Three of them are  already very good NFL starters. Not to mention he also played with other high quality NFL Talents in Michael Thomas, Braxton Miller and Curtis Samuel. It's also just not a valid criticism because that's generally speaking running backs/game flow/ statistics play out. I had AP on my fantasy team for YEARS. The guy was the kind of the 15 rushes for 45 at the half, then by the end 24 rushes for 150 yards+. Fournette and Barkley both did that.  Games play out like that, Run games are treated as a jab and I don't see why that should be held against him, especially considering how much they load the box. 

 

Barkley's line is weak af at the point of attack, Whenever I see that offense play, they are getting bowled over. He's being handed the ball, and immediately having to dodge one or two defenders. It's reminiscent of our Carlos Hyde. .I've probably watched more Penn State(Not that i'm right or my analysis is correct), but I feel Barkley is not getting much help from the line, especially as it pertains to running inside the tackles, especially between in the A gap

 

And in regards to his teammates, Barkley has maybe played with 3 or 4 other really solid pro-prospects, but none that would command the respect like that OSU offense as a whole.  Chris Godwin and Donovan Smith are like the two guys that I can think off that had some real shine. Not a whole lot. Not to mention weak QB play. Much like Fournette, he was the total offense and like Fournette, it wasn't uncommon to see games where he was getting crushed and it took them breaking long runs to have "good" stat lines. 

 

 I will concede that I think Zeke as a prospect was a better runner in between the tackles and runs with a bit more power and less dancing, but I think Barkley is one of the best Running Back's i've seen play and I would give him an Edge on Zeke. My only real criticism, and I'm not even sure how valid it is given my above complaints about Penn States line play, but I think he shows a bit of hesitation when running inside. Not bad, but similar to Joe Mixon. They'll stop their feet to look too soon to look for a cut when they just had to flow with a developing block, however, both guys have elite balance and cutting ability so they can get away with it.  Zeke is beautiful in how he runs similar to Gore, where he flows with blocks and instaed of stopping then cutting, he tends to sort..of...flow and push off in between stride, or more simply put, there is less wasted movement in Zekes game.

 

Note, also think Mixon, Zeke, barkley and Cook> Fournette. 

 

 

i'm also hitting submit after writing this, then walking away for an hour. So sorry if it's disjointed, like all my posts. 

[big9erfan]

1 hour ago, John232 said:

 

 

I completely disagree with this sentiment. 100%. Actually triggered tbh.   "Barkley on the other hand has far too many runs for little or no gain"  argument is a weak foundation for your criticism when compared to Zeke. Zeke was playing behind an NFL line in college., If you put Zeke behind those same guys in the NFL right now, he probably still puts up numbers similar to last year,   Three of them are  already very good NFL starters. Not to mention he also played with other high quality NFL Talents in Michael Thomas, Braxton Miller and Curtis Samuel. It's also just not a valid criticism because that's generally speaking running backs/game flow/ statistics play out. I had AP on my fantasy team for YEARS. The guy was the kind of the 15 rushes for 45 at the half, then by the end 24 rushes for 150 yards+. Fournette and Barkley both did that.  Games play out like that, Run games are treated as a jab and I don't see why that should be held against him, especially considering how much they load the box. 

 

Barkley's line is weak af at the point of attack, Whenever I see that offense play, they are getting bowled over. He's being handed the ball, and immediately having to dodge one or two defenders. It's reminiscent of our Carlos Hyde. .I've probably watched more Penn State(Not that i'm right or my analysis is correct), but I feel Barkley is not getting much help from the line, especially as it pertains to running inside the tackles, especially between in the A gap

 

And in regards to his teammates, Barkley has maybe played with 3 or 4 other really solid pro-prospects, but none that would command the respect like that OSU offense as a whole.  Chris Godwin and Donovan Smith are like the two guys that I can think off that had some real shine. Not a whole lot. Not to mention weak QB play. Much like Fournette, he was the total offense and like Fournette, it wasn't uncommon to see games where he was getting crushed and it took them breaking long runs to have "good" stat lines. 

 

 I will concede that I think Zeke as a prospect was a better runner in between the tackles and runs with a bit more power and less dancing, but I think Barkley is one of the best Running Back's i've seen play and I would give him an Edge on Zeke. My only real criticism, and I'm not even sure how valid it is given my above complaints about Penn States line play, but I think he shows a bit of hesitation when running inside. Not bad, but similar to Joe Mixon. They'll stop their feet to look too soon to look for a cut when they just had to flow with a developing block, however, both guys have elite balance and cutting ability so they can get away with it.  Zeke is beautiful in how he runs similar to Gore, where he flows with blocks and instaed of stopping then cutting, he tends to sort..of...flow and push off in between stride, or more simply put, there is less wasted movement in Zekes game.

 

Note, also think Mixon, Zeke, barkley and Cook> Fournette. 

 

 

i'm also hitting submit after writing this, then walking away for an hour. So sorry if it's disjointed, like all my posts. 

We all have our opinions. I know his line isn't good and maybe that explains some of what I commented on. But it doesn't change the fact that's he been unproductive on a HUGE percentage of all of his runs.  I'm just not sure what you've seen to make you think he's one of the best backs you've seen.  I just gave a detailed description of 7 full games in which he had one good run in 5 of them, none in the other two and outside of those five runs he had over 100 carries for about 200 yards. I didn't do this reaerach on Zeke or Fournette but I'd be amazed to find that either of them had only one good run in a game and then next to nothing on all the rest of their carries.  I'm not talking aouut total rushing yards but about how a running attack consisting of one breakaway run and then a dozen, or up to 20, more for next to nothing does not make a running attack work.  In fact that kind of running hurts the passing game too because instead of 2nd and 5 or 6 a team has 2nd and 10 or 11, and that's whole lot harder.  A lot of runs for little or no gain is a killer for an offense.

In addition to the 7 games I already mention you can add in Maryland, where he had a 17 yard run and then 15 other runs for 60 yards - not bad but nowhere near great. He was decent against Pit with 88 yards (contining the theme with a single 22 yard run and then a pretty ordinary 13 for 65.). But that makes and 8th and 9th games that were merely OK, nowhere near great. 

So what does that leave? He had a good game against Nebraska who isn't even  in the top 100 rushing defenses in the country. He had a good game against Akron, but Akron?  That leaves exactly one good game against a good defense all year.  That was his game against Iowa.  Maybe you saw him in that one, or maybe the Nebraska or Akron games? Because in the other 9 games he didn't look, to me at least, close to being in the same class as some of the other good runner to come out in the past few years.

[John232]

17 hours ago, big9erfan said:

But it doesn't change the fact that's he been unproductive on a HUGE percentage of all of his runs.

17 hours ago, big9erfan said:

I'm not talking aouut total rushing yards but about how a running attack consisting of one breakaway run and then a dozen, or up to 20, more for next to nothing does not make a running attack work.  In fact that kind of running hurts the passing game too because instead of 2nd and 5 or 6 a team has 2nd and 10 or 11, and that's whole lot harder.  A lot of runs for little or no gain is a killer for an offense.

And again, who's fault is this?Penn states god awful QB and Line play or their archaic wild-cat/triple option offense. And how is it Barkley's fault that their best receiving option is a TE and himself?

This seems to be the crux of your argument as to why you think he's not a special prospect. I think there is a strong case to be made that the "consistent" run games that you alluded too (below), where a back is chipping away for 5 or 6 yards a pop has more to do with the line than the back. Now, that's not say I disagree with your assessment of Fournette or Zeke. I woudl agree with those statements on them. 

On 12/1/2017 at 10:32 AM, big9erfan said:

Barkley is so different from Zeke.  Zeke gets yards on almost every carry.  He's got such great power and vision that he either finds a small crease and/or just bowls guys over.  Then add his open field speed and he is really special.

I would love to see a game ( not that i'm asking you to provide this, genuinely curious) where a back was consistently hitting 4 or 5 yards per rush, not in average, but multiple rushes getting 4 or 5 yards (which is what you want), and see HOW they did it. I would bet money that is/was as a result of the running backs line and the back not being a flaming retard/Kevan Barlow. Honestly? Off the top of my head, Gore is the only guy who did that consistently for years,  and he's going to be in the HOF. 

17 hours ago, big9erfan said:

 I'm just not sure what you've seen to make you think he's one of the best backs you've seen

This is always tricky because it becomes our amateur interpretations of what we see. (this could apply for the above retort as well)  

Because what I see when I watch is a  a 230 pound back with elite speed, cutting, balance ( super elite when considering his size), receiving and blocking. With very good power and vision. This Regularly shows up on Film. Compared to, Fournette, with insane power and balance, would regularly slam into the backs of his offensive lineman instead of waiting for holes to develop. He gets away with this because he's a physical freak. Or Cook who had elite vision,  balance, 3rd down skills and cutting ability but doesn't really have elite power or elite speed (albeit above average in both of these). 

 

17 hours ago, big9erfan said:

  I just gave a detailed description of 7 full games in which he had one good run in 5 of them, none in the other two and outside of those five runs he had over 100 carries for about 200 yards

This was hardly detailed, and it's a Cherry Picking fallacy since you're omitting the best part of these "disappointing"  games for him. Games where h breaks huge runs to "make up" his yards, so to speak, but holding the negatives against him when there could be a litany of factors contributing to these poor statistical outputs.  Furthermore, you've completely ignored his receiving ability, which is a huge part of his game,  a huge omission, especially when the whole basis of your argument is based not just on volume stats, but specifically as it pertains to the output of a series of runs within a specific point in each of those aforementioned games. Again, not taking into account game flow, receiving, defense being played, and in general situation football.

 

in fact, I would say that a guy who is able to consistently bust for a huge plays is actually a GOOD thing. Not something to be held against him. Hyde is great at consistently getting yards, but the guy rarely bursts huge runs down the field. And honestly, I get tired of it. He helps the offense a ton, but he doesn't have that ability to take a run 75 yards  in the blink of an eye. Barkley has shown that time, and time, and time again. 

 

17 hours ago, big9erfan said:

I didn't do this reaerach on Zeke or Fournette but I'd be amazed to find that either of them had only one good run in a game and then next to nothing on all the rest of their carries. 

Statistically speaking, Barkley has had 3 games with under a 4.0 ypc and in two of those games, he had pretty good receiving numbers. Of those three games, One of those games was against Ohio State who probably has the most talented defense in the country outside of Bama. I watched that game. it was ugly and in no way indicative of Barkley because OSU was bursting through the line all game. Again, be  The Rutgers game ( I did not watch, and now plan too), statistically is the only awful game I can see statistically. But that can be as a result of game-flow. Fournette for example had two awful games in his senior season against Alabama and Florida. Worse than any game Barkley put up this year. Even Zeke who put up crazy RUSHING numbers at OSU still had a bad game against michigan state and to your point, had an 80 yard run against VT which made for 66% of his yards. Which might be a solid game by your standards if you're going to take away their biggest run and hold it against them, but I still consider that pretty awesome.  I also can't stress this enough, Barkley's numbers receiving>>>>>Fournette and Zeke. 

 

Also, please note the difference in the amount of carries. Barkley has had 3 games with over 20 carries this year. Zeke had 3 games UNDER 20 carries. Another missing point when you're talking about raw rushing numbers. 

17 hours ago, big9erfan said:

In addition to the 7 games I already mention you can add in Maryland, where he had a 17 yard run and then 15 other runs for 60 yards - not bad but nowhere near great. He was decent against Pit with 88 yards (contining the theme with a single 22 yard run and then a pretty ordinary 13 for 65.). But that makes and 8th and 9th games that were merely OK, nowhere near great

 

So for example, the Pitt game. Here's what he did. (might be missing some of his returns. Lets look at the tape and see  his inconsistency which hurts the run game.

 

• (11:34 - 1st) Saquon Barkley run for 3 yds to the PnSt 45
• (8:03 - 1st) Saquon Barkley run for 8 yds to the PnSt 46
• (7:27 - 1st) Trace McSorley pass complete to Saquon Barkley for no gain to the PnSt 46 https://youtu.be/cU2if70vnFk?t=74
• (6:04 - 1st) Saquon Barkley run for 3 yds to the Pitt 15 (Makes a guy miss in the back field to get 3 yards,  but 3 yards is bad) 
• (8:35 - 2nd) Saquon Barkley run for a loss of 3 yards to the PnSt 38 (Next time he gets the ball...game flow... guys in the backfield upon receiving the delayed hand off) https://youtu.be/cU2if70vnFk?t=101.
• (1:12 - 2nd) Saquon Barkley run for 11 yds to the PnSt 36 for a 1ST down
• End of Half 
• (14:55 - 3rd) Saquon Barkley run for 17 yds to the PnSt 42 for a 1ST down
• (14:31 - 3rd) Saquon Barkley run for 11 yds to the Pitt 47 for a 1ST down
• (12:57 - 3rd) Saquon Barkley run for a loss of 5 yards to the Pitt 48 https://youtu.be/cU2if70vnFk?t=148 (Another awful play, hit as he gets the ball, poor blocking)
• (10:32 - 3rd) Trace McSorley pass complete to Saquon Barkley for 46 yds for a TD, (Tyler Davis KICK)
• (2:13 - 3rd) Saquon Barkley run for 22 yds to the Pitt 44 for a 1ST down PITTSBURGH Penalty, Horse Collar Tackle (15 Yards) to the Pitt 41 for a 1ST down
• (2:04 - 3rd) Saquon Barkley run for 11 yds to the Pitt 30 for a 1ST down
• (0:00 - 3rd) Saquon Barkley run for 2 yds to the Pitt 8
• (14:54 - 4th) Saquon Barkley run for 8 yds for a TD, (Tyler Davis KICK)
• (10:09 - 4th) Alex Kessman kickoff for 60 yds , Saquon Barkley return for 18 yds to the PnSt 23
• (10:03 - 4th) Trace McSorley pass complete to Saquon Barkley for 3 yds to the PnSt 26 (Check down)
• (9:24 - 4th) Trace McSorley pass complete to Saquon Barkley for a loss of 4 yards to the PnSt 22https://youtu.be/cU2if70vnFk?t=326 (Pass thrown 6 yards behind the LOS with no blockers, hit right after catching, but again, no blocking on this screen pass)
• (8:09 - 4th) Saquon Barkley run for a loss of 5 yards to the PnSt 40  (They missed this carry, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was awful) 
• (5:53 - 4th) Alex Kessman kickoff for 67 yds , Saquon Barkley return for 32 yds to the PENNST 48 PITTSBURGH Penalty, Personal Foul (-15 Yards) to the Pitt 40
• (3:57 - 4th) Saquon Barkley run for 5 yds to the Pitt 6

 

So i'm not going to do this for every game with you. But this is a game you say he was ok. I just watched every touch of his with the one listed exception, I didn't a single bad thing he did outside of MAYBE...MAYBE showing a bit better vision on some of the delayed inside runs, but even then, I feel like i'm stretching to meet you half way. 

17 hours ago, big9erfan said:

So what does that leave? He had a good game against Nebraska who isn't even  in the top 100 rushing defenses in the country. He had a good game against Akron, but Akron?  That leaves exactly one good game against a good defense all year.  That was his game against Iowa.  Maybe you saw him in that one, or maybe the Nebraska or Akron games? Because in the other 9 games he didn't look, to me at least, close to being in the same class as some of the other good runner to come out in the past few years

You're looking at box scores and not his touches. So I don't know what that leaves for you. I just grabbed one of the games you brought up, you said it was ok for him. I just watched it and he looked dominant. If stats are the basis of your argument in not only saying he's not as good a prospect as Zeke or Fournette (which is a fair opinion I might add) but not the same league, that's just narrow sighted and ignoring every other factor when analyzing a prospect. Based on the logic you just used Timmy Chang should have been considered a top QB prospect coming out of Hawaii because he has amazing numbers. Or for a more recent comparison, Mason Rudolph might be the best QB prospect since Luck. 

 

It's a joke to say he's not in the same class. I'll make the mistake of subscribing to a higher authority, But when you have multiple scouting sites like PFF, locked on, and other Guys I trust like Daniel Jeremiah all basically saying "yeah, he's uh..he's got no holes to his game"...it's comes off as hot-takish but not based in any actual research or scouting. There's a reason everyone is saying this. When you watch him play, he does amazing things with the ball in his hands. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rudyZ]

I nominate John for the 2017 Don't argue with y2 because he'll come back with a long post filled with stats award.

I haven't really watched any of Barkley's game this year, but based on the arguments presented here today, I'm siding with John. Much like his opinion of Saquon, his argument has much fewer holes in its game.

[John232]

1 hour ago, rudyZ said:

I nominate John for the 2017 Don't argue with y2 because he'll come back with a long post filled with stats award.

I haven't really watched any of Barkley's game this year, but based on the arguments presented here today, I'm siding with John. Much like his opinion of Saquon, his argument has much fewer holes in its game.

lol. ALL that said, I would rather we not spend a top 5 pick on him. If we traded back and Nelson was nabbed for whatever reason, I would really want us to go after him. He would be a picture perfect scheme fit for us. I know that shanny's might not like investing high picks into RB's, but with the evolution of the modern passing game, having a guy like Barkley who might already possess elite receiving skills is a huge huge plus. 

Picture Barkley doing what Hyde is doing in the receiving game, his numbers would be huge.