QB Matt Ryan retiring

[vegas492]

Tale as old as time....

Debating whether a very good QB without a ring deserves Hall of Fame honors.

Since I do not have a vote, I'll weigh in.  

He was very good for a period of time.  But this is a Hall of Fame.

Randy?

Simon?

Paula?

[Soko]

2 hours ago, scar988 said:

 

2 elite seasons, 1 MVP, x3 Pro Bowls, 0 rings, outside of the top 5 QB rankings for most of his 14 year career - does not a HOF resume make.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

There is no world Ryan deserves to be in the HoF. He might make it if he stays relevant in media after retiring, but his resume is simply not HoF level.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Danger said:

He's gonna be judged against his contemporaries my guy.

91.0
92.2
99.1
93.9
117.1
108.1
92.1
93.3

4 out of those 7 years... were average. They're just bulk stats, which aren't impressive. And that's discounting all of the years he was below 90 passer rating and worse.

2008: 11th
2009: 20th
2010: 11th
2011: 8th
2012: 5th
2013: 12th
2014: 11th
2015: 20th
2016: 1st
2017: 15th
2018: 4th
2019: 14th
2020: 21st
2021: 18th

Cracking the top 10 in the league in passer rating only 4 times in 14 years is by no means a hall of fame QB.

Do you think Eli Manning sniffs the hall without winning multiple Super Bowls? 

Good points. In the Raiders sub yesterday, we actually had a similar discussion about Matt Stafford. He has a ring, but a losing record, only 2 Pro Bowls, and zero 1st or 2nd All Pros. He will end up a top 10 in yards and TDs though. 

I asked the question- why is Stafford HOF worthy, but not Joe Flacco who never had the weapons Stafford has now or even largely had in Detroit with Calvin.

Flacco has barely played in almost half a decade but statistically would have only needed around 2800 yards and around 18 TDs per year over that span to match Stafford, has a winning record as a starter, a Superbowl ring, and a Superbowl MVP. 2 Pro Bowls and a handful of very average passing stats and you're talking about 2 very similar resumes, yet people have begun talking about Stafford as a HoF bound guy while it would take an absolute miracle for Flacco to sniff a single vote for it. 

I say all of this, because I'm seeing little that truly separates Ryan from Stafford and Flacco as an all-time great. He has some bulk stats, 1 MVP, and 4 Pro Bowls. He has a winning record but ended his career with 5 straight losing seasons that were largely pretty average or below. He wasn't a Pro Bowl regular, no ring, wasn't a multi time MVP and just 1 All Pro. He was really good with 1 or 2 stellar statistical seasons. 

Ryan was a very good QB. He's arguably towards the top of that silver medal category. But gold standard Hall of Famer? Not without a ring. Too many of his contemporaries simply have better accolades. Of steady starters from over the decade from 2010-2020, we're already looking at 6 Hall locks (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Peyton, Eli). All of them have far better claims, and 7 QBs from the same era is way too many. You're talking almost 1/4 of all starting QBs to include Ryan and almost 1/3 to add Stafford and Rivers to the debate. 

Ryan was indeed very very good in the Golden Age of QBs, but he wasn't one of the absolute best. 

Edited April 22 by ronjon1990

[scar988]

7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Good points. In the Raiders sub yesterday, we actually had a similar discussion about Matt Stafford. He has a ring, but a losing record, only 2 Pro Bowls, and zero 1st or 2nd All Pros. He will end up a top 10 in yards and TDs though. 

I asked the question- why is Stafford HOF worthy, but not Joe Flacco who never had the weapons Stafford has now or even largely had in Detroit with Calvin.

Flacco has barely played in almost half a decade but statistically would have only needed around 2800 yards and around 18 TDs per year over that span to match Stafford, has a winning record as a starter, a Superbowl ring, and a Superbowl MVP. 2 Pro Bowls and a handful of very average passing stats and you're talking about 2 very similar resumes, yet people have begun talking about Stafford as a HoF bound guy while it would take an absolute miracle for Flacco to sniff a single vote for it. 

I say all of this, because I'm seeing little that truly separates Ryan from Stafford and Flacco as an all-time great. He has some bulk stats, 1 MVP, and 4 Pro Bowls. He has a winning record but ended his career with 5 straight losing seasons that were largely pretty average or below. He wasn't a Pro Bowl regular, no ring, wasn't a multi time MVP and just 1 All Pro. He was really good with 1 or 2 stellar statistical seasons. 

Ryan was a very good QB. He's arguably towards the top of that silver medal category. But gold standard Hall of Famer? Not without a ring. Too many of his contemporaries simply have better accolades. Of steady starters from over the decade from 2010-2020, we're already looking at 6 Hall locks (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Peyton, Eli). All of them have far better claims, and 7 QBs from the same era is way too many. You're talking almost 1/4 of all starting QBs to include Ryan and almost 1/3 to add Stafford and Rivers to the debate. 

Ryan was indeed very very good in the Golden Age of QBs, but he wasn't one of the absolute best. 

QB Winz are not a true stat, though. Ryan lifted up some awful Falcons rosters to even get to the 7-9 that he was able to. And 2020 was the worst luck year ever. (Doesn't mean that they should have had a winning season, but should have been at least 8-8 with the point differential they had.)

[scar988]

8 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Ryan was a very good QB. He's arguably towards the top of that silver medal category. But gold standard Hall of Famer? Not without a ring. Too many of his contemporaries simply have better accolades. Of steady starters from over the decade from 2010-2020, we're already looking at 6 Hall locks (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Peyton, Eli). All of them have far better claims, and 7 QBs from the same era is way too many. You're talking almost 1/4 of all starting QBs to include Ryan and almost 1/3 to add Stafford and Rivers to the debate. 

 

I'd argue that all 9 belong in except for Eli. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, scar988 said:

QB Winz are not a true stat, though. Ryan lifted up some awful Falcons rosters to even get to the 7-9 that he was able to. And 2020 was the worst luck year ever. (Doesn't mean that they should have had a winning season, but should have been at least 8-8 with the point differential they had.)

They're not. They're simply a single part of the equation. 

1 hour ago, scar988 said:

I'd argue that all 9 belong in except for Eli. 

I'd argue that it would diminish the Hall of Fame to place a bunch of average QBs that never stood out from their peers in. 

[Totty]

Thanks Matt.  You deserve Canton.  

[Xmad]

Matt Ryan belongs in the hall of fame.

28-3 and losing that superbowl is an NFL tale we'll be talking about for decades as one of the worst choke jobs of all time. 

Matt Ryan had legitimately 2 great years and has been very good for a long long time. 

Joe Flacco's still better.

[Ninersfan1984]

So now the 7th or 8th best QB in his era should go in the Hall of Fame? I get we live in a QB obsessed time but this is getting out of hand. If Ryan is a Hall of Famer so is Stafford and Wilson. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

If the Falcons beat the Patriots, and everything else stays the same I think he's in the HOF for sure. I know other guys like Philip Rivers, and Tony Romo will be brought up as similar players. Maybe Cousins, and Prescott in the future once they are done (assuming they don't win a ring). Ryan did get the Falcons to a Super Bowl though, and his level of play was pretty consistently good up until the last couple of his seasons. I honestly think he would have gotten more Pro Bowls if the Falcons weren't utterly hideous the last decade, and out of the spotlight. I know the standards for the HOF have probably changed, but Warren Moon and Dan Fouts are in the HOF, and neither were ever MVP let alone made a Super Bowl. Moon was never even in a championship game to get there. 

Given the importance of the position, he's probably the best player in the franchise's history. 

Edited April 23 by TecmoSuperJoe

[scar988]

3 hours ago, Xmad said:

 

28-3 and losing that superbowl is an NFL tale we'll be talking about for decades as one of the worst choke jobs of all time. 

 

That game wasn't on him. He made the throw to seal the game. He didn't miss a blitz pickup. He didn't drop an interception with 2 minutes left in the game. Matt wasn't why they lost.

[scar988]

17 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

If the Falcons beat the Patriots, and everything else stays the same I think he's in the HOF for sure. I know other guys like Philip Rivers, and Tony Romo will be brought up as similar players. Maybe Cousins, and Prescott in the future once they are done (assuming they don't win a ring). Ryan did get the Falcons to a Super Bowl though, and his level of play was pretty consistently good up until the last couple of his seasons. I honestly think he would have gotten more Pro Bowls if the Falcons weren't utterly hideous the last decade, and out of the spotlight. I know the standards for the HOF have probably changed, but Warren Moon and Dan Fouts are in the HOF, and neither were ever MVP let alone made a Super Bowl. Moon was never even in a championship game to get there. 

Given the importance of the position, he's probably the best player in the franchise's history. 

If Matt Ryan didn't have the on average 27th best defense in the NFL, the Falcons probably win a ton more games when he's here and probably win a title. That defense when they went to the Super Bowl was horrid. 

[tyler735]

No way he should be in the Hall of Fame. Most wouldn’t have had him in their top 5 QB’s for most of his NFL career. 

[Xmad]

6 hours ago, scar988 said:

That game wasn't on him. He made the throw to seal the game. He didn't miss a blitz pickup. He didn't drop an interception with 2 minutes left in the game. Matt wasn't why they lost.

Yet they still lost.

The loss is on ryan since all they had to do to kill new england was score one more time. He can audible and run the god damn ball more and not leave 10+ seconds on the clock when you're trying to milk it.