JIllg Posted Monday at 01:49 PM Share Posted Monday at 01:49 PM (edited) I think that every really good team goes a bit stale at times. Definitely felt like that today. It doesn't help that we've had to narrow down the playbook for Mason. Or that more than half the league runs variants of our offense now - with better personnel often, given how poorly Deebo and Aiyuk are playing. But that's all kind of a nitpicky problem that may solve itself with better play from Aiyuk as he gets up to speed. We struggled a bit in the red zone and on critical downs, but overall moved the ball well enough to win. On defense, things are worse. They've had great continuity over the offseason. They gave up a ghastly 8 yards a play and Warner barely saved them from a disgraceful thumping. I have serious concerns about our gameplanning and pass rushers other than Bosa. From the start of the week, I felt as though the play was blitzing and putting Darnold under pressure and testing his pass protection calls, where he has proven to be quite bad for his entire career. And our gameplan on defense felt like our default plan against any player. Mostly 4 man rushes and dropping into zone with some cover 1 man with Warner as the hole defender. And Bosa got his sacks (albeit on many fewer pressures than we are accustomed to), but the interior guys didn't win often against a porous Vikings interior. Edited Monday at 01:49 PM by JIllg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamq Posted Monday at 01:51 PM Share Posted Monday at 01:51 PM Man that super bowl broke me, I felt nothing about this loss. It was a very sloppy game by the offense and would have been much worse if not for Fred Fully expect them to get back on track and win the division, just going to be a rough ride without CMC. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted Monday at 02:10 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 02:10 PM 54 minutes ago, JIllg said: Yikes. A lot of these are just the route concepts and how there is no chance for the receiver to get open. This is where JTO always gets after Kyle's passing concepts and how some of them make no sense. Damn near if Kyle is not getting you with the PA or slants/post routes, it is going to be a long day. The shot plays are effectively gone with how defenses defend this offense. Will Kyle adjust? How will Kyle adjust? Two big questions going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted Monday at 02:15 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 02:15 PM 22 minutes ago, JIllg said: I think that every really good team goes a bit stale at times. Definitely felt like that today. It doesn't help that we've had to narrow down the playbook for Mason. Or that more than half the league runs variants of our offense now - with better personnel often, given how poorly Deebo and Aiyuk are playing. But that's all kind of a nitpicky problem that may solve itself with better play from Aiyuk as he gets up to speed. We struggled a bit in the red zone and on critical downs, but overall moved the ball well enough to win. On defense, things are worse. They've had great continuity over the offseason. They gave up a ghastly 8 yards a play and Warner barely saved them from a disgraceful thumping. I have serious concerns about our gameplanning and pass rushers other than Bosa. From the start of the week, I felt as though the play was blitzing and putting Darnold under pressure and testing his pass protection calls, where he has proven to be quite bad for his entire career. And our gameplan on defense felt like our default plan against any player. Mostly 4 man rushes and dropping into zone with some cover 1 man with Warner as the hole defender. And Bosa got his sacks (albeit on many fewer pressures than we are accustomed to), but the interior guys didn't win often against a porous Vikings interior. I am going to have to fight back against the Deebo hate. It is unnecessary and he played a good game yesterday. Deebo came up with four big boy catches and was battling hard in the run game. Aiyuk started to win late but he really had no shot with how the Vikings were defending him. Press coverage with a safety sitting right on top of him. Flores made this exact adjustment in the game last year after Aiyuk was cooking against single coverage in the first half. The issue right now is we are lacking some speed, even from our top guys. Jennings is playing great but he's not a threat past 10-15 yards so even when he catches it, they are tough. Likewise with Deebo. Kittle is the one guy who can separate at the moment but I need to watch the coaches film, but I believe the Vikings started shifting more attention to him later in the game to take him away. Cowing has to be integrated in the passing game somehow but I don't see Kyle doing that. One adjustment that can be made is you can have Deebo as the outlet that CMC was, but then you take him out in running actual routes and that does not help matters....unless you insert Cowing. Then you have something. Mason is never going to be a big threat in the passing game and that hurts this offense. He's probably just as good, if not a better pure runner than CMC but he brings 2% of what CMC does in the passing game. Rough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 Posted Monday at 02:19 PM Share Posted Monday at 02:19 PM (edited) 10 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: A lot of these are just the route concepts and how there is no chance for the receiver to get open. This is where JTO always gets after Kyle's passing concepts and how some of them make no sense. Damn near if Kyle is not getting you with the PA or slants/post routes, it is going to be a long day. The shot plays are effectively gone with how defenses defend this offense. Will Kyle adjust? How will Kyle adjust? Two big questions going forward. JTO puts out too many videos to put out good ones. He doesn't really think about defensive zone switches the same way the offense does, and he doesn't really understand defense much. He just complains because it was different than what he was taught. Everyone says Kyle is the best in the league at calling plays, I agree, yet JTO only says negative things about his play calling. Most of the time he says " I don't like this" why motion CMC out of the backfield. The reason is it creates a conflict in palms coverage about who the two is, and sets the back up for better routes. If no play action, then there is no reason to have the back in the backfield. I think JTO doesn't like things that are different or creative. Putting out film on 27 different QB's every week waters down the quality. We all know the type of person that instead of getting to know about something new, they just outright reject it for being different. When teams play man/blitz, we lean on Aiyuk down the field, and CMC running hot routes. Nobody in the league is as good at CMC at hot routes, but J Mason should get the chance rather than just getting rid of all the hot routes. I have to watch the 22 on this one though. Edited Monday at 02:24 PM by Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted Monday at 02:33 PM Share Posted Monday at 02:33 PM 8 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I am going to have to fight back against the Deebo hate. It is unnecessary and he played a good game yesterday. Deebo came up with four big boy catches and was battling hard in the run game. Aiyuk started to win late but he really had no shot with how the Vikings were defending him. Press coverage with a safety sitting right on top of him. Flores made this exact adjustment in the game last year after Aiyuk was cooking against single coverage in the first half. The issue right now is we are lacking some speed, even from our top guys. Jennings is playing great but he's not a threat past 10-15 yards so even when he catches it, they are tough. Likewise with Deebo. Kittle is the one guy who can separate at the moment but I need to watch the coaches film, but I believe the Vikings started shifting more attention to him later in the game to take him away. Cowing has to be integrated in the passing game somehow but I don't see Kyle doing that. One adjustment that can be made is you can have Deebo as the outlet that CMC was, but then you take him out in running actual routes and that does not help matters....unless you insert Cowing. Then you have something. Mason is never going to be a big threat in the passing game and that hurts this offense. He's probably just as good, if not a better pure runner than CMC but he brings 2% of what CMC does in the passing game. Rough. Hey, the Deebo thing is fair. He made a couple of really important and difficult catches. I should clarify - I feel as though he is a tremendous player but the necessity to scheme up literally every touch he gets these days puts a major limitation on the offense. I don't think we'll ever get the 2021 version back that can win when given favorable defensive back match ups. He struggles more than you'd like to separate from safeties and linebackers. Even slimmed down. And if he breaks that first tackle in a man for man situation he's gone, he just doesn't win often enough any more. And so when your 5 man skill position group is Juice (never really separates from matching personnel when not forgotten about), Deebo (ditto), Mason (not really a receiving threat right now), Kittle, and not really there Aiyuk, you've just not got enough guys that require additional attention. Jennings doesn't really change that math, either. I'm with you on Cowing. For one, it would allow you to save Aiyuk's legs when you just need to clear out the top of the defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted Monday at 03:00 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 03:00 PM 13 minutes ago, JIllg said: Hey, the Deebo thing is fair. He made a couple of really important and difficult catches. I should clarify - I feel as though he is a tremendous player but the necessity to scheme up literally every touch he gets these days puts a major limitation on the offense. I don't think we'll ever get the 2021 version back that can win when given favorable defensive back match ups. He struggles more than you'd like to separate from safeties and linebackers. Even slimmed down. And if he breaks that first tackle in a man for man situation he's gone, he just doesn't win often enough any more. And so when your 5 man skill position group is Juice (never really separates from matching personnel when not forgotten about), Deebo (ditto), Mason (not really a receiving threat right now), Kittle, and not really there Aiyuk, you've just not got enough guys that require additional attention. Jennings doesn't really change that math, either. I'm with you on Cowing. For one, it would allow you to save Aiyuk's legs when you just need to clear out the top of the defense. I mean what kind of routes was Deebo winning in 2021? Is it really that much of difference compared to now? The good defenses will try to get physical with our receivers and play tight coverage. Many will play zones. It is not like Deebo was routing up corners in 2021 and creating a bunch of separation in man coverage. It really just comes down to Purdy now having to be more conservative and take the check down and not wait for the deeper route to develop. I can't believe I am actually saying that after years of watching the conservative Jimmy G offense, but that's what needs to happen until defenses start playing us different. Aiyuk will break out next week and have a big game, not worried about him. He got to play a lot more this game and is working himself back in shape. Once he gets his timing down and starts to beat press coverage, he will get his fair share of catches despite how teams defend him. Since Mason is not trusted yet by Purdy in the passing game, either we use Deebo as an outlet or Juice has to be involved more. We also need to focus on Kittle more and try to get him some mismatches. We will be fine, this team will still win 12-13 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFL Network Posted Monday at 03:32 PM Share Posted Monday at 03:32 PM 9 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: It's been two games. Sit this one out slick. Two games and the same old Niner problems persist over & over again e.g. poor pass protection, can't rush the passer on 3rd down & can't cover on 3rd down sound familiar? Oh yea it happened in the SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted Monday at 03:48 PM Share Posted Monday at 03:48 PM 15 minutes ago, NFL Network said: Two games and the same old Niner problems persist over & over again e.g. poor pass protection, can't rush the passer on 3rd down & can't cover on 3rd down sound familiar? Oh yea it happened in the SB. I can't imagine just wanting to be this miserable all the time lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFL Network Posted Monday at 04:20 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:20 PM 26 minutes ago, Forge said: I can't imagine just wanting to be this miserable all the time lol Well I don't really want to be this miserable but the fact that nothing changes with this team makes me really frustrated but it's not like I was expecting a SB win this year b/c that window is long gone. So many more difficult games left on the schedule and not sure how the hold up against QB's like Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Jordan Love (if healthy), Dak. I'm not going to even mention the elite WR's that the defense has to attempt to cover in the back end b/c that's a pure nightmare lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted Monday at 04:58 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:58 PM 1 hour ago, Forge said: I can't imagine just wanting to be this miserable all the time lol Has he ever had anything positive to say? I feel like he only shows up after losses. Well, to each their own, I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted Monday at 05:24 PM Share Posted Monday at 05:24 PM This is a sizeable regression from last year where we were very balanced. Only two games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ataal Posted Monday at 05:26 PM Share Posted Monday at 05:26 PM 3 hours ago, adamq said: Man that super bowl broke me, I felt nothing about this loss. It was a very sloppy game by the offense and would have been much worse if not for Fred Fully expect them to get back on track and win the division, just going to be a rough ride without CMC. Dude, samesies. I'll probably start feeling it if we're in good position for the playoffs, but right now, yeah. The Super Bowl took the wind out of my sails, big time. This game was really hard to watch. That Flores defense just causes so much chaos to our offense. Timing is off. Multiple reads to complete passes every play. Can't get into a rhythm. On paper, Brock had a great game. Over 300 yards. What, like 77% completion? Not bad at all. If that's all you were looking at, you'd think we won this game handedly. But, watching the game, you didn't get that feeling at all. It was really obvious that the defense was frustrating him and he kept wanting to save the day with a big play. He's like that most games, I guess, but the defense just wasn't giving him those opportunities. He needs to adjust when that happens and take the shorter gains. We have a lot of guys who can make stuff happen. On to the next game. The Rams are pretty beat up and we seem to do well against them. Not an easy game, but if we can get a rhythm going, we should be able to win by 10+. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustrianNiner Posted Monday at 05:36 PM Share Posted Monday at 05:36 PM 13 hours ago, Forge said: I'm not sure what he's using to establish this, but if accurate, yikes. Adding to that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted Monday at 05:55 PM Share Posted Monday at 05:55 PM 18 minutes ago, AustrianNiner said: Adding to that His pressure to sack rate is 30% after yesterday lol. That's worse than Justin Fields level 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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