HTTRDynasty Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 hours ago, HoboRocket said: No that's literally what he did in Arizona that killed the offense. Murray was fantastic; Kliff's playcalling was by far the biggest issue. Everything is so heavily scripted that WRs would give up on routes because they knew they wouldn't get the ball. Kyler hit AJ Green in the back of the head SEVERAL times. Kliff's screens were so predictable that they were a guaranteed loss of yards. This is how in early 2022 Cardinals fans and NFL commentators were talking about how amazing Kyler Murray while his numbers were crap. He'd make a completion for 17 yards, and then a completion for a loss of 3. Every. Freaking. Drive. And then Kliff's ego made him go psycho on the sideline when Kyler would audible out of his play calls. But Kliff's play calls are terrible for the flow of the offense. It's no-huddle after negative plays, it's up tempo on passing downs so there's no adjusting pass pro, it's taking boom or bust plays like WR screens on 1st and 2nd down so the QB has to convert 3rd and very long multiple times a drive. Kliff's offense was effective until opposing teams figured out the rhythm. The whole offense is about catching your opponent off guard by making them defend screens and hitting them with no huddle when they don't expect it. But once they know what to expect (which is really easy because the offense lacks variety) they can shut you down. Kliff killed Larry Fitz, AJ Green, and DeAndre Hopkins. That's terrifying if you're a Washington fan imo. It’ll be interesting to find out (to the extent possible) which narrative is more accurate: (1) the narrative above or (2) the narrative that Kyler’s lack of work ethic was primarily responsible for the lack of success in Arizona - especially now that we can contrast that offense with an offense led by a QB that has been lauded for his work ethic. It’s not like Kyler has lit the world on fire without Kliff tbh. I don't even think most would consider him a top half of the league QB right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 27 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: It’s not like Kyler has lit the world on fire without Kliff tbh. I don't even think most would consider him a top half of the league QB right now It’s going to be an interesting comparison for sure. Though Kyler has only been without Kliff for 8 games as he was recovering from his ACL last year. Marvin Harrison is a huge boost to whatever they been rolling out with for the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 44 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: It’ll be interesting to find out (to the extent possible) which narrative is more accurate: (1) the narrative above or (2) the narrative that Kyler’s lack of work ethic was primarily responsible for the lack of success in Arizona - especially now that we can contrast that offense with an offense led by a QB that has been lauded for his work ethic. It’s not like Kyler has lit the world on fire without Kliff tbh. I don't even think most would consider him a top half of the league QB right now. And to be fair, Kyler did have like 57 TDs in 23 games in KK's offense at one point, as well as being near the top of the league in a lot of efficiency numbers (YPA, completion %, yards per carry) through most of 2020 and 2021. But on the flip side, once one team figured out how to defend the offense, everyone did. It's like the bump McVay ran into after the 2018 season. The difference is McVay adjusted. Kliff didn't. One other interesting note I noticed from the Notable Stats thread is that Dan Quinn's former offensive assistants (Shanahan, McDaniel, LaFleur) were in the top 4 of the league in pre-snap motion last year and use a lot of play action. Kingsbury is very different in that he doesn't really use either motion or play action very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: So Kliff === Greg Roman?!?! I’ve never understood why Kliff was considered a great or innovative offensive mind. He got the job in 2019 for two reasons. He was the polar opposite of Steve Wilks (which is a classic owner move) and Patrick Mahomes had just won his first MVP and taken the league by storm. It’s all about momentum and timing. However Mahomes at Texas Tech and Johnny Manziel at A&M were considered Kliff’s success stories in college but were largely sandlot QB’s. It’s crazy in hindsight that Mahomes wasn’t the #1 pick given his talent yet it was JUSTIFIED in real time because he had poor mechanics and sucked breaking down film. That kinda makes you think he wasn’t best developed in college even though he’ll end up a top-3 QB all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said: It’ll be interesting to find out (to the extent possible) which narrative is more accurate: (1) the narrative above or (2) the narrative that Kyler’s lack of work ethic was primarily responsible for the lack of success in Arizona - especially now that we can contrast that offense with an offense led by a QB that has been lauded for his work ethic. It’s not like Kyler has lit the world on fire without Kliff tbh. I don't even think most would consider him a top half of the league QB right now. I think Daniels is slightly more NFL ready than Kyler was coming out which bodes well for Kliff. He’s also dealing with what seems like competent ownership and a non-drunken embarrassment of a GM so I think his luck could change for the better in DC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Reading the tea leaves, I defer to Pats fans if they have different info, but sure seems like they're setting up to have Drake Maye be the Week 1 starter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: It’s not like Kyler has lit the world on fire without Kliff tbh. I don't even think most would consider him a top half of the league QB right now. I mean, this lacks any and all context. Come on now. He's played half a season (8 games) without Kliff while coming back from an ACL tear on an offense that completely lacked any talent. Hollywood brown really only played 3 full games with him. Michael Wilson missed three games after Kyler came back as well. We should not really be taking anything from that stretch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Forge said: I mean, this lacks any and all context. Come on now. He's played half a season (8 games) without Kliff while coming back from an ACL tear on an offense that completely lacked any talent. Hollywood brown really only played 3 full games with him. Michael Wilson missed three games after Kyler came back as well. We should not really be taking anything from that stretch I hear you, but excuses can be made for nearly any QB based on their situation. It will soon become clear whether Kliff was the one holding Kyler back or vice versa (or maybe they’re both just average to below average). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: It’s not like Kyler has lit the world on fire without Kliff tbh. I don't even think most would consider him a top half of the league QB right now. he's played 8 games in his career w/o kliff, coming off tearing his acl and the Cardinals went from 28th in EPA on offense to 10th when kyler came back, with Greg Dortch as his #1 WR... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 11 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said: he's played 8 games in his career w/o kliff, coming off tearing his acl and the Cardinals went from 28th in EPA on offense to 10th when kyler came back, with Greg Dortch as his #1 WR... Dortch the Torch! Honestly, though, I went to the Cardinals @ Titans Pre-Season game in 2022, hoping to see some players distinguish themselves. Greg Dortch was far and away the best player that game and I knew he'd produce if ever given a chance, despite his stature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 52 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said: and the Cardinals went from 28th in EPA on offense to 10th when kyler came back, with Greg Dortch as his #1 WR... That just tells me he’s much better than the guy he replaced. Hopefully he can build on that this season. Meanwhile… Hope you guys aren’t dealing with Snyder-lite over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 17 hours ago, Broncofan said: Reading the tea leaves, I defer to Pats fans if they have different info, but sure seems like they're setting up to have Drake Maye be the Week 1 starter.... He’s improved quickly, but I’d still say Jake Briskett is the starter week 1. Apparently he’s going to decide Monday or Tuesday after crunching the tape from this Sunday. So we’ll see both QBs this weekend. I guess if Maye looks good, it moves the needle his way. He wasn’t in this running two weeks ago, he’s turned it on in practice to really put his hat in the ring for selection. I still don’t want to see him start though. That OL is a death sentence. We are a joke. Edited August 22 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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