broncos67 Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 9 hours ago, AKRNA said: Outside of Nix the entire draft looked like BPA in every round. We could use another year or two of that. Or more. We need a talent influx so badly after how many god awful drafts we've gone through in the last decade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 14 hours ago, AKRNA said: Outside of Nix the entire draft looked like BPA in every round. We could use another year or two of that. Dr. I concur. It was a nice draft to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 On 5/23/2024 at 8:17 AM, Dbrog24 said: Yup I think the same and the style itself should win us more than a few games against the teams we're facing. That's why I don't buy everyone talking about us being a bottom 3 team. Again I'm not sure why people would say that as we've had significantly worse teams than this with significantly worse coaching and haven't been even in the bottom 5. I could see anywhere from 6-9 wins depending on how we look on the 2nd half of the season (Payton teams usually come on stronger then) Because our defense is absolutely abysmal and there's no way our offense will be able to overcome that obstacle. We have no idea what we have in our QB's...even if Nix is good, his first year won't be spectacular enough to get us "W's". Vance Joseph might get fired before the season is over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 21 minutes ago, The Helicopter said: Vance Joseph might get fired before the season is over... I think that could happen sooner rather than later - Leonhard is waiting in the wings 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 49 minutes ago, The Helicopter said: Because our defense is absolutely abysmal and there's no way our offense will be able to overcome that obstacle. We have no idea what we have in our QB's...even if Nix is good, his first year won't be spectacular enough to get us "W's". Vance Joseph might get fired before the season is over... Are we though? By most accounts we were middle of the pack last year. I mean I was quite vocal last year about how awful a downgrade Vance was but he kept things solid most games, surprisingly...and that was despite our abysmal offense. I expect much the same this year. We didn't lose much and gained some interesting pieces. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 1 hour ago, The Helicopter said: Because our defense is absolutely abysmal and there's no way our offense will be able to overcome that obstacle. We have no idea what we have in our QB's...even if Nix is good, his first year won't be spectacular enough to get us "W's". Vance Joseph might get fired before the season is over... I hope you realize that this is always my most optimistic time of year. We've got months yet to be drug back to reality. You're raining on my fantasy parade.😉 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 3 hours ago, Dbrog24 said: Are we though? By most accounts we were middle of the pack last year. I mean I was quite vocal last year about how awful a downgrade Vance was but he kept things solid most games, surprisingly...and that was despite our abysmal offense. I expect much the same this year. We didn't lose much and gained some interesting pieces. Anything is possible, and I hope they play well, but until I see it, I won't believe it. Every team drafted players and signed free agents so we are no different from them on a basic level. I'm way down on Paton, I mean, after the Wilson debacle how many years does it take to recover? We are in such a big hole... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 On 5/30/2024 at 11:59 PM, The Helicopter said: I'm way down on Paton, I mean, after the Wilson debacle how many years does it take to recover? We are in such a big hole... I think it is pretty clear at this stage that the hiring of Hackett and the trade for Wilson were not on Paton - but on Ellis and Elway. Paton wanted Quinn as HC - it was Elway (with Ellis) who overruled Quinn for Hackett in the expectation that he would bring Rodgers - and when that fell apart, it was Elway (with Ellis) that went for the trade for Wilson. He was trying to replicate what he did with Manning and it was designed as a last splash before the sale to the Walmarts - and it proved a disaster. I don't think people realise how little power Paton had when it came to making these decisions after he was made GM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 8 hours ago, jolly red giant said: I think it is pretty clear at this stage that the hiring of Hackett and the trade for Wilson were not on Paton - but on Ellis and Elway. Paton wanted Quinn as HC - it was Elway (with Ellis) who overruled Quinn for Hackett in the expectation that he would bring Rodgers - and when that fell apart, it was Elway (with Ellis) that went for the trade for Wilson. He was trying to replicate what he did with Manning and it was designed as a last splash before the sale to the Walmarts - and it proved a disaster. I don't think people realise how little power Paton had when it came to making these decisions after he was made GM I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing this. What about the contract extension...Elway and Ellis? So, what this means is the jury is still out on Paton? I've heard some grumblings about his drafts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 10 hours ago, jolly red giant said: I think it is pretty clear at this stage that the hiring of Hackett and the trade for Wilson were not on Paton - but on Ellis and Elway. Paton wanted Quinn as HC - it was Elway (with Ellis) who overruled Quinn for Hackett in the expectation that he would bring Rodgers - and when that fell apart, it was Elway (with Ellis) that went for the trade for Wilson. He was trying to replicate what he did with Manning and it was designed as a last splash before the sale to the Walmarts - and it proved a disaster. I don't think people realise how little power Paton had when it came to making these decisions after he was made GM I understand the argument, but it's not clear to me at all. Elway was released, then re-hired as an outside consultant to Paton in Feb, 2022. He no longer had any decision making authority. Now, the hiring of Hackett and firing of Fangio occurred while Elway was still President of Football Operations, that's true, but 5 days after hiring hackett Elway left the team and was re-hired as an independent consultant. The firing of all Fangios staff, trade and contract for Wilson and all subsequent decisions are on Paton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaBronco Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Ya, unless somebody has some reliable insider info I don't think we will ever know for sure who wanted what and who was calling the shots during the transition. Feel like timing wise it would make sense that Paton had quite a bit of input though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) Yeah I’m pretty sure Hackett was hired by George, not Elway and Ellis. They had the team legally on the market for sale at that time, Ellis and Elway were one foot out the door. There is finally beginning to be the look of some young talent potential on this roster. What’s interesting is we have veteran lines on both sides of the ball, with youth around them, that should be a stabilizing force and I can’t think of better places to have experience than those two units when you’re rebuilding. Edited June 4 by AnAngryAmerican 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Yeah I’m pretty sure Hackett was hired by George, not Elway and Ellis. The had the team legally in the market for sale at that time, Ellis and Elway were one foot out the door. There is finally beginning to be the look of some young talent potential on this roster. What’s interesting is we have veteran lines on both sides of the ball, with youth around them, that should be a stabilizing force and I can’t think of better places to have experience than those two units when you’re rebuilding. I think that's our one real positive. We're severely lacking in impact players across the board but our lines on both sides of the LOS look pretty stable. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised at our new DL rotation. No real stars but solid NFL vets. You'll probably know before the rest of us but I'm most curious about which center starts out lining up with the 1's. I do remember Elway making the point, many times, that Hackett was Georges hire. I thought at the time it was nice of him to give George the credit. using 20/20 hindsight it was probably more like trying to distance himself from the decision. Edited June 4 by AKRNA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Paton was told by Elway and Ellis that he was not to hire a defensive coach - they wanted to shine things up for the sale to the Walmarts and hiring Hackett leading to the prospect of getting Rodgers overruled everything else. While Elway pulled a masterstroke getting Manning (and then hiring Kubiak) - his tenure in the five years post SB win was a disaster. Yet he continued to believe that he could pull off one more masterstroke to cement his legacy as both a player and GM/President of FO. For Ellis it was all about shining up the new toy for the Walmarts. I think it is naive to think that Elway had zero influence in the hiring of Hackett. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 8 hours ago, jolly red giant said: Paton was told by Elway and Ellis that he was not to hire a defensive coach - they wanted to shine things up for the sale to the Walmarts and hiring Hackett leading to the prospect of getting Rodgers overruled everything else. While Elway pulled a masterstroke getting Manning (and then hiring Kubiak) - his tenure in the five years post SB win was a disaster. Yet he continued to believe that he could pull off one more masterstroke to cement his legacy as both a player and GM/President of FO. For Ellis it was all about shining up the new toy for the Walmarts. I think it is naive to think that Elway had zero influence in the hiring of Hackett. While Elway's tenure after the SB win wasn't great, I wouldn't call it a disaster (Unless you're putting Hackett and Russ + extension on him in which case it definitely was). He took some shots on QBs (Osweiler and Lock) while also keeping our cap situation in fantastic shape. We never overpaid for aging vets (Malik Jackson, Wolfe, Harris, etc.) and kept good talent across the board. There's a reason why so many were saying our team was a QB away (which wasn't totally accurate but Russ + roster turnover exacerbated that). I think people tend to give him a negative for the Sutton and Patrick extensions also but all things considered they're not overpaid. Sutton is currently being paid as the 25th WR which is a high end #2/low end #1 (which imo is accurate) and Patrick's deal was more of an unfortunate injury situation. Unfortunately he didn't draft great (not horrible either but lower third I'd say) but the cap flexibility he maintained while waiting to land a true QBotf I think was smart. He just missed on the shots he did take. Maybe i'm overrating the cap flexibility though. The Fangio/Hackett hirings I have a hard time putting that all on Elway's shoulders too. It was widely reported he really wanted Kyle Shannahan and that would have been a home run hire but was blocked by Ellis and thus started the entire cascading effect of poor coaches and personnel choices. Edited June 4 by grizmo78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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