2018 Packer DEFENSE Discussion

[Kenrik]

4 hours ago, packfanfb said:

My main thing with House is his injury history. Can't ignore that. Guy was hurt a lot during his first several years here and last year it seemed like he got hurt in nearly every game he played in. It would be one thing if I knew the guy was going to be healthy for 15 games, but i put that at about a 25% chance. 

King and Randall have also been injuried. Im okay with letting House go but we better sign one of the top 5 CBs in free agency. King, Randall, House/free agent with Morgan(please re-sign) and Jones having the ability to cover in the slot. Wouldnt be bad to add another prospect like House in the draft.

[Shanedorf]

The Steelers did everything the Packer fans have been begging (and whining) for. They dumped their DC, they replaced him with a guy who'd run a similar but better defense using the players they already have. They drafted speedy guys like Shazier early in the draft and they showed great improvement in the regular season. Packer fans here at FF were frequently lauding the Steelers for "doing it right".  They had a new voice calling the defense and weren't so damn predictable...Till they hit the playoffs and gave up 36 to the Pats in 2016 and then gave up 45 to the Jags last weekend. Back- to- back playoff losses, pegged to the defense despite changes in coaching and better players and an improved regular season.

And here is their defensive leader lamenting the problems:

"The days after a loss like that can feature a lot of searching for answers and defensive end Cameron Heyward believes he’s identified the problem. He sees “a discord” between what’s called and what’s being executed as being at the heart of their struggles.

“It’s not the scheme,” Heyward said, via the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “I think we had a great game plan, but execution has to be part of the situation. When you don’t execute on your assignments … it doesn’t matter what you play. You’re sacrificing the team’s success over your own. That’s a critical thing we have to learn from as a group. If one guy doesn’t do his job, then you’re hurting the other 10 guys. I’m not trying to point one guy out. We all have to get better from this. It falls a lot on me, being the defensive leader. We have to grow.”

 

You still gotta execute to win in this league, they ain't playing Madden out there. Especially in a league so heavily tilted toward the offense. the vikes defense was also given kudos all year long. But in crunch time at home, they gave away a 17-0 lead in the 2nd half and came a brain fart away from another epic playoff choke - because their defense couldn't stop old man Brees from carving them up. If he still had his deep ball, it wouldn't have been nearly as close

That's called perspective and my 2018 wish for Packer Nation is to grow a pair AND to have some effing perspective.

[Norm]

56 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

The Steelers did everything the Packer fans have been begging (and whining) for. They dumped their DC, they replaced him with a guy who'd run a similar but better defense using the players they already have. They drafted speedy guys like Shazier early in the draft and they showed great improvement in the regular season. Packer fans here at FF were frequently lauding the Steelers for "doing it right".  They had a new voice calling the defense and weren't so damn predictable...Till they hit the playoffs and gave up 36 to the Pats in 2016 and then gave up 45 to the Jags last weekend. Back- to- back playoff losses, pegged to the defense despite changes in coaching and better players and an improved regular season.

And here is their defensive leader lamenting the problems:

"The days after a loss like that can feature a lot of searching for answers and defensive end Cameron Heyward believes he’s identified the problem. He sees “a discord” between what’s called and what’s being executed as being at the heart of their struggles.

 

“It’s not the scheme,” Heyward said, via the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “I think we had a great game plan, but execution has to be part of the situation. When you don’t execute on your assignments … it doesn’t matter what you play. You’re sacrificing the team’s success over your own. That’s a critical thing we have to learn from as a group. If one guy doesn’t do his job, then you’re hurting the other 10 guys. I’m not trying to point one guy out. We all have to get better from this. It falls a lot on me, being the defensive leader. We have to grow.”

 

You still gotta execute to win in this league, they ain't playing Madden out there. Especially in a league so heavily tilted toward the offense. the vikes defense was also given kudos all year long. But in crunch time at home, they gave away a 17-0 lead in the 2nd half and came a brain fart away from another epic playoff choke - because their defense couldn't stop old man Brees from carving them up. If he still had his deep ball, it wouldn't have been nearly as close

That's called perspective and my 2018 wish for Packer Nation is to grow a pair AND to have some effing perspective.

You're my hero.

[Hands]

7 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

You're my hero.

It didn't help that their Pro Bowl LB, Shazier, was out and their defense has changed due to his absence. In fact, the the Steelers are feeling some of the pain that Packer fans have felt when one of their stars was injured and forced to retire. Not sure if Shazier will be able to come back, but for the foreseeable future...the Steelers will be a different defensive team.

[incognito_man]

25 minutes ago, Hands said:

It didn't help that their Pro Bowl LB, Shazier, was out and their defense has changed due to his absence. In fact, the the Steelers are feeling some of the pain that Packer fans have felt when one of their stars was injured and forced to retire. Not sure if Shazier will be able to come back, but for the foreseeable future...the Steelers will be a different defensive team.

I asked this at that time.

Said I: 'I wonder if losing shazier will make their defense look worse' when some folks were pointing to Pit as an example of what we should be

Look how ungodly healthy MIN has been on defense this year. I assume JAX has as well.

Luck is huge.

[ugLymayNe]

58 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Luck is huge.

[skibrett15]

On 1/16/2018 at 1:10 PM, incognito_man said:

I asked this at that time.

Said I: 'I wonder if losing shazier will make their defense look worse' when some folks were pointing to Pit as an example of what we should be

Look how ungodly healthy MIN has been on defense this year. I assume JAX has as well.

Luck is huge.

Yeah the point was well made then and now.

Health is a huge factor, but I haven't seen GB approaching those heights even when healthy.  Jax is crazy healthy on defense, but lost a lot of WRs in the middle of their season.

[incognito_man]

4 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

Yeah the point was well made then and now.

Health is a huge factor, but I haven't seen GB approaching those heights even when healthy.  Jax is crazy healthy on defense, but lost a lot of WRs in the middle of their season.

yeah, there's no question Jax has a better defense healthy or not. They have some studs on that side. Wasn't trying to compare, just pointing out how a healthy unit this time of the year is insanely valuable.

[squire12]

14 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

4 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

Yeah the point was well made then and now.

Health is a huge factor, but I haven't seen GB approaching those heights even when healthy.  Jax is crazy healthy on defense, but lost a lot of WRs in the middle of their season.

yeah, there's no question Jax has a better defense healthy or not. They have some studs on that side. Wasn't trying to compare, just pointing out how a healthy unit this time of the year is insanely valuable.

Thus the sting of the 2014 season.   GB was pretty dang healthy at the end of the year, not so much in several of the other years recently.

[TheOnlyThing]

On 1/16/2018 at 8:30 AM, Shanedorf said:

The Steelers did everything the Packer fans have been begging (and whining) for. They dumped their DC, they replaced him with a guy who'd run a similar but better defense using the players they already have. They drafted speedy guys like Shazier early in the draft and they showed great improvement in the regular season. Packer fans here at FF were frequently lauding the Steelers for "doing it right".  They had a new voice calling the defense and weren't so damn predictable...Till they hit the playoffs and gave up 36 to the Pats in 2016 and then gave up 45 to the Jags last weekend. Back- to- back playoff losses, pegged to the defense despite changes in coaching and better players and an improved regular season.

That's called perspective and my 2018 wish for Packer Nation is to grow a pair AND to have some effing perspective.

Funny I remember fans of the Pack's previous GM repeatedly extolling the virtues of the Steelers' approach of building their roster nearly as exclusively through the draft as our old GM did.

And I seem to recall that those promoting the notion that bringing in players from the outside the organization through unrestricted free agency was not a smart way of doing business in the NFL repeatedly citing the Steelers as evidence that the Pack's previous GM's shunning of free agency (and player trades) was the best way.

The Steelers were sort of held up as the AFC version of the Packers when it came to front office management (and stability at head coach) and lauded it for "doing it right" because they were doing it like the Packers were.

Anyway, my hope is that Gut will see that sticking to his predecessor's (and the Steelers') same old tired approach to roster building has not led to a return to the Super Bowl for either team over the past 7 seasons (despite both teams having HOF QBs under center during that time) and that he grows a pair and does not hesitate bring in some veteran talent like that GM does for the AFC team the Pack should be trying to emulate. 

[Tied2thetracks]

If House will sign for a bargain, bring him to camp. Also, try to find another Evans type player to keep the OL stable.

[{Family Ghost}]

10 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Anyway, my hope is that Gut will see that sticking to his predecessor's (and the Steelers') same old tired approach to roster building has not led to a return to the Super Bowl for either team over the past 7 seasons (despite both teams having HOF QBs under center during that time) and that he grows a pair and does not hesitate bring in some veteran talent like that GM does for the AFC team the Pack should be trying to emulate. 

I totally agree .. times have changed again in the NFL and the Packers and Steelers haven't kept up.  They had a sound plan for a while, but now they need to evolve.  There isn't much of an issue with 'cap hell' any longer .. the salary cap is going up each year to a point where you can afford to add a few extra pieces to the roster via free agency or trade.  Too much dependence on draft and develop just doesn't give a team much room for error if you have a less than good draft.

[squire12]

35 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I totally agree .. times have changed again in the NFL and the Packers and Steelers haven't kept up.  They had a sound plan for a while, but now they need to evolve.  There isn't much of an issue with 'cap hell' any longer .. the salary cap is going up each year to a point where you can afford to add a few extra pieces to the roster via free agency or trade.  Too much dependence on draft and develop just doesn't give a team much room for error if you have a less than good draft.

Part of the big change with teams that have drafted at the bottom of the first round is that with the rookie wage scale, the teams drafting at the top of the 1st round were previously saddled with a huge rookie contract that would take up a lot of salary cap space for several years.  That essentially leveled out the salary cap available across the league. 

 

Since 2011 and the new CBA, teams that have had high 1st round picks have had really modest players on rookie salaries, thus some of those teams have a huge amount of cap space and can pursue some players in FA to fill holes on the roster. 

[SpeightTheVillain]

29 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I totally agree .. times have changed again in the NFL and the Packers and Steelers haven't kept up.  They had a sound plan for a while, but now they need to evolve.  There isn't much of an issue with 'cap hell' any longer .. the salary cap is going up each year to a point where you can afford to add a few extra pieces to the roster via free agency or trade.  Too much dependence on draft and develop just doesn't give a team much room for error if you have a less than good draft.

No one has ever argued that not ever signing a FA is a good idea. But straw-man aside.

The Packers and Steelers have averaged 10.4 wins a season over that span. 

Have been to 21% of the conference championship games, and have missed the playoffs 3 times combined.

So to say it doesn't work is slightly disingenuous as well.  

[Norm]

46 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I totally agree .. times have changed again in the NFL and the Packers and Steelers haven't kept up.  They had a sound plan for a while, but now they need to evolve.  There isn't much of an issue with 'cap hell' any longer .. the salary cap is going up each year to a point where you can afford to add a few extra pieces to the roster via free agency or trade.  Too much dependence on draft and develop just doesn't give a team much room for error if you have a less than good draft.

Salary inflation is just that, inflation. Everything just goes up with it. It's a myth it means you can take more risk. You just pay more for the same guy than you did before. How does that help?