cannondale Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 If we're gonna talk percentages, 98% of the teams who win a Super Bowl are pretty active in FA They also draft and develop, so let's not pretend it's one or the other. The old mantra of "who do you want to be, the Redskins ?" is old news. Recently read an article stating we are long passed that time. The salary cap has accelerated enough to allow for a few mistakes. There are also more teams that draft better than ever before. If Cleveland has solved their problems by becoming Green Bay East, that will be one less team that drafts poorly. It makes a difference. There is no reason you can't play the FA game just as smartly and successfully as you draft. It's no longer "are you the Packers or the Redskins." New England is as active as anyone, yet still very stingy. They will let their own high priced guys leave rather than inflate their cap. They have mastered the art of grabbing cast offs and very good players who are on the downside, provide them with a specific role, and squeeze every last bit of productive football out of them at a discount. Of course that requires you have a system in place and guys smart enough to target specific talent. Practically their whole defense has been built that way for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 51 minutes ago, cannondale said: New England is as active as anyone, yet still very stingy. They will let their own high priced guys leave rather than inflate their cap. They have mastered the art of grabbing cast offs and very good players who are on the downside, provide them with a specific role, and squeeze every last bit of productive football out of them at a discount. A modern version of 'Plan B' that Joe Gibbs used so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Can you picture Belichick treadmilling his team's progress while waiting for the next draft to try to find decent corners ? And the year after that ? And maybe a third year ? We went through the same thing trying to find 3 DL. Before that we couldn't find safeties. Those types of struggles have a cumulative effect and I think we are seeing exactly how much as it has caught up to us. How many OLB FA's has Belichick signed over the years ? Lately I feel like our team is on hold more often than not, waiting and waiting to fill holes as if it's rocket science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Using the pats fa usage is too easy. They let Chandler Jones go and Jamie Collins and got thirds. If we did that, could you imagine? Everything they do works I swear. They're an oddity. If grabbing cheap guys and boom you win worked so well, everyone else would emulate them and the people that do it, would be better. There are teams that do it, but they aren't the freak show that the pats are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: Using the pats fa usage is too easy. They let Chandler Jones go and Jamie Collins and got thirds. If we did that, could you imagine? Everything they do works I swear. They're an oddity. If grabbing cheap guys and boom you win worked so well, everyone else would emulate them and the people that do it, would be better. There are teams that do it, but they aren't the freak show that the pats are They actually got a 2nd and a Jonathan Cooper for Jones, but Cooper flamed out there quickly. Players seem to pick their game up for them in a quest for a ring. I give the Pats credit .. they take advantage of every single angle when it comes to bettering their team. Most of the time it works out for them. Look at that turd Bennett .. he played hard to win a ring, and then mailed it in with the Pack at the first sign of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 41 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: Using the pats fa usage is too easy. They let Chandler Jones go and Jamie Collins and got thirds. If we did that, could you imagine? Everything they do works I swear. They're an oddity. If grabbing cheap guys and boom you win worked so well, everyone else would emulate them and the people that do it, would be better. There are teams that do it, but they aren't the freak show that the pats are And Richard Seymour. They identify talent to fit their system. No different than the draft. They also get trade value from guys before having to give them huge contracts that won't reflect their worth. They treat it as a cut throat business. Yeah they are probably the best at it. So either you get better at it or sit home and watch them accumulate rings. You certainly don't close the gap fumbling around for 3 drafts trying to find 2 corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 38 minutes ago, cannondale said: And Richard Seymour. They identify talent to fit their system. No different than the draft. They also get trade value from guys before having to give them huge contracts that won't reflect their worth. They treat it as a cut throat business. Yeah they are probably the best at it. So either you get better at it or sit home and watch them accumulate rings. You certainly don't close the gap fumbling around for 3 drafts trying to find 2 corners. I'm all about doing what they're doing obviously. Just don't expect you sign all these low and mid level guys and boom you're NE. What they got going on is special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said: Using the pats fa usage is too easy. They let Chandler Jones go and Jamie Collins and got thirds. If we did that, could you imagine? Everything they do works I swear. They're an oddity. If grabbing cheap guys and boom you win worked so well, everyone else would emulate them and the people that do it, would be better. There are teams that do it, but they aren't the freak show that the pats are Yea, cherrypicking the Pats is a poor argument. To evaluate the effectiveness of a given strategy you have to look at the entire sample of teams that attempt a given method, not just cherrypick one example that successfully executes the strategy ridiculously well. That's like arguing that all NBA guards should shoot their 3-pointer's from 6ft behind the line because Curry makes it work that way. The key is to properly forecast how a player will perform in future years relative to his monetary cost, regardless of whether it's your own free agent you are thinking of signing or an "outside" free agent you're thinking of signing. Pats are better at this forecasting. It's that simple. The forecasting is difficult, which is why plenty of teams that try the same strategy fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 minute ago, TransientTexan said: Yea, cherrypicking the Pats is a poor argument. To evaluate the effectiveness of a given strategy you have to look at the entire sample of teams that attempt a given method, not just cherrypick one example that successfully executes the strategy ridiculously well. That's like arguing that all NBA guards should shoot their 3-pointer's from 6ft behind the line because Curry makes it work that way. The key is to properly forecast how a player will perform in future years relative to his monetary cost, regardless of whether it's your own free agent you are thinking of signing or an "outside" free agent you're thinking of signing. Pats are better at this forecasting. It's that simple. The forecasting is difficult, which is why plenty of teams that try the same strategy fail. They have an advantage of being attractive because of ridiculously high end sustained success as well. That doesn't hurt getting guys in there, maybe little cheaper, maybe little less guaranteed so if it backfires. That plays too. They take a ridiculous amount of stabs too. http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2017/03/the_patriots_best_and_worst_fr.html I forgot they even signed almost every guy on that bad list because they do it so much. Their hit percentage seems insane and it is, but they've whiffed plenty too. We just never remember those, why would we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: They have an advantage of being attractive because of ridiculously high end sustained success as well. That doesn't hurt getting guys in there, maybe little cheaper, maybe little less guaranteed so if it backfires. That plays too. They take a ridiculous amount of stabs too. http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2017/03/the_patriots_best_and_worst_fr.html I forgot they even signed almost every guy on that bad list because they do it so much. Their hit percentage seems insane and it is, but they've whiffed plenty too. We just never remember those, why would we Success and winning is a very strong deodorant for those misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrid Josher Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 The Pats also effectively have ~8m extra cap space per year to play around with because of Brady's anti-competitive (sorry, "team friendly") contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, Acrid Josher said: The Pats also effectively have ~8m extra cap space per year to play around with because of Brady's anti-competitive (sorry, "team friendly") contract. Lets hope that Rodgers is taking a cue from Brady and maybe will follow that thinking in his next contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, squire12 said: Success and winning is a very strong deodorant for those misses. Absolutely. It also makes their mediocre role players who didn't actually do a ton look like amazing assets too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Acrid Josher said: The Pats also effectively have ~8m extra cap space per year to play around with because of Brady's anti-competitive (sorry, "team friendly") contract. Yeah and isn't he compensated elsewhere with some business considerations or whatever crap... supposedly anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, squire12 said: Success and winning is a very strong deodorant for those misses. And serial cheating is a stain they'll never erase...When you know what's coming, its a lot easier to "always puts guys in a position to make a play" Bill's one of the greatest coaches ever, but he just takes it too far. And he'll never outrun his legacy of being a serial cheater. And that's just the stuff they caught him doing. Its not a full accounting. While reading the various articles about Pettine, I came across another one with various NFL coaches stating they knew he cheated vs them. His bs antics at Lambeau are unforgivable to me That's why all of the excessive BB slurping makes me wanna barf. (And as a pre-emptive note for any BB defenders, I don't give a rats arse what you think) Now back to the Packers 2018 Defense..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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