Love the top two QBs in the draft but...

[AKRNA]

15 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I'd definitely prefer Baker for several reasons, chief among them touch and accuracy being well ahead of Lamar. I also think Baker can start in an NFL offense from Day 1, while Lamar probably needs RGIII-like training wheels if he wants to play early. 

At this point my QB rankings would be:

1. Rosen
2. Mayfield
3. Darnold
4. Jackson

The first two I see as Day 1 plug and play guys, while the other two need serious work but have a lot of dynamic qualities you can build around. 

That's a pretty fair ranking. Jackson makes me nervous though. He can't run like that in the NFL and that's a large part of his game.

I've been waiting for a successful "dual threat" QB for fifty years and still haven't seen one. The NFL weeds them out pretty quick.

[Scoundrel]

If this was Manziel instead of Baker I would just say he is probably suffering from a herpes outbreak right now.

Baker is going to come out like MJ with the flu. Hopefully he shows his skill but loses to my Dawgs!

[The Helicopter]

If the top 2 QB’S go 1-2 I say draft the best talent available (rb), retain VJ, and we should be in prime position to select our QBOTF next year

[broncos67]

Do you guys think Mayfield is accurate because he's actually accurate, or is he accurate because his offense is predicated on some short throws and he plays in a garbage defensive conference? I'm not saying Mayfield is god awful, but I also think a lot of these "college gamer" types fail because their skillsets are predicated for college and not the professional game. I do, however, LOVE, Mayfield's fire and swagger. That's the kind of thing we need a LOT more of on this offense. Rosen can probably give you some of that too. Darnold seemed a little mopey last night which was peculiar, but it's one game so who knows.

[Scoundrel]

3 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Do you guys think Mayfield is accurate because he's actually accurate, or is he accurate because his offense is predicated on some short throws and he plays in a garbage defensive conference? I'm not saying Mayfield is god awful, but I also think a lot of these "college gamer" types fail because their skillsets are predicated for college and not the professional game. I do, however, LOVE, Mayfield's fire and swagger. That's the kind of thing we need a LOT more of on this offense. Rosen can probably give you some of that too. Darnold seemed a little mopey last night which was peculiar, but it's one game so who knows.

I think he is legitimately accurate. Even on his deeper routes he places the ball with touch and where it needs to be. 

[BroncoBruin]

3 minutes ago, Counselor said:

I think he is legitimately accurate. Even on his deeper routes he places the ball with touch and where it needs to be. 

His deep ball is the best in this class IMO. And outside the pocket, his accuracy is special. 

[BroncoBruin]

Darnold is a stereotypical California beach kid. Cool customer, doesn't get rattled but definitely on the quieter side.

[thebestever6]

I think I take issue with people on this forums mindset. Everyone says go the veteran route we can't afford another high pick qb disaster but it's also true for a lot of teams that landed a franchise qb the last decade.

We need to start evaluating the draft on a pure talent level basis, and not look at the likelihood of failure. Look at Houston they traded Brock and a second to get rid of that huge contract, and still gave up a future 1 to get Watson. Carolina drafted Jimmy Clausen and still didn't waiver on drafting Newton. Philly trades Foles and a 2nd for Bradford and still trade up to get Wentz.

There's a common theme here sometimes you have to put the Chips to the center of the table and go all in on a guy despite the risks and the question is is that qb or qbs in this draft?

[broncos67]

34 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I think I take issue with people on this forums mindset. Everyone says go the veteran route we can't afford another high pick qb disaster but it's also true for a lot of teams that landed a franchise qb the last decade.

We need to start evaluating the draft on a pure talent level basis, and not look at the likelihood of failure. Look at Houston they traded Brock and a second to get rid of that huge contract, and still gave up a future 1 to get Watson. Carolina drafted Jimmy Clausen and still didn't waiver on drafting Newton. Philly trades Foles and a 2nd for Bradford and still trade up to get Wentz.

There's a common theme here sometimes you have to put the Chips to the center of the table and go all in on a guy despite the risks and the question is is that qb or qbs in this draft?

If you're going to put your chips in the center of the table, so to speak, you need to still do your due diligence on prospects. I do agree that finding a franchise QB is generally worth the cost, especially if it works out. That said, the reason a veteran doesn't usually work out is because they don't hit the market much. Guys like Kevin Kolb, Bradford, etc... over the years are not good, but get overpaid due to position. Landing Cousins would be excellent. Landing Taylor would be financially savvy and would be the smart move from a roster building standpoint. Trading up is what gives you an eye to the future. The problem is that we'll have to trade to 1 if we want a QB most likely, because the Giants aren't going to sacrifice their draft position for nothing.

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

His deep ball is the best in this class IMO. And outside the pocket, his accuracy is special. 

And having a QB that can do that can help the pass blocking tremendously 

[paul-mac]

10 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

If you're going to put your chips in the center of the table, so to speak, you need to still do your due diligence on prospects. I do agree that finding a franchise QB is generally worth the cost, especially if it works out. That said, the reason a veteran doesn't usually work out is because they don't hit the market much. Guys like Kevin Kolb, Bradford, etc... over the years are not good, but get overpaid due to position. Landing Cousins would be excellent. Landing Taylor would be financially savvy and would be the smart move from a roster building standpoint. Trading up is what gives you an eye to the future. The problem is that we'll have to trade to 1 if we want a QB most likely, because the Giants aren't going to sacrifice their draft position for nothing.

 

Taylor, Alex Smith etc are this year's versions of Mike Glennon and Sam Bradford, albeit both of them are better players than those guys. What I mean by that is that if we get one of those guys, it shouldn't prevent us from drafting someone as well, as the Bears and Eagles have done in the last two season. 

[germ-x]

3 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Do you guys think Mayfield is accurate because he's actually accurate, or is he accurate because his offense is predicated on some short throws and he plays in a garbage defensive conference? I'm not saying Mayfield is god awful, but I also think a lot of these "college gamer" types fail because their skillsets are predicated for college and not the professional game. I do, however, LOVE, Mayfield's fire and swagger. That's the kind of thing we need a LOT more of on this offense. Rosen can probably give you some of that too. Darnold seemed a little mopey last night which was peculiar, but it's one game so who knows.

Excellent point on Mayfield and my biggest concern with him.  He throws to wide open WRs all game long.  I’ve watched 2 complete games of his, Ohio State and Oklahoma State, he made a handful or less of NFL caliber throws in both games combined.

No it’s not Mayfields fault that he operates in that type of offense and the system works that well, but it doesn’t mean it’s not concerning.  NFL WRs aren’t open and there is a difference in throwing a deep ball, slant route, whatever route you want with a defender step for step with the WR than it is with the nearest defender 5 yards away and in some instances in both games 10-15+ yards away.  

And honestly over the years it’s seemed when the gamer/leadership stuff becomes the primary or one of the leading reasons to draft a player it’s usually a cause for concern.

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, germ-x said:

Excellent point on Mayfield and my biggest concern with him.  He throws to wide open WRs all game long.  I’ve watched 2 complete games of his, Ohio State and Oklahoma State, he made a handful or less of NFL caliber throws in both games combined.

No it’s not Mayfields fault that he operates in that type of offense and the system works that well, but it doesn’t mean it’s not concerning.  NFL WRs aren’t open and there is a difference in throwing a deep ball, slant route, whatever route you want with a defender step for step with the WR than it is with the nearest defender 5 yards away and in some instances in both games 10-15+ yards away.  

And honestly over the years it’s seemed when the gamer/leadership stuff becomes the primary or one of the leading reasons to draft a player it’s usually a cause for concern.

I just don't see that as the case. Both of those are great attributes and Mayfield has them. They're not however his primary attributes.

[germ-x]

8 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I just don't see that as the case. Both of those are great attributes and Mayfield has them. They're not however his primary attributes.

Not saying he doesn’t, but in literally every post about Mayfield his fiery competitiveness, that he’s a “gamer” and leadership are mentioned.  That leads me to believe it’s a major quality people are looking at.  Those qualities and his accuracy are literally the biggest +s people point to.  As 67 mentioned and I touched on as well, his accuracy may not be as legitimate as the #s or even tape point to as that system almost constantly pumps out accurate QBs because of the short throws and ability to get players open.

His game really is almost identical to Chase Daniels.

[thebestever6]

11 hours ago, germ-x said:

Not saying he doesn’t, but in literally every post about Mayfield his fiery competitiveness, that he’s a “gamer” and leadership are mentioned.  That leads me to believe it’s a major quality people are looking at.  Those qualities and his accuracy are literally the biggest +s people point to.  As 67 mentioned and I touched on as well, his accuracy may not be as legitimate as the #s or even tape point to as that system almost constantly pumps out accurate QBs because of the short throws and ability to get players open.

His game really is almost identical to Chase Daniels.

Well the guy is going to the senior bowl so he's not running away from questions or concerns.

Baker is going to go through a gauntlet of evaluation before the draft. So by the time the draft comes I'll  be firm or weakened in my beliefs on him.