***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

[D82]

18 minutes ago, Tyty said:

Doesn't history repeat itself kinda in Star Wars? Isn't that pretty much how darth maul went too? Overconfident and clearly most powerful but was so arrogant he pretty much killed himself. 

Also people keep complaining about Luke's sendoff but honestly I'm just happy he wasn't there and turned off his lightsaber and let kylo kill him cause then people would be crying that it ripped off the originals again. This movie introduced two new force things I didn't know was possible (but might've happened in books, idk) in that two force sensitive minds can be connected across the galaxy and you can make an apparition of yourself all the way across the galaxy. Both pretty neat and unique additions imo. 

I wouldn't have had an issue with Luke sticking around for another movie, I also don't have an issue with Luke being killed. It's just...this is the guy who took down the Emperor and Darth Vader. Yes, he survived a full on assault from a bunch of Imperial walkers and Kylo couldn't land a hit on him until Luke essentially "gave up" (I know there's more to it than that, just saying). I wanted to see a really, really good duel between student and master. 

My problem with Snoke is - he wasn't Maul. Snoke is supposed to be this guy that has been around since the prequels, another Sidious essentially, powerful enough to sway Ben to the Dark Side. Granted, it wasn't a complete turn as Ben is still clearly torn between both sides and seems to be pursuing something somewhere in the middle. But still. I guess a point could be made that Sidious was so blinded by his own might that he never foresaw Vader/Anakin turning on him. I guess his death wouldn't have bothered me had we seen...more? 

I've watched a couple YouTube videos where they talk about some of the missing points in the story possibly/likely being explained in novels/comics, but I'm not going to buy all that extra stuff. I love Star Wars, but I'm not that an extreme of a fanboy. I don't mind some side stories being explained in those medias, but main points to the story should at least be somewhat explored in the films. 

 

[D82]

I also don't see where everyone is saying Finn was a coward in the beginning of the film - he wasn't running away, he was going to try and warn Rey to stay away as things weren't looking great on the Resistance ship. I took it more so as him not wanting her to get killed vs. him trying to run away and not fight. 

I also am not against introducing new characters - if they have a point. I felt the girl who kisses Finn was kinda forced into the story. I literally didn't care if she lived and wanted her to die. 

[Mox]

2 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Unless this is the start of a REALLY powerful Kylo. Sideous didn't take on his full strength until he killed Plaegus, as we learned in the prequels.

I agree it was unexpected, but I'll defer judgement to IX.

Seems like there is a serious disconnect between Abrams and Johnson. I wouldn't be surprised if IX retcons a bunch of this movie like this seemingly did to XII now that Abrams will be back.

[BayRaider]

22 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Seems like there is a serious disconnect between Abrams and Johnson. I wouldn't be surprised if IX retcons a bunch of this movie like this seemingly did to XII now that Abrams will be back.

No idea why a director wouldn't do all three movies. It's like a different author taking turns writing the same book for a book series. There should be one director and neither of these two were the correct choice. Abrams is not creative at all but does direct everything quite well and a very solid director. But in a Star Wars flick you need creativity. Rian Johnson seems like he didn't know what he was doing... the pacing was all over the place and most of it was all filler just patched together.

Can't put all the blame on them though. Most of it goes to Disney. I was afraid they'd play it extremely safe and they did. I didn't think they'd go to these lengths though.. literally a remake of A New Hope and no new ideas, creativity, or originality in this trilogy what so ever. They knew these movies would make billions and wanted to take the safest and least creative route possible to avoid any possible criticism.

[Ty21]

What do you guys mean by safe? What would you would have liked to see that was dangerous? Unclear 

[D82]

Not sure I'd agree about not trying anything new....the whole concept of Force Projection was something entirely different that we hadn't seen before. I'm not sure I'm a fan of it, as at first it took me completely out of the movie...but it was definitely new. 

As far as Johnson...I think this will be the last movie of his that I go see. I didn't like Looper or really any other film I'd seen of his...so I guess I shouldn't be surprised I didn't really care for this one either.

[Ty21]

Interesting. read a theory that said snoke making the rey and ren connection was his attempt st making an anakin-padme thing so ren goes fully to the dark side trying to protect her. They said he creepily connected them when he was shirtless for that reason too

[Ty21]

Also the force Jesus Leia moment is being speculated as Kylo's doing since she's never done anything with the force really although she has shown signs of it. 

[Ty21]

Did Rey use Kylo's lightsaber st all? I don't remember. It was in the trailer. 

[INbengalfan]

4 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I think there was a very subtle piece in there that's widely ignored by people - it could have been covered in a shorter time under a different venue, but if taken at a deeper context, it could foreshadow what's next:

During the casino scene, you had DJ hijack a starship of an arms dealer, and he showed Finn how these dealers were selling weapons to both the First Order and the Resistance. 

Think about that real quick - to this point, every character and/or action in this saga can be firmly dropped into a "good guy" bucket or a "bad guy" bucket. Jedi/Sith, Rebellion/Empire, Resistance/First Order, there's a duality that has governed this story since the 70s. DJ introduced a "grey area" that's never been touched on before - there ARE people who play the middle, people who aren't light or dark. 

I think this is the next great step in this story - introducing morally grey into this world. And I think Ren/Rey will also play in this space during IX.

Of course, if that was the intent, they absolutely missed a better chance to have Kilo and Rey join forces and operate in that grey area.  They could have taken on Snoke in a more elaborate battle.  It would have been cool to see Snoke take each one of them on in different places the way Luke used the Force ghost to buy time with Kylo.

[iLikeDefense]

51 minutes ago, Tyty said:

Did Rey use Kylo's lightsaber st all? I don't remember. It was in the trailer. 

During the scene with Snoke. He then proceeds to make a comment on how ferocious she is or something like that.

[Miami49er]

This movie was ok. this movie was enjoyable and it had a LOT of flaws and pot holes. I'm shocked critics are overly praising it and not really pointing out any of the massive flaws. this is one of the rare times when I think the audience score more indicative of this move than the critics score. it's an average movie. Rian Johnson looks like he just threw everything JJ Abrams set up in TFA away.

Here are my issues with it:

- Why didn't the general with the purple hair (I forget her name) just freaking tell Poe her plan? She flexed her authority on him for no reason which caused Finn and Rose to go on that pointless trip to the casino. That whole thing could have and should have been cut out. The whole plan failed, a mutiny started, and when Poe finally found out her plan he's like "oh, that is a good plan". and that's that. all of that could have been avoided.

- Star Lord Leia. come on besides that being ridiculous even for a Star Wars film, everyone saw it and just acted like that was normal.

- Luke Skywalker: In TFA Luke hid a secret map in R2D2 to find him if he was ever needed. In, TLJ he just wants to be left alone and wants nothing to do with the resistance. hell, everything about Luke Skywalker was out of cannon and even Mark Hamill complained about it. The final battle with Luke vs Kylo was terrible. Basically Kylo was fighting a hologram. THAT'S how Luke goes out? come on.

- Luke never really trained Rey. Only for her to run off to Kylo. what was the point then?

- If Kylo is so powerful, how could he not tell that was a force projection???

- There was basically no light saber battles. Kylo and Hologram Luke clashed light sabers twice.

- Snoke was completely wasted. We know nothing at all about him and he's killed off. Snoke is so powerful he can link Kylo and Rey from across the galaxy but couldn't feel Kylo turning that light saber on him? And we still know NOTHING about him.

- Rey's parents: I have no issue with them being nobody. But it was clearly set up in TFA for them to be someone important and Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson decided to just throw that away. We waiting 2 years with all the clues and hints and theories for that? what was the point?

- An hour of the movie is The First Order on cruise control just firing at the resistance. come on.

- The jokes were horrible. and a lot of it forced. I cringed at the goofy close up shot of dead Snoke's face.

- Captain Phasma.... still completely under used. how is she that high ranked and so worthless?

- Rose just met Finn 12 hours ago and she's in love in him already?! Finn's face when she did that was my reaction as well.

There's actually a lot more I can get into but a lot of it has been said. I liked the movie but it disappointed me. A lot of it unforgivable. I feel like years down the line, they are going to look back on TLJ like they did the prequels and say it wasn't good. and I'm definitely NOT looking forward to Rian Johnson's trilogy.

[Miami49er]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

No idea why a director wouldn't do all three movies. It's like a different author taking turns writing the same book for a book series. There should be one director and neither of these two were the correct choice. Abrams is not creative at all but does direct everything quite well and a very solid director. But in a Star Wars flick you need creativity. Rian Johnson seems like he didn't know what he was doing... the pacing was all over the place and most of it was all filler just patched together.

Can't put all the blame on them though. Most of it goes to Disney. I was afraid they'd play it extremely safe and they did. I didn't think they'd go to these lengths though.. literally a remake of A New Hope and no new ideas, creativity, or originality in this trilogy what so ever. They knew these movies would make billions and wanted to take the safest and least creative route possible to avoid any possible criticism.

Yea that makes no sense. you have a trilogy originally directed by 3 different directors before JJ came back for Ep 9. It looks like Disney is just making the story as they go along with each movie and doesn't have an over arching direction of the trilogy. it's no wonder Disney can't seem to keep a director. They want to play things completely safe and want a director to play ball. which explains why Rian Johnson gets his own trilogy. I honestly wish George Lucas sold it to some other studio other than Disney would actually take chances.

[Calvert28]

12 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Hour and a half? You really think they're going to shave a full hour off of the length of VIII?

Maybe that's the problem - you left the movie too early.

To answer your question - yes.

They're not. He's Darth Maul. He's Count Dooku. Tell me about how those stories were fleshed out. Tell me how Sidious was fleshed out in the original three and NOT by benefit of the prequels. 

They weren't. Vader is pretty much the only villain that was given a full story. Kylo looks to be heading down that same path.

Pretty much every villain in the six Star Wars (save for Vader and Sideous) falls in this model, and I really didn't complain then. 

Did you? If so, you should probably have stop watching around RotJ. You're wasting money at this point.

If you actually read my post, you could have probably concluded that was a typo. And im glad you think they will, although im not convinced considering these first two movies, but if they do it will more then likely be them trying to cover too much of what was not explained in the first two and thus sacrifice the ending story. Or they focus on the ending and screw the audience out of important questions. I don't have enough faith in Abrams to pull off that kind of perfect mixture of the two. And im sure when the 3rd movie roles around we will hear you guys being staunch supporters so long as they do one thing well. Which is pretty much what happened in this one. 

Lmao oh no, that was by far the worst argument you could have come up with. He's Darth Maul? Dooku? Im seriously questioning now if you or anyone who liked this post has seen these movies. First off, your comparing these characters the Lucas prequal characters which just goes to show how badly they were done to begin with. Secondly, Snoke was introduced immediately as the driving force behind the First Order. Not Ren, from the start everyone basically stated that he was collateral made by the "Supreme Leader" the big baddy of the story. Up until the writers got lazy, he was Vader plain and simple and btw Lucas by ESB hadn't even decided what he wanted to do with the Emperor and how he fit into the story which is ok considering it was a new trilogy not expanding on an original. Snoke was the main fear factor that struck every hero to their bones, that broke the will of Luke Skywalker, the one that tore Han and Leia apart, the one that corrupted a supposed "prodigy" that had no real reason to be corrupted. Snoke did what Emperor Palpatine could not. He beat the greatest Jedi of all time and he never even came face to face with him as far as we know.  Like Vader, he has constantly outwitted and over powered the heroes with one setback being his DeathStar got destroyed. He was point blank the main villain, the Arch Enemy even if he was not the main antagonist. Except with Vader who was actually explained throughout the first two movies with one of the greatest mic drops of all time telling Luke he was his father. We got none of that with Snoke who was the puppeteer of this new story. Much like Vader was for Episodes 4 and 5. 

That part in bold once again proves just how bad this writing is. Kylo "looks" to be going down that same path? Vader was established IMMEDIATELY from the get go. Sidious was IMMEDIATELY established in the prequels. Kylo has not been given any footing on any stage to show his worth. As many others have pointed out he has been pretty much outsmarted at every turn, overpowered by a novice, the original episodes showed heroes getting by the skin of their teeth or with some miracle of circumstances. Heroes in this get by on the idiocy of the villains, and if it wasn't for the sheer might of the First Order (and im still wondering how they got this powerful with so many idiots in high places) this wouldn't even be a fight. If they were serious and actually had a gameplan for the script. It would not just be saying Ren is getting more powerful, it would actually show it. It would show him more calculating in outsmarting people (BTW Rey giving herself up to him does not count before you throw it out there), he would show the ability to at least defend himself somewhat against Snoke, he wouldn't lose his sh!t at the sight of Luke and go Joffery Baratheon on him. He would show growth. Some sort, of anything. And again all we have seen is writers telling us he's changing. But nothing in either movie confirms this, and dont say the connection either. Because the writers havent even said what the hell that even is yet, which of course is perfectly fine with some people, because it may get addressed in the last 15 minutes of Episode 9. 

ALso Dooku had a background explained for him, as well as developing it through the plot. It wasn't huge by any means. But it at least explained him. The guy who started all the crap in this current Star Wars Universe is still a character that came out of left field. Maul didn't start the Clone Wars, neither did Dooku. They didn't cause the rebellion that started the Civil War, infact they didn't even really do anything. Well except for Dooku who had probably the most kickazz fight scene with Grandmaster Yoda, of course that kind of fan service bothers some people on here. So we better leave it at that. But all major events were planned by Sidious, all put into motion by Sidious, with puppets doing his bidding for the menial labor. But Dooku was explained. Palpatine in all fairness didn't need to be built up in the original series. Because the Directors did such a great job with making Vader as menacing and terrible as he was. The moment he bowed to the Emperor as his master, people immediately went, "Oh sh!t". That explains so much. But had they introduced Sidious in the first movie, then let the mystery of what was left build his legend. With Snoke though they immediately started with the mystery buts thats all it stayed. Thus making him a worthless character. He wasn't even a good stepping stone for Ren to become the main villain because he took advantage of one fleeting moment of stupidity. And maybe I should stop wasting money on this franchise, but we fans who actually care about the characters, the story, the lore and the universe it all resides in and want a great experience. We do try to give the benefit of the doubt. Sure we have high standards and don't like crap being thrown at us, but they don't call us diehard fans for nothing. 

[Calvert28]

10 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

An hour and a half?  Do you think it's going to be a Direct-to-DVD release or something?  How long do you think it will take to explain Snoke (which I don't think we need one, though it would be nice to have it)?  I would say 5 minutes.  Rey's parents could easily be part of the climax of the next movie, as could more of Kylo's fall when we inevitably meet Luke's force ghost.  I mean what do you think the (most definitely) 2h 15m+ run time will be filled with except resolution to the store they've introduced?  You can't honestly think they're going to just introduce a bunch of new stuff while ignoring what they've started...

He is the exact same as Sidious was in the OT, just in the first 2 movies of the trilogy instead of the last 2.  Also...

Snoke didn't topple Luke Skywalker.  If that's how you feel coming out of that movie then I think you need to watch it again.

To the part in bold point out anywhere in these first two movies where they have actually shown any interest in doing that? Because what you just stated is exactly what they did in episode eight. By ESB we had plenty of things explained from ANH. We even had the backstory of Vader by then. All Rian did for this movie was give one piss poor explanation as to why Ren is the way he is and all it was is one flash back that apparently changed everything except that was basically contradicted by Luke explaining it was already bad way before that.

And yet there was really no point to him. They might as well have had him dead before this trilogy even started and explained a little of him in passing and just focused entirely on Ren. At least then, they could have gave him more opportunity to be more menacing. 

And Snoke didn't topple Luke Skywalker. Thats like saying Sidious didn't destroy the Jedi Order. He put everything in motion that lead to his will being broken and chosen exile. He pulled the one lynch pin that destroyed everything Luke, Leia, and Han had worked for. Maybe you should watch both movies again.