Post-Draft Talk

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, Danger said:

Keenan Allen is gone after this season, and Odunze and Caleb seem to get along incredibly. 

Still, WR3 > TE2 IMO

Odunze is going to be a perennial 1,000 yard likely top 10 kinda WR by probably 2025 or 2026 season. And the Bears have way more of a filled out roster than the Raiders do, like ok, if it was the Ravens who took Brock Bowers with the 13th overall pick somehow, I get it, their roster is fairly complete, you guys have WAY too many holes, and not really anyone to throw the ball either in the mean time.

Lol Bowers isn't a TE2...

Keenan Allen and DJ Moore have a ton of history of being great WR's in the NFL. Michael Mayer is coming off a 300 yard season. These 2 situations with Odunze/Bower aren't even remotely comparible. Bowers immediately is the best TE on the Raiders, Odunze isn't a top 2 WR on the Bears this season. Bowers also has the potential to be a 1,000 yard elite TE in the NFL, but will need the Raiders to invest in a QB next year.

Edited May 3 by tyler735

[Danger]

1 minute ago, tyler735 said:

Lol Bowers isn't a TE2...

Keenan Allen and DJ Moore have a ton of history of being great WR's in the NFL. Michael Mayer is coming off a 300 yard season. These 2 situations with Odunze/Bower aren't even remotely comparible. Bowers immediately is the best TE on the Raiders, Odunze isn't a top 2 WR on the Bears this season. 

The bigger issue at hand isn't inherently Bowers. It's taking any TE at 13th overall when your roster is as poor as Las Vegas' is. TE is a low value position, and wasn't a need. If you can afford a luxury pick, I understand it, but they really can't. It's like taking Kyle Pitts at 4th overall, absolutely stupid decision for long term success.

[tyler735]

Just now, Danger said:

The bigger issue at hand isn't inherently Bowers. It's taking any TE at 13th overall when your roster is as poor as Las Vegas' is. TE is a low value position, and wasn't a need. If you can afford a luxury pick, I understand it, but they really can't. It's like taking Kyle Pitts at 4th overall, absolutely stupid decision for long term success.

Yet recent history has shown an elite TE often times a centerpiece to some of the best teams in the NFL.

[Danger]

4 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Yet recent history has shown an elite TE often times a centerpiece to some of the best teams in the NFL.

Yeah but what those teams also had? Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes, the two best QBs of all time. Sure having a good TE is nice, but the success comes because of the sheer dominance of the QB throwing him the ball. 

[Daniel]

26 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Yet recent history has shown an elite TE often times a centerpiece to some of the best teams in the NFL.

Recent history also has those elite TEs not coming from the first round.

TE is a risky pick.  I don't think Bowers at 13, in a vacuum, is bad.  I think it's about where he should go.  But it's definitely not a big steal in any way.  And it's worse when they just spent a high pick on a do it all TE.  If they plan on just using a ton of 2 TE sets, then I guess it makes sense, but I'm pretty sure they had a lot of other needs.

I have the Raiders as like one of the worst drafts this year.

[tyler735]

19 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Recent history also has those elite TEs not coming from the first round.

Recent history does however show early drafted (Rounds 1-2) TE's are often developing into very good players. Sam Laporta, Trey Mcbride, Dalton Kincaid, David Njoku, Evan Engram, TJ Hockenson, Cole Kmet, and the jury is still out on Kyle Pitts now that he has a real QB (well 2 of them now to be precise lol) all have played well this past year.

Those are all guys I think you could argue are top 10/top 12 with some looking to be the future elite players of the TE position. In 2023, the aforementioned TE's made up 8 of the top 11 TE's in receiving yards. If Bowers hits, that will only increase this outlook even further. I'm sure there will be plenty of teams kicking themselves for not taking a guy like Laporta in the 1st instead of at pick 34. I don't see drafting a TE in the 1st being as big of a risk as some do, especially a prospect like Bowers that is arguably the best receiving threat I've seen at TE in 25 years of following the draft. 

Now I won't deny the Raiders maybe shouldn't have been the team to pull the trigger on Bowers given their roster situation, but I have no problem with Bowers as a top 15 pick.

Edited May 3 by tyler735

[Dr A W Niloc]

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

I have the Raiders as like one of the worst drafts this year.

It certainly is, but TE Brock Bowers was their best pick.  Hosed out of a top 5 QB and now stuck with gator armed Gardner Minshew the Raiders took a big, slow moving, close target in a premium Tight End.  Sadly, Las Vegas had desired players go right before their pick at every turn.  They ended up filling only one of their three needs and scored only one starter (i.e. the aforementioned Bowers).

Pix PFFR DraftBz 40Yd  Las Vegas Raiders College   Team Pstn Dif  Tall Lbs
 C+      Rk-Rtng
13. 84.4  1-91.1 4.48  Brock Bowers      Georgia   Rdrs  TE1 -57  6'4" 240
44. 84.3  1-86.1 5.00  J PowersJohnson   Oregon    Rdrs  OC1 -53  6'3" 320
77. 73.6 37-79.8 5.18  Delmar Glaze      Maryland  Rdrs OT18 -16  6'5" 328
112 86.4 36-80.3 4.34 ~Decam Richardson  Miss St   Rdrs CB15 +55  6'2" 195
148 ----  9-81.3 4.69  Tommy Eichenberg  Ohio St   Rdrs LB11 -36  6'2" 239
208 81.6 14-80.8 4.54  Dylan Laube       NewHampsh Rdrs RB19 ---  5'10 208
223 83.9 19-77.0 4.50  Trey Taylor       Air Force Rdrs SS17 -69  6'0" 210
229 ---- 45-79.2 4.45  M.J. Devonshire   Pittsbrg  Rdrs CB33 +70  5'11 186

I'd have preferred a more Draft 4 Need approach:

Pix PFFR DraftBz 40Yd  Las Vegas Raiders College   Team Pstn Dif  Tall Lbs
         Rk-Rtng
13. 84.4  1-91.1 4.48  Brock Bowers      Georgia   Rdrs  TE1 -57  6'4" 240
44. 82.7  8-86.5 4.90  Kris Jenkins      Michigan  Rdrs  DT7 -51  6'3" 305
77* 90.1 15-82.5 4.49  Jarrian Jones     FloridaSt Edrs CB13 -59  6'0" 191
112 77.9  3-84.1 5.27  Sedrk Van Pran    Georgia   Rdrs  OC4 -57  6'4" 310
150 77.6  7-83.7 4.78  Spencer Rattler   SCarolina Rdrs  QB7 +51  6'0" 215
208 85.7 38-81.8 4.42  Kamal Hadden      Tennessee Rdrs CB30 -13  6'1" 197
223 82.5 75-65.0 5.20  Michael Jurgens   WakeFrst  Rdrs G/C9 +47  6'4" 311
229 84.3 23-78.1 4.50  Michael Barrett   Michigan  Rdrs  LB8 -51  6'0" 239

In any event, next year's QB crop rates to be fairly good, with fewer teams vapor locked on that position. 

Actually, the Raiders are a sound team but this won't be evident without a top 16 QB.

 

 

Edited May 4 by Dr A W Niloc
Typo

[RaidersAreOne]

11 hours ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

the Raiders took a big, slow moving, close target in a premium Tight End.

I am getting confused with your formatting so maybe I am misunderstanding, but are you referring to Bowers as a slow moving TE?

Quote

They ended up filling only one of their three needs and scored only one starter (i.e. the aforementioned Bowers).

Did you completely ignore the very next pick in JPJ? He was arguably the best IOL and an instant plug and play G day one and eventual C for many years. Not to mention Eichenberg is likely a day one starter at LB and Laube at KR/PR. The rest are highly athletic projects with good college production and traits at positions of need. So I am not quite understanding your argument except for not going after QB.

In your preferred draft you would have rather the Raiders waited until round 4 to target their biggest need which was OL? That would have been an enormous fumble.

[Dr A W Niloc]

3 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I am getting confused with your formatting so maybe I am misunderstanding, but are you referring to Bowers as a slow moving TE?

A big, slow moving, close target compared to a WR, yes.  (Some were pounding the table for a wideout here.)

Sorry for not providing a legend:

Key:

Pik = Order in the NFL Draft.
PFFR = Players PFF Rating in college.
DrafttBuz-Rk-Rating = Rank and Rating from DraftBuzz.
40Yd = 40 Yard Dash time
Pstn = Position and order taken among those at that position.
Dif = Differential between College team's ranking and their average foe's.

A big minus differential shows a good college team pounding rabbits.

Quote

In your preferred draft you would have rather the Raiders waited until round 4 to target their biggest need which was OL? That would have been an enormous fumble.

It would be if I agreed that a 10-35-9-8-24 (LT-LG-OC-RG-RT) O-Line with top 18 win rates created a need.  Nor do I think that a mediocre backup OT such as Delmar Glaze will help.  I did get a top 4 Center, though.

[bomont]

Re the Bowers pick, great talent but stupid pick. As stated before, they already have a great TE and far bigger needs. 

More random post-draft thoughts:

- Cowboys don't draft a RB despite severe need. doh.
- Bucs and Colts both had serious CB needs. Neither drafted any...and the Colts in particular could have had the best in the country with their #1 pick. doh.
- Eagles just nailed this draft.
- I liked what the Rams did as well. If Stafford can continue to play at a high level, don't count them out.
- Falcons, great pick with Penix.

Kidding on that last one, just seeing if you're paying attention. Yet as dumb as it was, if Cousins (who is oldish for a QB and has an injury history) gets banged up and Penix comes out and tears it up, suddenly doesn't look quite as stupid. 

 

[Chiefer]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:45 AM, tyler735 said:

Yet recent history has shown an elite TE often times a centerpiece to some of the best teams in the NFL.

this is true, but you still need a QB or it doesn’t really matter 

Edited May 6 by Chiefer

[Soko]

On 5/4/2024 at 12:07 PM, Dr A W Niloc said:

A big, slow moving, close target compared to a WR, yes.  (Some were pounding the table for a wideout here.)

Tbf, he ran a faster 40 than either of the top WRs on the Raiders…

[Hunter2_1]

On 5/6/2024 at 5:55 AM, bomont said:

Re the Bowers pick, great talent but stupid pick. As stated before, they already have a great TE and far bigger needs. 

More random post-draft thoughts:

- Cowboys don't draft a RB despite severe need. doh.
- Bucs and Colts both had serious CB needs. Neither drafted any...and the Colts in particular could have had the best in the country with their #1 pick. doh.
- Eagles just nailed this draft.
- I liked what the Rams did as well. If Stafford can continue to play at a high level, don't count them out.
- Falcons, great pick with Penix.

Kidding on that last one, just seeing if you're paying attention. Yet as dumb as it was, if Cousins (who is oldish for a QB and has an injury history) gets banged up and Penix comes out and tears it up, suddenly doesn't look quite as stupid. 

 

😂 nearly got me

[tyler735]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/terrion-arnold-raiders-told-me-it-was-a-coin-flip-between-me-and-brock-bowers-at-no-13

As a Saints fan I’m conflicted about this. I’d be lying if I said Brock Bowers wasn’t the top target I wanted the Saints to grab in this draft (that could realistically fall to them). In the end, it’s probably more beneficial for us to land a quality plug and play RT given our OL situation, but it does kind of suck to lose out on a chance to draft Bowers over a coin flip lol.

[RaidersAreOne]

On 5/9/2024 at 6:26 AM, tyler735 said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/terrion-arnold-raiders-told-me-it-was-a-coin-flip-between-me-and-brock-bowers-at-no-13

As a Saints fan I’m conflicted about this. I’d be lying if I said Brock Bowers wasn’t the top target I wanted the Saints to grab in this draft (that could realistically fall to them). In the end, it’s probably more beneficial for us to land a quality plug and play RT given our OL situation, but it does kind of suck to lose out on a chance to draft Bowers over a coin flip lol.

It's BS.