🏈 Pick #13 is in! Raiders select TE, Brock Bowers, Georgia

[Frankie2Gunz]

56 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You keep calling Mayer a backup. You're the self proclaimed smartest guy on this forum and we're all idiots. So how does 12 personnel work again? And you keep trying to shoehorn Bowers into a traditional TE role, which doesn't work either. 

Bowers was rated higher than any OT/CB in this class, fact. 

Your bias is you wanted need over BPA. Now to justify your "smartest guy in the room" stance, he needs to put up HOF numbers. We'll just ignore what the OT/CBs do in comparison I suppose. 

If they draft and OT/CB next year, then... who cares. It's about building the team out. They were not a CB or OT away from contention. They got a good player for the future. That's what they are building until they insert a QB. 

If they drafted Arnold (who went 24) as you wanted, did he need to have HOF talent? Or is that just reserved for players you don't like? Asking for everyone. 

I understand that you keep shilling for 12 personnel however what type of production has Getsy ever generated using 12 personnel at any point in his professional career? 

Let's give your flawed opinion the benefit of the doubt what type of production would you expect from Mayer in these 12 personnel sets over the course of the year for the numbers not to be those of a backup?

Bowers was rated higher than any OT in this according to who?  You or the TV shills you use as reference.  Someone named Jim Harbaugh at pick #5 disagrees with your opinion. 

Anyone drafted in the first 15 picks should be expected to produce at HOF/ All Pro levels throughout their careers.  You don't draft a player in that range hoping they are average.... Would I have expected any CB/OT to produce at an elite level, yes just as I would expect the same from Bowers.  

Also who said I don't like Bowers?  I have said he is a talented player but I am not a fan of the positional value considering TE is not a highly valued position and that we have a 2nd rounder from the year before now on the bench.  For using pick 13 on a TE he needs to produce at a very high level considering we already had a young TE on the roster that fans were jocking all of last season...

 

 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Coming with receipts!!!! 

These are not receipts.

This shows <1% of his volume of work. This is the definition of cherry picking to feed a narrative. 

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Ranked higher than Alt?

honestly when harbs passed on bowers it said all I needed to know 

What did you need to know? That Harbaugh is like a running team and invested in the Oline like he does everywhere he's been? 

And yes, some had Bowers and Harrison Jr. as the best overall players in the class regardless of position. 

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=UqSMZYCj13BLj-Pm&t=155 (conetsted)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=b7wWysikRCy6i_zV&t=168 (behind)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=JDEgczGyyds2dM2A&t=195 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=bdYxwYBwNZOf3KxC&t=220 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=k1H_YfTJacmfN12q&t=564 (contested)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=t4RqE3k23H6h17R7&t=580 (contested)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=Qaoez8kotfnQtlKp&t=692 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=21_1XrytcridaTTr&t=881 (contested, outside frame)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=_1FvjTTUTF2AjvK9&t=924 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=oDnIZ26GQVIwRi0l&t=1166 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=ocw7h_QV431uKF2N&t=1243 (contested)

https://youtu.be/osTWrE8SjGI?si=VGPE4_BFkj1Jognc&t=1475 (outside frame, contested) 

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=5t31CL2CqrK2D6WO&t=45 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=hB8jGJa5PQBgo37K&t=114 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=hj_-lupHXx7OGCZu&t=410 (contested)

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=5msdqdyRwHVowmjL&t=539 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=MGF0rHlRPsGqujrL&t=588 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=Ciov5DSHBYjwgdNv&t=973 (contested)

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=DkuvlMDz1i1Ydugr&t=1068 (outside frame)

https://youtu.be/gefrv2fo1T0?si=eW2sjnqNhzGzRPTY&t=1077 (outside frame, contested)

 

     

None of this shows he’s not good at contested catches. You can cut up various plays across the top prospects and find similar plays

Edited May 3 by bucksavage1

[big_palooka]

 

 

Stroud's second ranked player in the entire draft. But ya know.... he's probably just a "TV shill I'm using for reference"

 

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

 

 

Stroud's second ranked player in the entire draft. But ya know.... he's probably just a "TV shill I'm using for reference"

 

Because Stroud can throw a football that makes him a quality talent evaluator?  You can't be serious using such idiotic logic.  
 

Who needs GM’s when you have quarterbacks to evaluate talent? I couldn’t make this foolish **** up if I tried SMH

Here's a video of HOF QB Kurt Warner all over the jock of Johnny Football lol

 

Edited May 3 by Frankie2Gunz

[Frankie2Gunz]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

These are not receipts.

This shows <1% of his volume of work. This is the definition of cherry picking to feed a narrative. 

What did you need to know? That Harbaugh is like a running team and invested in the Oline like he does everywhere he's been? 

And yes, some had Bowers and Harrison Jr. as the best overall players in the class regardless of position. 

You said it was a "fact" that Bowers was the higher rated than any OT or CB my question was according to who?  I was asking how you know this is a "fact" when a HC named Jim Harbaugh, who needed a TE, passed over him for Alt.  Clearly Bowers not rated higher by JH therefor what you're stating is not a fact.  The Jets could have used a TE for Rodgers but they also passed on Bowers for an OT.

Edited May 3 by Frankie2Gunz

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

To be fair to Bowers, I am scrutinizing him this much because 1) he's a Raider 2) he was drafted 13th overall on a team with two starting-caliber tight ends and 3) he's a tight end. He makes a lot of really great plays (even *some* contested plays and plays outside his frame), and I would be surprised if he became an outright bust, but he does not win like a typical elite NFL tight end.

I don’t know why people get so butt hurt that we discuss the good, bad and ugly about our draft pick. Nobody saying he’s gonna be a bust. People just are just doing more homework on him to get to know the guy we are banking our future on. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

32 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

 

 

Stroud's second ranked player in the entire draft. But ya know.... he's probably just a "TV shill I'm using for reference"

 

What do you say? What does your eyes tell you? I know you’re a Georgia dude so you should know the good, bad and ugly about bowers. You know our team so you should know how he’ll fit with our team. Who cares what athletes and analysts and twitter have to say. Highlights are just that and only tell 1/3 of the story. 

[Rich7sena]

I think Trey McBride might be a decent comp for Brock Bowers. McBride broke out this past season and won in similar ways.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

These are not receipts.

This shows <1% of his volume of work. This is the definition of cherry picking to feed a narrative. 

What did you need to know? That Harbaugh is like a running team and invested in the Oline like he does everywhere he's been? 

And yes, some had Bowers and Harrison Jr. as the best overall players in the class regardless of position. 

Wow you’re really gonna stand on the hill that bowers was ranked higher than alt. When has the top ot ever been ranked lower than the top te? 

[Jerry]

4 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I've seen his size brought up in other threads here too fwiw. 

Also if a TE can move anything close to how Renfrow did but adding 5 inches and 55+ pounds is fine by me. I think you're simply underselling the other aspects of Bowers' game beyond his speed.

That wasn’t my intention.  I’m just comparing their ability to break tackles, shake defenders, and get open.

 

[FloydFan]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Wow you’re really gonna stand on the hill that bowers was ranked higher than alt. When has the top ot ever been ranked lower than the top te? 

I mean if you look at most major media big boards he was. Not that those are the end all be all but Bowers was universally ranked as one of the better prospects in this draft. I also wouldn’t use Harbaugh passing on him as something that “says all I need to know” or whatever. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Wow you’re really gonna stand on the hill that bowers was ranked higher than alt. When has the top ot ever been ranked lower than the top te? 

I'm trying to think of the last time a 1st round TE posed better value than the top OT.  2019 is the only year I can think of because the 1st round OT's sucked and Hock was the top TE.  Can one really say Hock has been good value as he has averaged 591 and 4 over his career.  Those are not the numbers you expect when drafting a TE 8 overall...

Edited May 3 by Frankie2Gunz

[Totty]

8 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I'm trying to think of the last time a 1st round TE posed better value than the top OT.  2019 is the only year I can think of because the 1st round OT's sucked and Hock was the top TE.  Can one really say Hock has been good value as he has averaged 591 and 4 over his career.  Those are not the numbers you expect when drafting a TE 8 overall...

Without going back to read the whole thread, can you state to me the problem with the pick that you have?  Genuinely asking.  

I gather you wanted an OT/CB at 13, but... Why if BPA was Brock Bowers?  Good teams don't draft for need.  They take BPA within reason. I have a sneaking suspicion BB will pose a greater that to defenders than Fuaga.  

To me this is a triple smart pick (maybe I'm wrong) but here's how I see it:

1) our defense outside of the Buffalo game wasn't the issue. And it's still a place where we added a top notch talent in Wilkins making CB LESS of a need.  The better your dline plays, the more your corners will shine.

2) We don't have an elite QB.  That said, you need to stack talent around them and the BEST option for a QB, young or average is a playmaking TE and we have two.  So this was a direct addition to help our either young or average QB room.  

3) BPA.  Brock amongst leading analysts was a top 4/5 talent in most predictors. Need? No.  BPA, absolutely.  I firmly believe he's a ALL PRO type talent.  And if that's the case, that means points.  Which we desperately need to compete.  Adams, Mayer, Myers, Bowers, Tucker and Zeus seem like a formidable problem for other teams.  

HM) playmaker. This kid is going to change how defense play against the position.  Not too many teams have someone to take away Adams.  Let alone Adams and a game breaker like Bowers.  

So let me ask you this, if he turns into an All Pro type pass catcher/WEAPON not just your average TE, Will you reconsider?  Because it won't be long until he's a household name in the league.  

[Scoundrel]

The complaints of Bowers being non premium and going top 13 but then the he doesn’t win like a traditional elite TE… well maybe that’s why he went top 13? He isn’t a traditional TE. He accelerates unlike others. He’s a mismatch nightmare. He makes everyone else better. I get the concerns but yeah… he is well worth this pick as a prospect even considering Mayer on the team. He knows how to win, he will do whatever he can to win and he is a fantastic prospect.