2024 Team Outlook

[AnAngryAmerican]

12 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I think that's our one real positive. We're severely lacking in impact players across the board but our lines on both sides of the LOS look pretty stable. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised at our new DL rotation.  No real stars but solid NFL vets. 

You'll probably know before the rest of us but I'm most curious about which center starts out lining up with the 1's.

I do remember Elway making the point, many times, that Hackett was Georges hire. I thought at the time it was nice of him to give George the credit. using 20/20 hindsight it was probably more like trying to distance himself from the decision.

From I’ve heard/read from those who’ve been at OTAs it’s been that Forsyth has been getting a lot of first team reps, which makes sense given he has a rapport with Nix. 

However, I did hear Klis say the other day not to read too much into what we see at mini camp and OTAs as they’re really going with a salad bowl of combinations at the positions where there isn’t a clearly entrenched starter. 

What I think is important for the long-term prospects of the team is finding the right starting C and QB early and allowing the OL and the OL-QB pairing to grow together during camp and preseason games. They’re going to mix in RBs and I’m sure receivers too, but getting the OL set and QB1 in place quickly will help, especially long term.

No one, and I mean no one (other than the local media fanboys searching for clickbait or trying to get in the good graces of the team) expects us to go anywhere this year. I’ve said it all along, start the kids, let them take their lumps and grow together. If Nix starts week 1, plays all 17 games, shows no improvement and we go 3-14, so what? We get a better lot of draft picks and further supplement the roster. 

That said, if we go 3-14 in 2025 and Nix et al haven’t shown significant improvement, then we blow it all up, fire everyone and start over.

I like a lot of what they’re doing, it’s not going to be perfect and there will be surprises, good and bad, but I don’t think the second option is very likely. 

[jolly red giant]

15 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

The Fangio/Hackett hirings I have a hard time putting that all on Elway's shoulders too. It was widely reported he really wanted Kyle Shannahan and that would have been a home run hire but was blocked by Ellis and thus started the entire cascading effect of poor coaches and personnel choices. 

I think Elway should have gone into a full rebuild once Kubiak retired - and if he hired Kyle Shanahan a full rebuild would have happened.

It is accurate that Ellis blocked the hiring of Kyle Shanahan - resulting in the awful hiring of Vance Joseph. Ellis also blocked the hiring of Mike, Kubiak and Phillips when Elway wanted to sack VJ after year one. The animosity of Ellis towards the Shanahans is responsible for most of what has gone on over the past few years.

Fangio was all Elway - and he has to take the blame for hiring someone who was a coordinator and didn't know how to do anything other than be a coordinator - and then went playing musical chairs with the OC while trying to plug and play journeymen QBs. Ellis was happy to go along with this as it 

I think it is clear that Elway (with Ellis) had 'influence' in the hiring of Hackett. Paton wanted Dan Quinn - and Quinn wanted to work with Paton in Denver. But Elway and Ellis wanted to make a splash - and ruled out a defensive HC - pushing Hackett in the hopes of getting Rodgers. Now if that had been successful it would probably have been worth it - because Rodgers would have done his own thing on the field and Hackett would have been largely a bystander in OC terms on the sideline. After Rodgers turned them down - panic stations set in - the trade happened and Hackett was completely out of his depth.

There were massive red flags with Hackett (mentioned on here at the time) - whereas Quinn, at worst, would have been a very solid HC hire (something that was probably necessary at the time after Fangio's stint of not doing the job he was hired to do). Personally I cannot see any GM making his first HC hire risking hiring an untried coach who had, at best, a poor coaching record, who played darts with Rodgers and clearly was a bit of a clown, rather than hiring someone he knew well, knew what he was capable of, who he had a good relationship with and who wanted to work with him. You do the math.

[AKRNA]

On 6/4/2024 at 10:43 AM, AnAngryAmerican said:

From I’ve heard/read from those who’ve been at OTAs it’s been that Forsyth has been getting a lot of first team reps, which makes sense given he has a rapport with Nix. 

However, I did hear Klis say the other day not to read too much into what we see at mini camp and OTAs as they’re really going with a salad bowl of combinations at the positions where there isn’t a clearly entrenched starter. 

What I think is important for the long-term prospects of the team is finding the right starting C and QB early and allowing the OL and the OL-QB pairing to grow together during camp and preseason games. They’re going to mix in RBs and I’m sure receivers too, but getting the OL set and QB1 in place quickly will help, especially long term.

No one, and I mean no one (other than the local media fanboys searching for clickbait or trying to get in the good graces of the team) expects us to go anywhere this year. I’ve said it all along, start the kids, let them take their lumps and grow together. If Nix starts week 1, plays all 17 games, shows no improvement and we go 3-14, so what? We get a better lot of draft picks and further supplement the roster. 

That said, if we go 3-14 in 2025 and Nix et al haven’t shown significant improvement, then we blow it all up, fire everyone and start over.

I like a lot of what they’re doing, it’s not going to be perfect and there will be surprises, good and bad, but I don’t think the second option is very likely. 

Good football talk. I ever tell ya I love talking football?

Anyway, I think Forsyth is the guy. @broncos_fan _from _uk got me looking at him a few years ago so I've seen way more of him than our other two. His hands and feet are good enough but what sticks out to me is his "spatial awareness" for lack of a better term. Eyes in the back of his head and is always where he needs to be. It's something Cush doesn't have naturally. I think Forsyth could be a good one. Seems to have a mean streak too, definitely a plus when your chosen profession has you fighting 300lb+ plus mean SOB's for an hour every Sunday.

As far as a rookie QB, I'm not really committed. Nine times out of ten it's usually a bad idea. Worst case for a rookie QB is what the Jets do. Bring in a 22 yo kid to a lousy team in a huge market. Make him a millionaire, give him a  bad OL, bad coaching, then tell him the future of the franchise is in your hands. Lack of maturity,  mentalfocus, emotional response...... usually lead to failure. Unfortunately, that's what happens to the best of them since they always go to the worst teams.

Best case is Mahomes. Goes to an excellent, stable, winning franchise with great coaching, OL and offensive weapons.  Sits for a year behind a solid NFL vet QB then takes the reins and starts winning SB's.

We're neither, but IMO closer to the second scenario than the first. Our OL might be pretty good, same with our skill positions. Second year in the same offense but time to take it from the Russ version to Seans version. Much deadlier downfield, with the right QB. It isn't a terrible position for a rookie. That said, I'd rather keep Nix on the bench, even knowing he's our future, for the first four or five games. By then we'll have defined ourselves and he won't feel the "hero" pressure the media will toss at him.

I really like the kid, I just want to put him in the best spot to succeed with as little pressure as possible.

 

Edited June 10 by AKRNA

[jsthomp2007]

On 6/4/2024 at 2:43 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

From I’ve heard/read from those who’ve been at OTAs it’s been that Forsyth has been getting a lot of first team reps, which makes sense given he has a rapport with Nix. 

However, I did hear Klis say the other day not to read too much into what we see at mini camp and OTAs as they’re really going with a salad bowl of combinations at the positions where there isn’t a clearly entrenched starter. 

What I think is important for the long-term prospects of the team is finding the right starting C and QB early and allowing the OL and the OL-QB pairing to grow together during camp and preseason games. They’re going to mix in RBs and I’m sure receivers too, but getting the OL set and QB1 in place quickly will help, especially long term.

No one, and I mean no one (other than the local media fanboys searching for clickbait or trying to get in the good graces of the team) expects us to go anywhere this year. I’ve said it all along, start the kids, let them take their lumps and grow together. If Nix starts week 1, plays all 17 games, shows no improvement and we go 3-14, so what? We get a better lot of draft picks and further supplement the roster. 

That said, if we go 3-14 in 2025 and Nix et al haven’t shown significant improvement, then we blow it all up, fire everyone and start over.

I like a lot of what they’re doing, it’s not going to be perfect and there will be surprises, good and bad, but I don’t think the second option is very likely. 

Forsyth does make sense since Nix has already had his hands on his balls already; familiarity is key. I mean that is why we get married, right?  We know who is handling our balls.  

Edited June 11 by jsthomp2007

[AnAngryAmerican]

Should we be concerned that the super computer QB, aka Bo Nix, is noticeably behind Stidham through 3/4 of off-season workouts? Or should we take it as a “he’s a rookie and Sean is making him earn his job,” kind of thing? 

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Should we be concerned that the super computer QB, aka Bo Nix, is noticeably behind Stidham through 3/4 of off-season workouts? Or should we take it as a “he’s a rookie and Sean is making him earn his job,” kind of thing? 

I would have been shocked if Stidham wasn’t clearly the #1 guy through OTAs + minicamp. He has every advantage. This becomes more interesting a couple weeks into training camp. 

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Should we be concerned that the super computer QB, aka Bo Nix, is noticeably behind Stidham through 3/4 of off-season workouts? Or should we take it as a “he’s a rookie and Sean is making him earn his job,” kind of thing? 

Not at all. I'd be shocked if he wasn't.

Stidham is no stiff. I won't go into everything I've read about him but two things stand out. He won the SEC Rookie of the year in 2017 and is only the 2nd QB in NFL history to throw for 3 TD's and over 300 yards in his first NFL start. 

It's also the first time in his career he's actually competing for a starting job. Brady's backup, Cam Newton's backup, year off for back surgery, Derek Carrs backup and finally Wilsons backup. He's quite skilled, highly motivated and is working on the 300 classes in Seans offense instead of Air Coryell 101.

[broncos67]

12 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Should we be concerned that the super computer QB, aka Bo Nix, is noticeably behind Stidham through 3/4 of off-season workouts? Or should we take it as a “he’s a rookie and Sean is making him earn his job,” kind of thing? 

Not at all lol. Stidham has the longest tenure in the system. By all accounts Nix has been okay, some ups and downs, which is to be expected. Sounds like yesterday he had some great throws. I expect he'll close the gap with Stidham in training camp. Payton has been gassing him up - not typical of a rookie QB/coach at this time of year.

[AKRNA]

17 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Not at all lol. Stidham has the longest tenure in the system. By all accounts Nix has been okay, some ups and downs, which is to be expected. Sounds like yesterday he had some great throws. I expect he'll close the gap with Stidham in training camp. Payton has been gassing him up - not typical of a rookie QB/coach at this time of year.

I like the Stidham/Nix pairing. A bit of trivia, Nix went to Auburn when he was being recruited out of HS and Stidham's the guy that showed him around. Apparently they get along quite well.

I think Wilson will be traded during camp. There are always a few teams who have a QB go down then and Wilson's value will be at it's highest.

[AKRNA]

have they had any contact yet? I was hoping to hear a bit more about the O and D lines but not much to say if they're not hitting.

[AnAngryAmerican]

On 6/13/2024 at 12:17 AM, AKRNA said:

I like the Stidham/Nix pairing. A bit of trivia, Nix went to Auburn when he was being recruited out of HS and Stidham's the guy that showed him around. Apparently they get along quite well.

I think Wilson will be traded during camp. There are always a few teams who have a QB go down then and Wilson's value will be at it's highest.

If Wilson doesn’t make the team, there is no way we get anything for him in a trade. If Sean goes with just Stidham and Nix, they’ll release Wilson and try to sneak him onto the PS. I don’t think any team out there would give us even a conditional 7th for him. 

In other news, however, I think they need to move Sutton before camp kicks off. We have such a young team, from reports Patrick looks superb and Vele has been a very pleasant surprise. We also have Mims, Franklin, Humphrey, Johnson and Reynolds. No reason to crowd out the kids’ development in a rebuilding year for a declining veteran who is showing signs of being a malcontent. If you get a 3rd or 4th for him, or even a 5th + a 6th like we got for Jeudy, ship him out. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

As far as the QBs, from what I’ve heard and read about OTAs and mini camp, it’s clearly been Stidham 1, Nix 2 but close and Wilson a distant 3rd. 

If that holds through the opening of camp, Sean needs to give Nix a half and Stidham a half in the first preseason game. If Nix remains 2 but is gaining, and plays well in his half, name him the starter. If Stidham remainis and unquestioned 1, name him the starter. 

What I would HATE, even more than Stidham being named the starter, would be to drag this out until Labor Day. Sean cannot be so delusional as to think that he’s gaining some kind of competitive advantage over our early season opponents by dragging this out. 

Something they do need to consider, however, is the fan base reaction. You don’t want to create an air of negativity and pessimism around the team. The fan base will tolerate losing games and seeing a rookie QB go through rookie struggles, they won’t tolerate seeing the team lose with a mediocre veteran who everyone knows is not the long term answer. 

My beat reporter friend - again, someone you all know of and respect - said that if a QB camp battle drags on, the veterans will naturally rally around the more experienced QB, consciously or unconsciously, and that can cause problems in the locker room. Sean has to play the long game with big picture in mind. 

Mike made one big mistake in his final years here. He rightly recognized in 2006 that we weren’t winning a Super Bowl with Jake Plummer, so he traded up and drafted Jay Cutler - in the same draft also landed Dumervil, Marshall, Sheffler, and others - and undertook the first real rebuild of his tenure. The mistake came when he, midseason with the team I believe 7-3, benched Plummer for Cutler. That lost the locker room. He should have either a) started Cutler in week one and told the vets to live with it or, b) in hindsight what I would have done, rode out 2006 with Plummer and likely a wild card round loss, and then moved on from him after the season, naming Cutler the week 1 starter in 2007.

Now, the parallels aren’t all there - the 2006  team was a very veteran squad who had been to the AFCCG the season prior while the 2024 team is youth movement rebuild. But even if he’s just marginally better, Stidham cannot start. If he’s much better, I get it, and it raises concerns about Nix whose selling points were his experience, maturity, processing ability and overall “pro ready-ness,” but if it’s even kind of close, you have start Nix and let him and the young skill position players grow together behind a veteran OL. 

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

As far as the QBs, from what I’ve heard and read about OTAs and mini camp, it’s clearly been Stidham 1, Nix 2 but close and Wilson a distant 3rd. 

If that holds through the opening of camp, Sean needs to give Nix a half and Stidham a half in the first preseason game. If Nix remains 2 but is gaining, and plays well in his half, name him the starter. If Stidham remainis and unquestioned 1, name him the starter. 

What I would HATE, even more than Stidham being named the starter, would be to drag this out until Labor Day. Sean cannot be so delusional as to think that he’s gaining some kind of competitive advantage over our early season opponents by dragging this out. 

Something they do need to consider, however, is the fan base reaction. You don’t want to create an air of negativity and pessimism around the team. The fan base will tolerate losing games and seeing a rookie QB go through rookie struggles, they won’t tolerate seeing the team lose with a mediocre veteran who everyone knows is not the long term answer. 

My beat reporter friend - again, someone you all know of and respect - said that if a QB camp battle drags on, the veterans will naturally rally around the more experienced QB, consciously or unconsciously, and that can cause problems in the locker room. Sean has to play the long game with big picture in mind. 

Mike made one big mistake in his final years here. He rightly recognized in 2006 that we weren’t winning a Super Bowl with Jake Plummer, so he traded up and drafted Jay Cutler - in the same draft also landed Dumervil, Marshall, Sheffler, and others - and undertook the first real rebuild of his tenure. The mistake came when he, midseason with the team I believe 7-3, benched Plummer for Cutler. That lost the locker room. He should have either a) started Cutler in week one and told the vets to live with it or, b) in hindsight what I would have done, rode out 2006 with Plummer and likely a wild card round loss, and then moved on from him after the season, naming Cutler the week 1 starter in 2007.

Now, the parallels aren’t all there - the 2006  team was a very veteran squad who had been to the AFCCG the season prior while the 2024 team is youth movement rebuild. But even if he’s just marginally better, Stidham cannot start. If he’s much better, I get it, and it raises concerns about Nix whose selling points were his experience, maturity, processing ability and overall “pro ready-ness,” but if it’s even kind of close, you have start Nix and let him and the young skill position players grow together behind a veteran OL. 

I would only offer one counterpoint. Possibly the most important though.

Since he's been here Sean has said repeatedly he'd play the people that give us the best chance to win. I think that, more than anything else will determine the starter, as it should.

[thebestever6]

Is Javonte really on the roster bubble?

[AnAngryAmerican]

23 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I would only offer one counterpoint. Possibly the most important though.

Since he's been here Sean has said repeatedly he'd play the people that give us the best chance to win. I think that, more than anything else will determine the starter, as it should.

Literally every coach, I mean literally every coach says that. Mike said that when he benched Plummer for Cutler. And the list goes on.

Sean knows what he’s doing - I’ve said all offseason long, this franchise has a plan, from the Walmarts to the towel boys, and it’s a full buy-in - whether that plans works or not is yet to be determined. But if you’re going rebuild mode, which we ARE regardless of what’s said into a microphone, then you start the kid. You have zero expectations. You have a veteran staff who will coach up the young kids in the skill positions, defensive back 7 and on STs.

Start and play the kids early. If we go 3-14 no one will care this year if it gets us to 10-7 next year.