Raiders expected to hire Tom Telesco as the GM

[Jerry]

On 6/6/2024 at 1:24 PM, Bitty 2.0 said:

Is tricky with AP because the players love him, they have to get sick of him or there going to revolt

They have to get sick of losing.  And that can happen pretty quickly.  No matter how much you like someone, if they can't do the job, you at least understand why they're turning to another coach.  AP will probably coach through his entire contract, but he may not be extended if he can't produce.  Especially when we get our QB.

[NCOUGHMAN]

On 6/5/2024 at 12:59 PM, ronjon1990 said:

I'll follow the assumption that QB was our first choice in the draft and that we were merely seeking a mentor/bridge QB- so Kirk is off the table. 

In order of preference, I would've gone:

Brissett- chose familiarity 

Browning- I don't think Cincy was letting him get away

Mariota- Particularly if we'd kept Kingsbury. I like the schematic fit and Mariota knows a couple of the guys. He catches flack for his Atlanta stint, but look how that entire garbage dump ultimately worked out. I would've taken my ball home too. Better fit with Kingsbury than Getsy, imo, though he probably had a better chance starting here than Washington. 

Minshew- I like Minshew. Totally cool with the signing for what it is. 

Lock- why not? I feel like he's never gotten the absolute opportunity. Denver was a mess and thought they were getting Mr. Unlimited, and Seattle had a guy in place already. Potential may still exist, but he's bottom of my list. 

 

In that case, I think Minshew was the best we could get, and I don't mean that as a knock. Can't complain about Brissett choosing to go back to New England, can't control the Bengals, and Mariota chose the better fit. 

 

Of the guys available, there was no need to throw big money at any of them in our current situation. We weren't looking for a starter, we just missed our shot on draft day. 

I, for one, am glad we didn't go after a Fields or Lance or Winston. We aren't trying to find gold in another's trash. Those are guys you bring on if you want to make a 3 year commitment to give them every shot. They aren't particularly great or proven backups. Minshew is. He can be just a backup QB, and nobody is calling for him to get 2-3 years to prove himself, meaning we're not resigned to QB purgatory. 

The only other moves I may have made:

A. No Minshew, sign Flacco if we were intent on rolling with AOC long term. I think Flacco would be a great mentor for him considering their similar styles. Only problem is Flacco is clearly year to year, if even, and how much can a guy learn in such little time. 

B. I would've sent a 3rd or 4th to Houston for Davis Mills if he was made available. I thought he did a phenomenal job as a rookie given the circumstances. Being benched in favor of CJ Stroud is no major knock. I think Mills, on a decent offense, could be the next Minshew type or even slightly better. 

For me, the Minshew, Flacco, or Mills routes are a 1a, 1b, 1c type of thing though. 

I watched chi vs den 2023 yesterday and I honestly couldn’t tell if it was the getsy offense or fields mobility and they still lost after going up 28-3 iirc. Gonna be interesting 

[ronjon1990]

10 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I watched chi vs den 2023 yesterday and I honestly couldn’t tell if it was the getsy offense or fields mobility and they still lost after going up 28-3 iirc. Gonna be interesting 

There's a not too short list of OCs and QB coaches that Aaron Rodgers made look spectacular who never did a single notable thing once they left GB. 

Philbin, McAdoo, Clements, Van Pelt, Hustler, Cignetti, Bennett, Hackett, Getsy. 

I think the likelihood that neither Getsy nor Fields are cut out for their jobs is better than either one of them being the real deal held back by the other. 

I think that sort of par for the course when looking at OCs and QB coaches who basically run on autopilot with a legit HOF QB. We've seen McDaniels without Brady on enough occasions now to say it was Brady. The GB constant was Rodgers. A lot of people said for years that Bienemy deserved a HC shot and he couldn't last more than a year away from Mahomes before he was sent packing as an assistant in the college ranks. Byron Leftwich is now 2 seasons without a job in the league and he was getting HC in waiting hype just 3 years ago. Pete Carmichael spent almost his entire NFL coaching career following Drew Brees around. Joe Lombardi has proven to be pretty crap without Brees as well. 

I think it's pretty rare that you see a great OC/QBC and QB at the same time. One usually makes the other, and it's usually the player. You might see a guy luck into back to back solid or better QBs from time to time, but these guys who cut their teeth with a HOF caliber QB usually represent a tale of extremes without them. We're not usually seeing a guy leave a Hall of Fame QB and build up another or even a Hall of Very Good type, rather we usually see them head off and crap the bed with a revolving door of bad QB play before the plug is pulled. 

I don't have high hopes for Getsy. I'll be surprised if he's even mediocre. He wasn't our target to begin with, he was the last guy reasonably available after the Kingsbury Affair, so I don't even feel guilty thinking Gesty might even be one and done here unless he really shines. Chances are he's not the OC we ultimately associate with the rise of our QBOTF, even if he's back next year. I'm not really even worried about it all since it's not like we were all in in Getsy to start with. We know what happened. Now he either shows out in a big way or he gets canned. No skin off my back really, and it's not a move that makes me high or low on our FO given the circumstances. 

Happy accident or business as usual at this point. 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

6 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

There's a not too short list of OCs and QB coaches that Aaron Rodgers made look spectacular who never did a single notable thing once they left GB. 

Philbin, McAdoo, Clements, Van Pelt, Hustler, Cignetti, Bennett, Hackett, Getsy. 

I think the likelihood that neither Getsy nor Fields are cut out for their jobs is better than either one of them being the real deal held back by the other. 

I think that sort of par for the course when looking at OCs and QB coaches who basically run on autopilot with a legit HOF QB. We've seen McDaniels without Brady on enough occasions now to say it was Brady. The GB constant was Rodgers. A lot of people said for years that Bienemy deserved a HC shot and he couldn't last more than a year away from Mahomes before he was sent packing as an assistant in the college ranks. Byron Leftwich is now 2 seasons without a job in the league and he was getting HC in waiting hype just 3 years ago. Pete Carmichael spent almost his entire NFL coaching career following Drew Brees around. Joe Lombardi has proven to be pretty crap without Brees as well. 

I think it's pretty rare that you see a great OC/QBC and QB at the same time. One usually makes the other, and it's usually the player. You might see a guy luck into back to back solid or better QBs from time to time, but these guys who cut their teeth with a HOF caliber QB usually represent a tale of extremes without them. We're not usually seeing a guy leave a Hall of Fame QB and build up another or even a Hall of Very Good type, rather we usually see them head off and crap the bed with a revolving door of bad QB play before the plug is pulled. 

I don't have high hopes for Getsy. I'll be surprised if he's even mediocre. He wasn't our target to begin with, he was the last guy reasonably available after the Kingsbury Affair, so I don't even feel guilty thinking Gesty might even be one and done here unless he really shines. Chances are he's not the OC we ultimately associate with the rise of our QBOTF, even if he's back next year. I'm not really even worried about it all since it's not like we were all in in Getsy to start with. We know what happened. Now he either shows out in a big way or he gets canned. No skin off my back really, and it's not a move that makes me high or low on our FO given the circumstances. 

Happy accident or business as usual at this point. 

 

Basically yea lol

unless aoc is willing to extend plays Imo it will look a lot like jmd’s plays. 

[big_palooka]

35 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Basically yea lol

unless aoc is willing to extend plays Imo it will look a lot like jmd’s plays. 

I don't follow. Why would it look like JMD's plays? It's not the same offense. Getsy's offense doesn't rely on the QB to extend plays. His offensive roots can be traced back to Mike McCarthy/Shanahan roots. Quick read, timing based passing with zone running schemes.

To further the point, Adams loves the Getsy offense which he's played in it. He said the JMD offense held them back because it's a nickel and dime offense that relies to heavily on the QB to operate. 

[ronjon1990]

52 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I don't follow. Why would it look like JMD's plays? It's not the same offense. Getsy's offense doesn't rely on the QB to extend plays. His offensive roots can be traced back to Mike McCarthy/Shanahan roots. Quick read, timing based passing with zone running schemes.

To further the point, Adams loves the Getsy offense which he's played in it. He said the JMD offense held them back because it's a nickel and dime offense that relies to heavily on the QB to operate. 

I think he means it'll look like JMD's offense in that without a great QB running it, it looks janky and dysfunctional. 

Which, I can agree. We've seen Getsy's offense look good one time- with Aaron Rodgers as his QB. I don't care how much Adams likes the scheme, there isn't a scheme in this league that looks good on a regular basis with mediocre QB play. Even Shanahan's offense has looked trashy when the likes of Beathard, Mullens, and Darnold were thrown in there. 

Again, that's not even to say we wouldn't be over the moon with Getsy's offense if we landed the right QB in it. After all, we've seen it look very good, if not dominant before. But we don't have a HOF QB on the roster at the moment and I sincerely doubt Getsy conjures one up. For what it's worth, I'd feel generally the same about any OC right now because of our QB situation. 

We land the right guy and Getsy's still here in 2026, could be a whole different conversation. But Getsy's Offense run by journeymen and backup QBs....yeah I think the takeaway impression is that it looks just as labored as JMD's offense did. 

 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

I think he means it'll look like JMD's offense in that without a great QB running it, it looks janky and dysfunctional. 

Which, I can agree. We've seen Getsy's offense look good one time- with Aaron Rodgers as his QB. I don't care how much Adams likes the scheme, there isn't a scheme in this league that looks good on a regular basis with mediocre QB play. Even Shanahan's offense has looked trashy when the likes of Beathard, Mullens, and Darnold were thrown in there. 

Again, that's not even to say we wouldn't be over the moon with Getsy's offense if we landed the right QB in it. After all, we've seen it look very good, if not dominant before. But we don't have a HOF QB on the roster at the moment and I sincerely doubt Getsy conjures one up. For what it's worth, I'd feel generally the same about any OC right now because of our QB situation. 

We land the right guy and Getsy's still here in 2026, could be a whole different conversation. But Getsy's Offense run by journeymen and backup QBs....yeah I think the takeaway impression is that it looks just as labored as JMD's offense did. 

 

I see what you're saying. And yes, that's true with most OCs. You're only as good as your QB. To your point, we've seen a lot of offensive coaches crumble when they lose their QB situation at a new job. With exception of guys like Shane Steichen who seems to elevate the QB play and the team they were with gets worse once they leave. Those guys are rare. 

[ronjon1990]

12 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I see what you're saying. And yes, that's true with most OCs. You're only as good as your QB. To your point, we've seen a lot of offensive coaches crumble when they lose their QB situation at a new job. With exception of guys like Shane Steichen who seems to elevate the QB play and the team they were with gets worse once they leave. Those guys are rare. 

Yep. 

That said, I'm a fan of systems. I think you stand a better chance of establishing a system and then finding a QB who fits. 

I think a lot of people want the QB first and to go find a system that suits them. Problem there is most teams are impatient and if they think X QB is the guy they'll spend 4, 5 years cycling through people left and right before eating the L on the QB. 

If Getsy's offense looks sound (blocking gels, play calling makes sense regardless of whether a play works out or not, guys get open even if they don't get the ball) we're in good shape. AOC/Minshew are handicaps unless they show otherwise. But if the offense is sound, we go find the QB who best fits it. 

I prefer that to picking Caleb or firmly committing to AOC and then seeking a system out for them. 

There's only 32 OCs in the league and not a new group of 3, 4, 5 guys guaranteed to come along almost every year. Much easier to change QB than to make the entire offense learn a new scheme. 

Getsy doesn't really excite me because he seems a bit vanilla. But, Chicago's offense had some ok qualities with him running it. Who's to say he doesn't look pretty good with, say, Carr or Geno or Mayfield running it? Not great, not putrid. It looked amazing with a Hall of Famer, it looked like trash with Fields. I think both make sense and would naturally have an outsized effect on it as the QB. But I seem to recall his run schemes and RB usage was pretty solid and I don't remember blocking being horrid (outside of Fields going off script too often). 

Getsy's positives are something you can be skeptical about, but his negatives are all fairly excusable imo. Barring a surprise breakout, I'm not really even interested in our QB play since it seems a foregone conclusion we're going QB in round 1 next year. But the other aspects of the offense are on the radar. In that regard, he's a pretty clean slate for me. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I don't follow. Why would it look like JMD's plays? It's not the same offense. Getsy's offense doesn't rely on the QB to extend plays. His offensive roots can be traced back to Mike McCarthy/Shanahan roots. Quick read, timing based passing with zone running schemes.

To further the point, Adams loves the Getsy offense which he's played in it. He said the JMD offense held them back because it's a nickel and dime offense that relies to heavily on the QB to operate. 

Like what Ron said. Getsy vs den looked super predictable similar to jmd. The sets are old school imo not a lot of modern concepts. All the runs plays are predictable. Imo adams liked the qb more than the coach. We don’t have a qb like Rodgers and Getsy doesn’t seem like the type to develop a young qb. I hope I’m wrong but I think Gardner will have better luck than aoc in this offense purely on the experience aspect 

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

I think he means it'll look like JMD's offense in that without a great QB running it, it looks janky and dysfunctional. 

Which, I can agree. We've seen Getsy's offense look good one time- with Aaron Rodgers as his QB. I don't care how much Adams likes the scheme, there isn't a scheme in this league that looks good on a regular basis with mediocre QB play. Even Shanahan's offense has looked trashy when the likes of Beathard, Mullens, and Darnold were thrown in there. 

Again, that's not even to say we wouldn't be over the moon with Getsy's offense if we landed the right QB in it. After all, we've seen it look very good, if not dominant before. But we don't have a HOF QB on the roster at the moment and I sincerely doubt Getsy conjures one up. For what it's worth, I'd feel generally the same about any OC right now because of our QB situation. 

We land the right guy and Getsy's still here in 2026, could be a whole different conversation. But Getsy's Offense run by journeymen and backup QBs....yeah I think the takeaway impression is that it looks just as labored as JMD's offense did. 

 

Yup 

[Darbsk]

14 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

There's a not too short list of OCs and QB coaches that Aaron Rodgers made look spectacular who never did a single notable thing once they left GB. 

Philbin, McAdoo, Clements, Van Pelt, Hustler, Cignetti, Bennett, Hackett, Getsy. 

I think the likelihood that neither Getsy nor Fields are cut out for their jobs is better than either one of them being the real deal held back by the other. 

I think that sort of par for the course when looking at OCs and QB coaches who basically run on autopilot with a legit HOF QB. We've seen McDaniels without Brady on enough occasions now to say it was Brady. The GB constant was Rodgers. A lot of people said for years that Bienemy deserved a HC shot and he couldn't last more than a year away from Mahomes before he was sent packing as an assistant in the college ranks. Byron Leftwich is now 2 seasons without a job in the league and he was getting HC in waiting hype just 3 years ago. Pete Carmichael spent almost his entire NFL coaching career following Drew Brees around. Joe Lombardi has proven to be pretty crap without Brees as well. 

I think it's pretty rare that you see a great OC/QBC and QB at the same time. One usually makes the other, and it's usually the player. You might see a guy luck into back to back solid or better QBs from time to time, but these guys who cut their teeth with a HOF caliber QB usually represent a tale of extremes without them. We're not usually seeing a guy leave a Hall of Fame QB and build up another or even a Hall of Very Good type, rather we usually see them head off and crap the bed with a revolving door of bad QB play before the plug is pulled. 

I don't have high hopes for Getsy. I'll be surprised if he's even mediocre. He wasn't our target to begin with, he was the last guy reasonably available after the Kingsbury Affair, so I don't even feel guilty thinking Gesty might even be one and done here unless he really shines. Chances are he's not the OC we ultimately associate with the rise of our QBOTF, even if he's back next year. I'm not really even worried about it all since it's not like we were all in in Getsy to start with. We know what happened. Now he either shows out in a big way or he gets canned. No skin off my back really, and it's not a move that makes me high or low on our FO given the circumstances. 

Happy accident or business as usual at this point. 

 

Some great points here. This is why I always look at and look for coordinators and coaches whose teams or units perform greater than the sum of their parts or outperform their talent.

It’s relatively easy to get suckered in by flashy stats and performances when they’re tied to a HoF QB or an All Pro. Who can get the most out of a Jared Goff or a Derek Carr? Who makes an Alex Smith look good or succeeds despite the lack of talent? That’s the guys I want.

[bucksavage1]

Most people were lukewarm about the Telesco hire

”Meh” 

[Jerry]

3 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Most people were lukewarm about the Telesco hire

”Meh” 

I'm okay with him so far.  I would be happy if we found 3 solid starters every year.  After 8 years of averaging 3 new starters per year the entire Raiders starting roster would have been found in the draft, which would be pretty impressive.  Just need to find a way to hold onto those players and keep them under contract if they're good.