Shanedorf Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Striker said: A key difference is how the rest of the season went Crosby had a similar run after his Detroit debacle. Packers stuck with him and he delivered. I'd be fine sourcing a replacement, but replacing Crosby is Bisaccia's call and he didn't waste any time in replacing BoJo so we should know soon if Mason's a part of the 2022 plan or not. If they were going to move on, the cap constraints suggest it would have already happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Crosby had a similar run after his Detroit debacle. Packers stuck with him and he delivered. I'd be fine sourcing a replacement, but replacing Crosby is Bisaccia's call and he didn't waste any time in replacing BoJo so we should know soon if Mason's a part of the 2022 plan or not. If they were going to move on, the cap constraints suggest it would have already happened. I'm guessing you missed it, but Gutes came out and said Crosby would be part of the 90 man roster in training camp. He would have to earn his spot, but he would be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Still in the boat of a kicker is a kicker and if you got one you keep them. I can’t think of a single clutch last minute field goal Crosby has missed in his career. I’m sure he’s had at least one, but I can’t think of one, so it must not have been in a huge game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, craig said: Alex, I kinda selectively pulled the late-season games. Seemed like the "red" not-touchback kicks exceeded the green, and sometimes by more significant amounts. Perhaps after Halloween, the coaches should have just kicked for touchbacks? Alex and RT or anybody, can you expand on the risk-reward analysis? Your premise is that ST coach is instructing the kicker to "not-touchback". The statistics show that doing "not-touchback" costs you about 4 yards per game, 65 total. And perhaps the cost is a little worse in late-season cold. So, Q's: If it costs you ~4 ypg, why instruct for that? Where's the advantage? If it does no good and low-cost hard, don't you still need to expend practice time working on covering those? Isn't that a waste of time if you could just touchback-it at will? Where's the advantage? A factor is that there are a couple of long returns, which skew the average. Part of me thinks many coaches would prefer to avoid the big play, so would rather play it conservative. But, that apparently wasn't the instruction? Is the perception that minus a couple of big plays, that there *IS* some advantage? Do league-wide stats suggest that there is advantage, and the Packers are exceptional in being disadvantaged when they do non-touchback kicks? In my mind, +/- 7 yards isn't a big deal. Is it a significant value to get an occasional not-touchback that results in the opponent starting inside the 20? Enough reward so that you're willing to allow for a couple of start-at-the-32 in order to get a chance for one start-at-the-18? Alex, your logic on the capacity to kick it into the end zone based on field-goal capacity is very convincing. Does that carry over into cold-weather kicking? I don't remember how many 50-yard field goals Crosby got in the cold versus warm, or with the wind versus against it. 1. League wide, the net outcome of non touchbacks is superior. It's primarily driven by the difference between lost fumbles and touchdowns. The Packers had 2 or 3 (I'm too lazy to go back and look) forced fumbles that they didn't recover. Had they recovered one of those fumbles, the non touchback option would have been better. As a coach, you don't go into the season expecting to be the worst, you expect close to the league average. Should Drayton have assumed that his units were so bad that they would be better off using the traditionally inferior strategy? I personally believe the units didn't perform so poorly that he should have done so. 2. It's very similar to answer #1. Statistically there is an advantage to non touchback kickoffs. Is there enough of an advantage created to justify the opportunity cost of roster construction and practice time. While I dislike the appeal to authority argument, I think there's a reason that no teams are touchbacking every time. 3. Again, see #1. At a league average, Turnovers will outpace long returns. If you remove the best and worst KO return for Crosby, you end up with an essentially net neutral decision. Our fanbase is a negative one. We as a fanbase never recovered from the first Bears game. 4. Yes 5. Not about yards, it's about Turnovers. 6. Yes. People need to remember that when the KO line was moved up, Kickers were kicking the ball through the uprights for the lulz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Still in the boat of a kicker is a kicker and if you got one you keep them. I can’t think of a single clutch last minute field goal Crosby has missed in his career. I’m sure he’s had at least one, but I can’t think of one, so it must not have been in a huge game. I think the last one was the miss in regulation vs. the Vikings in 2018. Before that he missed vs. the Lions in 2015. Made two game winners vs. the Lions in '19, hit a tying field goal vs. the Colts in '20, and of course there was last year's adventures in kicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: I would claim Crosby is a league average kicker, which when factoring in GB conditions makes him above average. He does not suck. He's far from a statistically average kicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Still in the boat of a kicker is a kicker and if you got one you keep them. I can’t think of a single clutch last minute field goal Crosby has missed in his career. I’m sure he’s had at least one, but I can’t think of one, so it must not have been in a huge game. The Bengals this year? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Still in the boat of a kicker is a kicker and if you got one you keep them. I can’t think of a single clutch last minute field goal Crosby has missed in his career. I’m sure he’s had at least one, but I can’t think of one, so it must not have been in a huge game. Bengals game and Lions games he fell apart he missed some big kicks but I agree with you. I think he'll bounce back next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: League wide, the net outcome of non touchbacks is superior. It's primarily driven by the difference between lost fumbles and touchdowns. I'd guess the ever-present " illegal block in the back" penalties play a role in net outcome as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Still in the boat of a kicker is a kicker and if you got one you keep them. I can’t think of a single clutch last minute field goal Crosby has missed in his career. I’m sure he’s had at least one, but I can’t think of one, so it must not have been in a huge game. The five he missed in CIN this year before he made the sixth ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap - Certainly on their short list for the Packers to figure out soon is the Marcedes Lewis contract. Lewis has a $2 million roster bonus due this week the Packers probably don’t want to fully hit the cap. Whatever their decision is (Keep, Cut, Restructure, Trade) it’s coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Leader said: Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap - Certainly on their short list for the Packers to figure out soon is the Marcedes Lewis contract. Lewis has a $2 million roster bonus due this week the Packers probably don’t want to fully hit the cap. Whatever their decision is (Keep, Cut, Restructure, Trade) it’s coming soon. That damn know it all. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, R T said: That damn know it all. 🤣 Seriously. I really take umbrage with him saying "it’s coming soon" - pompous bastard - how dare he! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Ruvell Martin is no longer listed on Packers.com. No announcement either despite confirming 2 promotions and 3 new hires today. Just vanished without fanfare. It really does look like we're rolling with three ST assistants for Bisaccia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) Regardless of what anyone thinks or the statistics say, the Packers decided that the biggest issue with Crosby was how the ball was placed in front of his foot last year. If they thought he was the problem he would have been cut and Bojo would have been kept. They gave up a draft pick for a punter. They didn't do that without thinking he'd be around long term. Figured they could coach him up as a holder. He proved to be awful at it. For a team that wants to win now, they figure Crosby is still the guy who hit 92% and 100% of his FGs in 2019 and 2020. Basically they're blaming his 73.5% on FGs last year on Bojo not being able to catch and spin the snap. Edited March 17, 2022 by Mr Anonymous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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