Kyle Shanahan

[Soggust]

2 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Down by 10pts with everything I just said he made the plays to win the game. And the irony of it all was McVay believed that Goff wouldnt have been able to do the same bc he saw that same picture in the Superbowl a few years prior in a close game 3-3 heading into the 4th with so much happening against the Pats Goff couldnt find a way to still win. He needed an upgrade to a difference maker in Stafford to do so and he was right.

So, by this logic, does that mean Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Nick Foles were all difference makers because they were able to win a Super Bowl when Tony Banks and Shaun King and rookie Wentz couldn't?

 

2 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

I cant pretend to think I know how Purdy is going to be moving forward. Its easy to say he is going to only continue to get better and better bc look how he started his career. But if I had to really guess I think he will get a little better but thats it. His ceiling isnt through the roof. What we see right now is just about what we get. 

Not sure I agree here.

Wouldn't a 7th round pick, on average, have a more room for growth than a first round prospect because they are, theoretically, much less NFL ready? Otherwise, they might be higher round picks?

*obviously there are exceptions for first round projects like Lamar where you are completely relying on their physical skillsets, but Trevor Lawrence, who's shown less than stellar growth over 3 years, might be a good extreme comp in this scenario*

I do think it's likely Brock will take a step back QB rating wise, because a 113 or whatever is not a reasonable expectation, but I do think it's still possible he improves his yardage and TD:INT ratio.

[Soggust]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

I mean, CMC had fumbled three times all year. Dropped passes happen.

And if they were playing a different position we would be talking about how CMC, Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle are choke artists who can't handle the big moment.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

I don't know how things such as dropped passes or fumbles is a reflection on coaching. That's letting the players get away with relatively little accountability. I mean, CMC had fumbled three times all year. Dropped passes happen. A future hall of famer in Trent Williams killed a drive basically all on his own...like that's just a thing that happened and I'm not sure there is much Shanny can do about it. 

Players aren't robots and they aren't perfect. 

There are some miscues that I think can reflect on coaching for sure, but a lot of that is also just freak accidents. 

Furthermore, there was 7 fumbles in this game, and KC recovered 6 of them.

KC was a wildly undisciplined team all year long, and they had something like 3-4 penalties IIRC.

Sometimes the ball just bounces your way, repeatedly. That kind of just explains this entire playoff run for KC. They existed for 3 quarters and the ball just kept bouncing their way over and over again until it got clutch time and Mahomes and Reid were able to deliver in back to back games.

1 hour ago, Forge said:

Like, I think there's merit to what @AFlaccoSeagulls said about the complexity of that third and 4 call in overtime resulting in a blown blocking assignment by a backup guard. I think you can lay that at the feet of Shanny. I think having Kittle in the backfield on the third and 5 against a likely blitz is probably not ideal compared to having CMC back there (I get that he probably just wanted CMC running his route because that's your best play maker and the guy that is most likely going to move the chains for you) 

Thing about that last play, though:

1. You're expecting a backup RG to execute a complicated block within a complicated play from an OL standpoint. I get that it's the NFL, but again contrast that with what Andy Reid was asking guys to do on their GW play and it's a wild difference.
2. CMC didn't even run a route on the last play. He was a decoy with the jet sweep motion
3. Kittle blocked as well

And despite all of that, the play was actually open if the block was executed correctly. Aiyuk destroyed his guy, and Jennings was also wide open. The RG missed his block and that was that.

[squire12]

21 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Furthermore, there was 7 fumbles in this game, and KC recovered 6 of them.

KC was a wildly undisciplined team all year long, and they had something like 3-4 penalties IIRC.

Sometimes the ball just bounces your way, repeatedly. That kind of just explains this entire playoff run for KC. They existed for 3 quarters and the ball just kept bouncing their way over and over again until it got clutch time and Mahomes and Reid were able to deliver in back to back games.

SF certainly benefited in the "lucky bounces of the ball" vs GB and DET.  Might be a case where the averages balanced back out.  Pick any 1 of several of those bounces vs GB or Detroit and SF very likely isn't playing in the super bowl

[stl4life07]

4 hours ago, Soggust said:

So, by this logic, does that mean Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Nick Foles were all difference makers because they were able to win a Super Bowl when Tony Banks and Shaun King and rookie Wentz couldn't?

 

Not sure I agree here.

Wouldn't a 7th round pick, on average, have a more room for growth than a first round prospect because they are, theoretically, much less NFL ready? Otherwise, they might be higher round picks?

*obviously there are exceptions for first round projects like Lamar where you are completely relying on their physical skillsets, but Trevor Lawrence, who's shown less than stellar growth over 3 years, might be a good extreme comp in this scenario*

I do think it's likely Brock will take a step back QB rating wise, because a 113 or whatever is not a reasonable expectation, but I do think it's still possible he improves his yardage and TD:INT ratio.

Back then when Dilfer and Johnson won the Superbowl you know it wasnt a QB friendly league. Teams could win with their dominant running game and dominant defense. You do realize that Bucs team and that Ravens team had two of the best defenses that we've seen ever? Foles had a Superbowl performance that was historic too. 

Logically when a player is drafted later in the draft he has a ton of flaws. His upside isnt as high unless his flaws is medical or that he has a ton of potential but is super raw so nobody knows if he will ever reach it but they take a chance late in the draft in hopes he does. 

With Purdy I do think he will get a little better but I dont think he will get strides better to where we think of him in a top 5 QB range. Now two things can be true. He can look really good with the weapons he has in Kyle system. The Niners do draft well so even if they start to lose guys like Kittle and Deebo down the road due to getting older or if they cant keep Aiyuk due to him wanting alot of money then the Niners need to hit on players to keep that side of the ball top tier for Purdy. In other words I dont think Purdy can elevate a 5th round rookie receiver to levels Stafford did Puka. Or I dont think Purdy can take a less than ideal receiving group like Mahomes did his receivers and still manage to make it work and win Superbowls. He is going to need a strong supporting cast around him. And if by some chance he doesnt have a guy like Kyle then I do expect a Kaepernick and Jimmy G fall off when Kaepernick no longer had Harbaugh/Roman and Jimmy G no longer had Kyle. But hey the beautiful thing about the NFL is Purdy can prove me wrong moving forward. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

12 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Question is, do you feel confident in Kyle/Purdy eventually getting over the hump and winning a Superbowl?

For me I think this year was their best shot. They will never have a better roster than they have currently. Plus they didnt have the injuries that a Niners team usually have due to their physical nature. The NFC wasnt as good and even this Chiefs team was weaker. They only scored 3pts in the 1st half and 1st halves were supposed to be their best half bc they typically struggle to score in the 2nd half of games.

Im not suggesting the Niners have a revolving door at QB. But its ok to pivot if you think you can only do so much with what you have. Yes Purdy was in the MVP talks, but you know who was also in the MVP talks? Wentz in 2017 but that didnt equate to anything for him in his career. 

Yes I do, because the operation that the 49ers run is a good one. It might not be with this core of 49ers players, but like Cower won with a different core of players later on, he can do it because the franchise is all on the same page. 49ers were already on the brink before Purdy came along, and now they have the best triggerman since Kyle has been the head coach. They've gotten just as far when the NFC was stronger, and the AFC opponent was stronger almost winning it then. Kyle is only 44 years old, and can easily coach for another 20. 

Wentz falling off a cliff after being in MVP talks is an outlier. I could name many other quarterbacks that were either MVP, or in MVP talks, and continued to play well moving forward. Wentz also had a hideous injury, and was never the same. That can happen to any player so that's not a reason to be apprehensive going forward. Purdy had a freak injury, and looked better without a training camp. 

49ers need to simply do a better job at getting guys that aren't a liability at pass blocking, no matter how good they are at run blocking. 

Edited February 15 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Leoric]

Kyle Shanahan is doing for Brock Purdy what Andy Reid did for Donovan McNabb. Purdy is a really good quarterback in the situation he is in. I would not trust him to replicate it in a whole lot of other situations though. He’s not going to Chicago and carrying that team on his back. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

43 minutes ago, Leoric said:

Kyle Shanahan is doing for Brock Purdy what Andy Reid did for Donovan McNabb. Purdy is a really good quarterback in the situation he is in. I would not trust him to replicate it in a whole lot of other situations though. He’s not going to Chicago and carrying that team on his back. 

Maybe, but who cares? Steve Young couldn't carry the hapless Buccaneers. Hall of Famer. Herbie has spent four seasons on the Chargers, and the team has been hideous. 

49ers won't be held back by the QB position if the last season, and a half is what we can expect moving forward. He's meeting a baseline where if the 49ers can't win a championship, then the 49ers failed irrespective of play at the QB position. 

Edited February 15 by TecmoSuperJoe

[notthatbluestuff]

 

[stl4life07]

On 2/14/2024 at 11:17 PM, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Yes I do, because the operation that the 49ers run is a good one. It might not be with this core of 49ers players, but like Cower won with a different core of players later on, he can do it because the franchise is all on the same page. 49ers were already on the brink before Purdy came along, and now they have the best triggerman since Kyle has been the head coach. They've gotten just as far when the NFC was stronger, and the AFC opponent was stronger almost winning it then. Kyle is only 44 years old, and can easily coach for another 20. 

Wentz falling off a cliff after being in MVP talks is an outlier. I could name many other quarterbacks that were either MVP, or in MVP talks, and continued to play well moving forward. Wentz also had a hideous injury, and was never the same. That can happen to any player so that's not a reason to be apprehensive going forward. Purdy had a freak injury, and looked better without a training camp. 

49ers need to simply do a better job at getting guys that aren't a liability at pass blocking, no matter how good they are at run blocking. 

I can see Kyle eventually getting over the hump. Im not certain it will be with Purdy though. I truly think eventually Kyle is going to have to go the McVay route or even the Reid route and say there is only so much you can do with the QBs they have worked with that they need a Stafford or Mahomes to do so. Yes Stafford wasnt Superbowl successful in Detroit. Mahomes wasnt even a winning QB in Texas Tech and had alot of issues coming out thats why he fell in the draft. But nobody doubted their raw talent from the QB. That aw factor that can change games. All they need was real structure. Reid was that real structure for Mahomes and the way the Chiefs organization ran. McVay was that real structure for Stafford and the way the Rams organization ran. So I trust the Niners organization being ran with draft picks, bringing in talent, and coaching. And I know Kyle tried to do it with giving up alot for Lance in the draft but to me it felt half way. I think Kyle really wanted Stafford and missed out. From hearing Peter Schreger talk about the process. Kyle was 2 minutes away in another hotel from McVay he was watching film of Stafford and was told by agent that nothing was going to happen just be patient. Only for the breaking news that the Rams traded for Stafford. So I think it really hurt Kyle that he didnt get Stafford. So then he went and got Lance. It didnt work out and he pulled out quick to move on. Purdy is a revelation but again I feel like he can only take the Niners so far. Jimmy G had far less to work with on offense than Purdy did in the Superbowl and was in the same position to beat a more explosive Chiefs team that had Hill and Kelce. You can say both games Kyle had the same issue. He stopped running the ball. That day with Mostert and this game with CMC. And Jimmy G had his shot and never got back despite getting to an NFCCG. We will see how far Purdy can take the Niners again.

MVP conversation has its variables. You right Wentz is an outlier. But Im willing to say Purdy wont be in the MVP talks again late in the season in his entire career again. Now I say late in the season bc he could start the season great and be in the very early MVP talks but deep into the season like post Thanksgiving Im willing to bet he wont be in the real MVP talks that deep into the season again in his career. Again the Niners had the best roster, the NFC wasnt as strong, alot of players across the league was injured, and the Niners was relatively healthy for the entire season which they arent normally due to their physical nature. Everything lined up for them that I just cant see happening moving forward. You have to capitalize when the situation strikes. 

The Niners definitely need to upgrade their OL outside of Williams. But even Williams is getting long in the tooth. Its still going to come down to Kyle and Purdy in those big games. I know the Niners are going to win enough games to get to the playoffs and win a playoff game or two. Its can they finish the job? Again I do believe Kyle will eventually win a Superbowl but he has to change his approach in order to do so. Moving forward its going to be interesting to see if Kyle does change his approach bc being apart of three of the last eight Superbowls and losing all of them has to be eating him alive. 

[warfelg]

22 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said:

 

Did you see the NFL films clip from the start of overtime? Kyle Juszczyk made a comment about the Niners having the ball first and if KC scores a TD all they need is a FG after.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

57 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

I can see Kyle eventually getting over the hump. Im not certain it will be with Purdy though. I truly think eventually Kyle is going to have to go the McVay route or even the Reid route and say there is only so much you can do with the QBs they have worked with that they need a Stafford or Mahomes to do so. Yes Stafford wasnt Superbowl successful in Detroit. Mahomes wasnt even a winning QB in Texas Tech and had alot of issues coming out thats why he fell in the draft. But nobody doubted their raw talent from the QB. That aw factor that can change games. All they need was real structure. Reid was that real structure for Mahomes and the way the Chiefs organization ran. McVay was that real structure for Stafford and the way the Rams organization ran. So I trust the Niners organization being ran with draft picks, bringing in talent, and coaching. And I know Kyle tried to do it with giving up alot for Lance in the draft but to me it felt half way. I think Kyle really wanted Stafford and missed out. From hearing Peter Schreger talk about the process. Kyle was 2 minutes away in another hotel from McVay he was watching film of Stafford and was told by agent that nothing was going to happen just be patient. Only for the breaking news that the Rams traded for Stafford. So I think it really hurt Kyle that he didnt get Stafford. So then he went and got Lance. It didnt work out and he pulled out quick to move on. Purdy is a revelation but again I feel like he can only take the Niners so far. Jimmy G had far less to work with on offense than Purdy did in the Superbowl and was in the same position to beat a more explosive Chiefs team that had Hill and Kelce. You can say both games Kyle had the same issue. He stopped running the ball. That day with Mostert and this game with CMC. And Jimmy G had his shot and never got back despite getting to an NFCCG. We will see how far Purdy can take the Niners again.

MVP conversation has its variables. You right Wentz is an outlier. But Im willing to say Purdy wont be in the MVP talks again late in the season in his entire career again. Now I say late in the season bc he could start the season great and be in the very early MVP talks but deep into the season like post Thanksgiving Im willing to bet he wont be in the real MVP talks that deep into the season again in his career. Again the Niners had the best roster, the NFC wasnt as strong, alot of players across the league was injured, and the Niners was relatively healthy for the entire season which they arent normally due to their physical nature. Everything lined up for them that I just cant see happening moving forward. You have to capitalize when the situation strikes. 

The Niners definitely need to upgrade their OL outside of Williams. But even Williams is getting long in the tooth. Its still going to come down to Kyle and Purdy in those big games. I know the Niners are going to win enough games to get to the playoffs and win a playoff game or two. Its can they finish the job? Again I do believe Kyle will eventually win a Superbowl but he has to change his approach in order to do so. Moving forward its going to be interesting to see if Kyle does change his approach bc being apart of three of the last eight Superbowls and losing all of them has to be eating him alive. 

Shanahan swung for the fences for raw talent, and it costs him three first round picks, and a one way ticket to languish in Dallas. Perhaps Purdy's raw talent is simply the processing power in his brain. I don't see what they can't be a talent that's a rare commodity. 

Shanahan wanted Stafford. He missed out. So his half-*** plan B is to mortgage the future by sending three first round picks on someone he wasn't sure about??? If that was the case, where he and John had to approach the owner to convince him that it was the right call, but in reality he secretly had wet feet...well then he should be fired. So no, I can't really subscribe to that interpretation of the curiosity that was Trey Lance. 

"Jimmy G had far less to work with on offense than Purdy did in the Super Bowl." Ok. I'm guessing that doesn't include pass protection correct??? Are we also factoring in going against a worse Chiefs defense??? There are many factors between each game, and no matter the circumstances between two games, especially four years apart, a conclusive statement really can't be made when the sample size is a grand total of two games. You know, maybe we can do the logical thing and extrapolate each quarterback's performance in multiple games they played for the 49ers instead of just 1 game each, and only examine those two games, because it happens to be the Super Bowl. 

There's no evidence to suggest that Purdy can't be in MVP talks late in a season for the rest of his career. Especially since he's only 24 years old, and with the little amount of experience he's had, has already accomplished that. And anyway, that would come down to who he plays, and other factors that are pointless to speculate about, let alone give a concrete statement on. Again, if you're talking about just being in the conversation around December, then he very well could do it again, and not because some notable quarterbacks were injured (which happens every year) or he has the best roster in the league (one of the better rosters would suffice as it does for anyone that usually wins MVP at the QB spot). 

Kyle's decision making in late games can be perfect, and the ball could be coming out of Purdy's hand like dynamite, but it doesn't matter if the offensive line is hideous. Most teams' that win the Super Bowl have a quality offensive line. A leaky unit really goes the distance. And that's what cost the 49ers among other things near the finish line. 

Edited February 16 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Forge]

23 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said:

 

I'm shocked that jlc, who's been putting out hit pieces on the shanahans for over a decade (he wrote the article about the 2012 Washington staff being the worst in the league) is not a fan 😂

[Forge]

7 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm shocked that jlc, who's been putting out hit pieces on the shanahans for over a decade (he wrote the article about the 2012 Washington staff being the worst in the league) is not a fan 😂

And to be clear, there is some valid criticism there, but the source makes it funny because his hate flows through that so clearly. 

Dude just flat out does not like the shanahans.

Probably a reasonable stance. Kyle seems like a miserable person to deal with and unless you're part of the cabo cabal, probably not a great hang 

[MaddHatter]

On 2/14/2024 at 2:23 AM, stl4life07 said:

I was watching “First Things First” and Nick Wright made a point that I’ve been making all this time. The reason why Kyle keep coming up short in these big games is bc he comes into every big game with the 2nd best QB on the field. So he need for everything to go right for this team to win he don’t have the QB to overcome them.

He needed for Jimmy G to complete to pass to Sanders in the Superbowl. He needed Tartt to catch that int in the NFCCG, he needed for that punt not to bounce the way that it did in this Superbowl. Bc he doesn’t have the QB that can overcome mistakes when you have Mahomes and Stafford on the other side who is the way better QB in the game and they are able to overcome things in the game.

And he mentioned Reid with the Eagles and his failures in not being able to win the title. He had the 2nd best QB on the field when he lost to the likes of ARod, Brees, Brady, and Warner. The only time he started winning titles is when he had Mahomes. And the only time Mahomes wasn’t the best QB on field was when he went up against Brady. Outside of that every single time Reid Chiefs took the field he knew he had the advantage at QB. Now you can say how big of a gap was the advantage? But it was the advantage. 
 

Kyle need to figure out that situation bc if he don’t he will continue to come up short bc the league is getting too talented at the QB position each year that the Niners will continue to have the 2nd best QB on the field in these big games where they will need nearly everything thing to go right for them to win. One or two things go wrong and they will fall short again. 

 

So does that make Doug Peterson, Tom Coughlin, Jon Gruden, and Brian Billick the greatest coaches ever?  They did what Kyle, Reid, and even the GOAT Belicheck never did - won a Super Bowl with the 2nd best QB on the field.