Round 3 Pick 84 Steelers Draft WR Roman Wilson 5'11 185

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

I have 0 hope for him because his tape was bad

I'm not trying to convince you he is a sure fire #2 or anything, but I honestly thought his tape was a lot better than the results. He had multiple instances in games where he broke one and the ball either didn't make it to him or never came his way. 

A 5/50 week in and week out guy? Likely not. But someone who can get some run and serve a gameday purpose, I think so. 

But with the coaching change I think he is probably more likely to find his way off the team rather than carving his way to playing time. But I don't think he played that poorly for a role player career. The situation he was in was about as putrid as you could get though. 

[Magnus-Viktor]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

It’s so funny, because I’m so on the fence about the antics stuff.  Like, if it’s coming from a good place (IE I won my route and you stared at me but didn’t throw it) or out of coverage frustration (Pickens at times); I’m surprisingly OK with it.  But if it’s hurting the team (DJ giving up on a play), showmanship (Claypool’s first down signal), or jealousy (AB no showing a game because of Juju) I have no tolerance for it.

I can't stand ANY antics.  I don't get quite so pissed off over it, if it's being a competitor and it's constructive to an extent (making sure the QB knows to look for him, because he's getting open and beating his guy, so it's a favorable matchup moving forward), but I still don't like it.  When it's just a diva stuff, not blocking for your teammate, quitting on plays, acting all big and bad instead of doing your job, etc, they can drop dead as far as I'm concerned.  That's how pissed off I get.  I see a lot of people on here talking about Pickens being the answer at WR.  He's not a #1.  Not yet.  His attitude is not a #1 either.  I would've traded him in a heartbeat in this draft if we could've gotten a 1 or 2 out of him.  In a few years we'll undoubtedly have the contract issues with him too where his overinflated sense of self will make him think he's worth twice as much as he is.  The Vikings may have a mess brewing with Justin Jefferson, but at least Jefferson is arguably the best player in the entire league, and definitely the best WR.  (If I was the Vikings, I would've traded him for a pick to draft Drake Maye if possible, and used those other 2 first rounders on a WR or 2 to replace him, because I don't want that kind of cap space tied up in a WR, even if he is that elite.  Funny sidenote here on Jefferson, I had him pegged as the best WR at LSU, when all of the announcers were bragging on Chase.  Same thing happened back in the day when I'd watch LSU and the announcers were all over Landry, and ODB was the stud in my eyes.  Of course, I don't know everything.....I thought Zach Mettenberger was going to be great too, but turns out him making those great plays was just a result of those WRs lol)  

[bigben07MVP]

2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I'm not trying to convince you he is a sure fire #2 or anything, but I honestly thought his tape was a lot better than the results. He had multiple instances in games where he broke one and the ball either didn't make it to him or never came his way. 

A 5/50 week in and week out guy? Likely not. But someone who can get some run and serve a gameday purpose, I think so. 

But with the coaching change I think he is probably more likely to find his way off the team rather than carving his way to playing time. But I don't think he played that poorly for a role player career. The situation he was in was about as putrid as you could get though. 

It looked to me like he was playing injured. Like he was ok if you got him off to a running start or if he got a clean look off the LOS and asked him to run deep or horizontal. But I remember being enamored by his route running, acceleration, stop/start ability at Memphis and at the senior bowl and just didn't see any of that last year. I hope I am wrong because I was really high on him coming out. 

And yea his situation was bad, but the opportunity was not. When DJ went out for 4-5 weeks it was him, Pickens, and the corpse of Allen Robinson out there. He had 180 yards last year and 72 of those came on one catch.

[bigben07MVP]

https://x.com/russnfldraft/status/1489984024881905667?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

@Dcash4 this type of stuff is what was missing from his tape last year (in my opinion).

[MOSteelers56]

6 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

https://x.com/russnfldraft/status/1489984024881905667?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

@Dcash4 this type of stuff is what was missing from his tape last year (in my opinion).

There was a play last season that someone highlighted on here and CA3 looked horrible on it. I remember he was really sluggish in and out of his breaks. I was surprised to see it because I was under the impression that he looked more like the link you shared. I hope it was just an injury(maybe recovering from the foot?) because he doesn't have a lot else to fall back onto if his route running isn't sharp. He's built exclusively on pure long speed and route running. If one of those things are gone, he's not an NFL caliber player. 

[jebrick]

2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

https://x.com/russnfldraft/status/1489984024881905667?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

@Dcash4 this type of stuff is what was missing from his tape last year (in my opinion).

Because CAIII had 2 plays in the playbook.  Jet Sweep or fly.  Horribly misused.

[MOSteelers56]

17 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Because CAIII had 2 plays in the playbook.  Jet Sweep or fly.  Horribly misused.

I don’t know the stats but I think he got a lot more snaps as a Diontae replacement and probably ran more than just flies. I won’t argue that he was misused under the previous offensive regime, but he has had an opportunity, and he hasn’t shown too much.

[rlon]

3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I don’t know the stats but I think he got a lot more snaps as a Diontae replacement and probably ran more than just flies. I won’t argue that he was misused under the previous offensive regime, but he has had an opportunity, and he hasn’t shown too much.

I disagree that he hardly had a chance. Maybe he’s just not that good, or that well rounded. Even as a punt returner he was rather disappointing, though, so even if he’s a one trick pony, the trick itself is not all that impressive. When I heard he was the one player to give Sauce Gardner fits in college, I was hopeful…

[warfelg]

14 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

There was a play last season that someone highlighted on here and CA3 looked horrible on it. I remember he was really sluggish in and out of his breaks. I was surprised to see it because I was under the impression that he looked more like the link you shared. I hope it was just an injury(maybe recovering from the foot?) because he doesn't have a lot else to fall back onto if his route running isn't sharp. He's built exclusively on pure long speed and route running. If one of those things are gone, he's not an NFL caliber player. 

That was me I think.  It was an in route where he started his break and drifted about 6 yards up field.  Compare that to DK who usually does it in about 2 yards and GP who does it in about 4. He was telling breaks with his arms by sticking his elbows out. 

If it was injury and it was that bad, then why was he even playing? He was a net 0 on the field and makes no sense for him to be there if he's hurt.

I see a lot of the offense, quarterback, and play calling being blamed, and yes it's part of the issue.  Yet Pickens managed to have 1000+ yards, DJ would have had 1000+ yards with a full season, Najee had a total 1100+ yards, Warren had a total of 1000+ yards.

If you take his 1 start combined with his 4 other big contribution games and extrapolate that over an entire season it's good for 41 catches, 486 yards, 4 TD. And on the entire year he had only 11 carries. And just because I was curious the WR's with the most carries (and I know not all are the same): Deebo Samuel (37, 6.1ypc), Rondale Moore (28, 6.4ypc), Derius Davis (14, 7.2ypc), CeeDee Lamb (14, 8.1 ypc), Puka Nacua (12, 7.4ypc), Laviska Shenault (12, 4.6ypc).  And Austin and those near him: Austin (11, 5.2ypc), Tank Dell (11, 4.6ypc), Jayden Reed (11, 10.8ypc), Kadarius Toney (11, 2.8ypc), KaVontae Turpin (11, 10.0), Tre Tucker (10, 7.7ypc).  Andways, point made that there's really only one guy that sticks out there and it's Tank Dell because he was so good as a WR and just terrible at the carries.  All the other guys around Austins area (Shenault, Toney) aren't that great.

Anywho.  I hope that Austin turns into something, but there was more than just "bad offense" at play here.

[Dcash4]

16 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

But I remember being enamored by his route running, acceleration, stop/start ability at Memphis and at the senior bowl and just didn't see any of that last year. I hope I am wrong because I was really high on him coming out. 

As was I, but route running is also the hardest thing to do at the NFL level and last year was essentially his rookie season. The route running we saw from a guy like DJ was more nuanced in-route stuff than the NBA iso ball routes, like the video you shared. I don't think he had a ton of opportunity within this offense to just go win a route. 

Maybe he just sucks. Maybe he was hurt. Maybe he was just seeing his first game action in one of the worst NFL offenses ever. 

My thought is just that if he played with QB's that could get him the ball or with a competent OC, fan perception would be more on the side of "let him grow" because he should have carved out a roleplayer spot. He was much better on tape than in the box score. There were more plays like the Raiders game available to be made but QB's missed him like in the Bengals and Titans game or just flat out never looked his way. Our OC's were more enamored by using his speed in 2 wide sets to go horizontal on jet motion than stretching the field vertically. 

Anywho, my TLDR version is that I get the route running concerns, but I think the fan perception of a guy in his first NFL action would be far more patient had he been able to get some of the other looks as a role player he was "winning" on the field with. My comment was for your "no hope if he wasn't injured" part. IMO, there is more hope there even if he wasn't as a role player who might evolve in the most difficult area from "year 1" to year 2. 

But with a new OC and WR coach, it's pretty likely he doesn't make the club. We will see, but I'd like to see the growth potential. 

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

he should have carved out a roleplayer spot

Maybe this is the disconnect on the issue. That's what his role should be. But some have said WR2, which he shouldn't be penciled in for based on the lack of production in his role when DJ was out.

Edited April 30 by warfelg

[Dcash4]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

But some have said WR2

I haven't seen anyone calling for him the be the #2. 

It's hard to find video of non-plays for Calvin on Twitter for me to share, but this is an example of what I mean:

This one has nothing to do with route running, but if Kenny isn't god awful at recognizing the safety bailing (ruining the front side read), he would know the MOF if open and Austin's the look. This is an 11-12 yard pickup with potential to score based on the angle and his speed. 

Personally, I don't understand the "yeah, but without DJ" thing. He isn't a top 30 talented receiver, but on this play he doesn't have to be. Austin doesn't need to do anything different to produce on this play...his QB just needs to suck less. And if Kenny did suck less, I think the fan perception of Austin would be much different. 

3/24/0 hits very different in a box score than 4/56/1

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

This one has nothing to do with route running, but if Kenny isn't god awful at recognizing the safety bailing (ruining the front side read), he would know the MOF if open and Austin's the look. This is an 11-12 yard pickup with potential to score based on the angle and his speed. 

Take Kenny's play out of it though and just look at it in the lense of CAIII alone.  That wasn't great from a route running or stacking the DB. The DB gave him free inside release because he knew he had inside LB help and over the top S help.  That might have been more challenged than you think.

Yes it's a failure to bail on a clean pocket, never make your progression over there, on and on.

 

Anywho, moving on.  A role player isn't worth dying on a hill for.

[warfelg]

End of the day here’s what’s likely to happen:

Pickens is WR1. 

Without a trade Jefferson and Wilson are battling for WR2 with the “loser” being WR3. 

WR5 will be a special teams gunner. 

WR4 will be the battle for a roster spot between Watkins and Austin. 

[Dcash4]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Take Kenny's play out of it though and just look at it in the lense of CAIII alone.

I did...he is wide open by NFL standards. It's literally why I shared it.

I've mentioned above it has nothing to do with route running. If he does nothing different this should be at minimum a 10-12 yard play. Now, imagine if he was given the plays like that and improved from his first action in the NFL to the next year?

Anywho, I think his full tape is better than his fan perception at this moment. That's all. 

@bigben07MVP found this one while I was cruising around twitter from last year and thought I'd share. Looks a lot like what we had hoped after that senior bowl tape:

I would just really like to see what he is in his second year of action. I think his ceiling is a #3 receiver, but I'd like to see what growth comes in year 2 (read:3).