NFCN Rivals 2024

[CWood21]

11 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I don't really care about that.  He really had only been in the building for 90 days when that draft occurred.  Obviously, your guy Poles was in the same position and he did a little better initially.  However, I still have some faith in the guys drafted in 2022 that are still on the team to be able to contribute.  They have 1 solid starter in Ingram and they got a bunch of guys who still have the opportunity to contribute significantly (Cine, Booth, Asamoah, Evans, Chander, Nailor and Muse)...they've just taken longer to develop.  The last handful of Spielman's drafts were just as bad, if not worse.  They got some hits certainly in Darrisaw and JJ, but also a lot of guys that never developed at all. 

I mean, you act like he wasn't in a teams' evaluation process before he got hired.  I was critical of the '22 draft because it seemed like Minnesota focused heavily on floors, and completely ignored ceilings.  And aside from Jordan Addison, the Vikings really haven't found a 10+ year starter.  I'm still hopeful that Blackmon turns into something, but the last 2 classes haven't been inspiring by any means.

[HuskieBear]

Turner is going to get his sack numbers with Flores as his DC - but i'm not overly worried about him. MIN did well to not have to trade up for JJ. 

I thought Dejean was going to GB and he was going to haunt us - glad that didn't happen. GB seems to hit on OL unless it's round one, hopefully that trend continues

Of course the best corner in the draft ends up in DET. They've done really well drafting lately. Hopefully Rome makes Terrion (what kind of name is that anyways) his biatch

[malak1]

https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1783851429033066706

 

If we were a consistent winner, this franchise's value would dwarf probably every team except the Cowboys. 

Edited April 26 by malak1

[TankWilliams]

 

[HuskieBear]

14 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

 

yeah so far next season the vikings only have RD1 and 2 RD5s

[swede700]

31 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, you act like he wasn't in a teams' evaluation process before he got hired.

I hate that perspective and always have as someone else brought up that as well.  Certainly he was, but like it or not, teams are at different places in the cycle of building a team, and you need to know where your team is at before really being able to provide significant impact on the drafting process.  And let's not forget that unlike Poles, KAM was not a "football guy", he was an analytics guy.  He had to rely more on football guys' analyses than his own...so the football guys that had been there had far more input than the ones that were just coming in because they knew the teams' current strengths and weaknesses better than KAM and Grigson.  It was always going to be a longer learning curve for KAM than for a guy like Poles. 

And personally, I think Ingram can be a 10+ yr starter if he continues to develop.  He may not be developing quickly, but he is improving.   Have these last 2 drafts been inspiring?  Absolutely not.  But can they develop?  Certainly.  People have been conditioned to expect results immediately, but it doesn't always work out that way.    

[TankWilliams]

5 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I hate that perspective and always have as someone else brought up that as well.  Certainly he was, but like it or not, teams are at different places in the cycle of building a team, and you need to know where your team is at before really being able to provide significant impact on the drafting process.  And let's not forget that unlike Poles, KAM was not a "football guy", he was an analytics guy.  He had to rely more on football guys' analyses than his own...so the football guys that had been there had far more input than the ones that were just coming in because they knew the teams' current strengths and weaknesses better than KAM and Grigson.  It was always going to be a longer learning curve for KAM than for a guy like Poles. 

And personally, I think Ingram can be a 10+ yr starter if he continues to develop.  He may not be developing quickly, but he is improving.   Have these last 2 drafts been inspiring?  Absolutely not.  But can they develop?  Certainly.  People have been conditioned to expect results immediately, but it doesn't always work out that way.    

As someone who lives in Indianapolis, I can say that having Grigson in a senior role is not a good sign.... He made the most obvious pick at QB possible and hit with Luck, and then proceeded to do everything in his power to destroy Luck's career.  Seriously, his GM reign is among the worst I've ever seen.  Also, the idea that because KAM is from the analytics side gives him a pass on bad drafting is odd.  In the end it doesn't matter, if the picks don't do well, the team will eventually be bad.  An executive doesn't really get the opportunity for much of a learning curve, because bad drafting one or two season can be enough to tank a team long term, ask me how I know.

[Ty21]

20 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

yeah so far next season the vikings only have RD1 and 2 RD5s

When did they hire Ryan Pace

[swede700]

2 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

As someone who lives in Indianapolis, I can say that having Grigson in a senior role is not a good sign.... He made the most obvious pick at QB possible and hit with Luck, and then proceeded to do everything in his power to destroy Luck's career.  Seriously, his GM reign is among the worst I've ever seen.  Also, the idea that because KAM is from the analytics side gives him a pass on bad drafting is odd.  In the end it doesn't matter, if the picks don't do well, the team will eventually be bad.  An executive doesn't really get the opportunity for much of a learning curve, because bad drafting one or two season can be enough to tank a team long term, ask me how I know.

I give him a pass for that year, because I expected a learning curve. My evaluation of him began with last year's draft. It was better, but I can't say that it was great either. It's hard for me to ever envision the Vikings ever tanking long-term, because they never have. They'll have bad years here or there, but they've been remarkably consistent over decades. Some like to call it being stuck in the middle, but we have been blessed with some magical years, despite the never-stopping shoot ourselves in the foot moments. 

FWIW, I was never a fan of the Grigson hire either because of that track record in Indy. I honestly don't know how much influence he has, but I'm certain he has some significant part. He's been on the radio a few times and acknowledges a lot of the errors that he made in Indy and says he learned from them. He said one of his biggest mistakes was not being a great communicator and not listening as much as he should have.

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

I don't really care about that.  He really had only been in the building for 90 days when that draft occurred.  Obviously, your guy Poles was in the same position and he did a little better initially.  However, I still have some faith in the guys drafted in 2022 that are still on the team to be able to contribute.  They have 1 solid starter in Ingram and they got a bunch of guys who still have the opportunity to contribute significantly (Cine, Booth, Asamoah, Evans, Chander, Nailor and Muse)...they've just taken longer to develop.  The last handful of Spielman's drafts were just as bad, if not worse.  They got some hits certainly in Darrisaw and JJ, but also a lot of guys that never developed at all. 

Take a look at our last 10 first round picks before Wright.  LOL

 

[CWood21]

33 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I hate that perspective and always have as someone else brought up that as well.  Certainly he was, but like it or not, teams are at different places in the cycle of building a team, and you need to know where your team is at before really being able to provide significant impact on the drafting process.  And let's not forget that unlike Poles, KAM was not a "football guy", he was an analytics guy.  He had to rely more on football guys' analyses than his own...so the football guys that had been there had far more input than the ones that were just coming in because they knew the teams' current strengths and weaknesses better than KAM and Grigson.  It was always going to be a longer learning curve for KAM than for a guy like Poles. 

And personally, I think Ingram can be a 10+ yr starter if he continues to develop.  He may not be developing quickly, but he is improving.   Have these last 2 drafts been inspiring?  Absolutely not.  But can they develop?  Certainly.  People have been conditioned to expect results immediately, but it doesn't always work out that way.    

You can't just choose to ignore a chunk of data because it's inconvenient to the discussion.  Again, he was part of the Browns' operation as VP of Football Operations.  he may be an analytics guy at heart, but he was absolutely involved in the draft process in Cleveland while he was there.  It's not like he was in the marketing department, and they hired him as their GM.  That 2022 draft looks epically bad.  As a FRP, Lewis Cine has played in 10 defensive snaps in 2 seasons.  And an additional 118 snaps on ST.  That's what you expect a Day 3 pick, not a Day 1 pick.  Andrew Booth isn't much better at 256 defensive snaps over 2 years.  If you're banking on late round guys becoming something, you're better off banking on the lottery.

As for Ingram, he's been bad.  Serviceable, but bad.  He's 2 years into the league, and he's at best an average starting OG.

[HuskieBear]

11 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You can't just choose to ignore a chunk of data because it's inconvenient to the discussion.

but how would people be able to argue the points that back up their own thoughts? lets be reasonable here

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, TankWilliams said:

 

For two guys that have a lot of upside, but neither are close to sure things.

I mean in a vacuum where the players were drafted is fine.  About where they should go.  But we aren't in a vacuum.  

Vikings have been going in wrong direction in last few years in my opinion while other teams in division are not.   

[TankWilliams]

2 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

For two guys that have a lot of upside, but neither are close to sure things.

I mean in a vacuum where the players were drafted is fine.  About where they should go.  But we aren't in a vacuum.  

Vikings have been going in wrong direction in last few years in my opinion while other teams in division are not.   

It obviously all hinges on JJ succeeding.  I don't think he will.

[dll2000]

23 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

It obviously all hinges on JJ succeeding.  I don't think he will.

Maybe.  Harbaugh never really talked about another QB he had in such glowing terms before.

He is coming in young and without a lot of college passing reps or playing in difficult situations.

He has always been on good teams.  But then again he had a hand in that too.

But we will see how he deals with losing games on a big stage.  Never been through it before really.

I wonder if they sit him as a rookie.