Random Packer News & Notes

[GBPFan]

It's all subjective. It can also involve who you know. I have heard that some former player has been becoming acquainted with the voters to get that edge (I forget who it was).

[Old Guy]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

It's cringe worthy to feel like PFF has anything to do with HOF votes.

Please show me where I did this? 

I used them to make my point that Bakh was the best offensive lineman for a 6–7-year stretch. Which is true, even if you think you could fine 2-3 YOU like more. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Old Guy

[vegas492]

30 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Please show me where I did this? 

I used them to make my point that Bakh was the best offensive lineman for a 6–7-year stretch. Which is true, even if you think you could fine 2-3 YOU like more. 

Is Bakh this good?  Because he's the recent one in the HOF and their careers overlapped.  Whitworth is on the list ahead of Bakh.  As is Trent Williams.  

Should you care to look at lists for best OT's in the 2010-2019, those two are ahead of Bakh.  And that surprised me, the only thing that Whitworth has on him is a ring.

 

[vegas492]

32 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Please show me where I did this? 

I used them to make my point that Bakh was the best offensive lineman for a 6–7-year stretch. Which is true, even if you think you could fine 2-3 YOU like more. 

You gave zero evidence beside your own bias as to why Bakh is HOF worthy.  You cited nothing, yet added onto the post about PFF as a used metric.

I, on the other hand, have referenced who is in the HOF as a tackle, and the accolades that they have won and put Bakh's resume up against them.  Not many OT's have gotten in recently.

I've cited numerous outlets that have ranked the all decade team, and Bakh is not on there.  Though, those are just outlets, nothing "official".

Bakh is no Joe Thomas.  Let's be real here.  He's no Orlando Pace.

But I saw where that Jimbo Colbert guy was in there, and maybe he was a little ahead of my time, so I'm not sure how Bakh compares to him.

Bakh's resume isn't quite as impressive as others in the Hall, right now.  And that can change.  Boselli didn't have the best resume because of a short career, and he still got in.

So again, I'm back to this.  Bakh has a chance.  But he isn't there yet.  Also?  He's not that far away.

[vegas492]

6 hours ago, Old Guy said:

A nine-point difference is not a small number in rating of pass blocking tackles. It's a Grand Canyon type of disparity. You can knock PFF, but if they came up with that wide a margin of difference, it's meaningful. Nobody has ever accused them of being Packer loyalists. 

Just the @Old Guy post standing by PFF as a quality metric.

You asked, I delivered.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, GBPFan said:

It's all subjective. It can also involve who you know. I have heard that some former player has been becoming acquainted with the voters to get that edge (I forget who it was).

That Broncos RB.  Terrell Davis.  He was the best RB in a great scheme and won 2 titles, though.  

Averaged over 1,000 yards per season, despite having really a 4 year career and then a devastating knee injury.

His final three years led to 1,194 yards.  That's how good his first 4 years were.

And a 2,000 rushing yard season.

[craig]

Tangent from HOF-discussion is the question of Bakhti's future with the Packers.

• Routine consensus assumption is that he's gone after the season.  
• Current deal has $19 dead cap, plus $21 more for the year if they kept him under existing contract.

I wonder if Gute will necessarily cut him and eat the $19.  We all understand offering extended 4th contracts to guys who are 32 isn't the Packers way and isn't normally ideal.  

But what if hypothetically Bakhti stays relatively healthy this season, plays at a competitive level, and doesn't want to retire? 

• Bahkti and agent know he's not coming back under existing deal.  Either sign some extension with us, or sign new deal someplace else. 
• Whoever signs him, the same issues of age, injury, and potential decline apply.  No more/less problematic for us than for anybody else.  
• Not sure other bidders will be in better space cap-wise than us.  [We'll be in better position than most contending teams.]
• *IF* Love does badly and Packers lose ≥10 games, obviously no sense for Bakhti to want to come back.  Close the door, eat the $19M in dead cap, and let the rebuild continue.  
• But what *if* hypothetically Love turns out to be good, and Packers are a 10-win division winner?   
• Might not the Packers be the best contender with space to absorb Bakhti? 
• Is it possible that *IF* Bakhti stays reasonably healthy, that Gute might see a young roster as having rising Super Bowl possibilities?  And with cash to spare, might Gute envision Bakhti as better than Tenata, Telford, Walker, or Jones?  Maybe better than the 2nd-best of Tom/Nijman?   

I'd prefer to envision a scenario where Tom and Nijman both look like HOF tackles, and Jones and Walker too.  But there could be a scenario where even at age 32, that Bakhti might still be the best tackle we've got.  

 

[Old Guy]

7 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Just the @Old Guy post standing by PFF as a quality metric.

You asked, I delivered.

No, you didn't. Yes, Joe Thomas is going in the HOF. He's been out of the league for 5 years, so him getting in has nothing to do with Bakh. I don't see how Whitworth gets in other than longevity, not ability. He was never at Bakh's level. 

Trent Williams is no better than Bakh. He plays in bigger markets and gets more attention. Same dilemma LeRoy Butler suffered from and the reason he had to wait so long to get in. 

Bakh has been the best pass blocking LT for about 6 years, prior to his injury. You have no metric to disprove that. I supplied one that proves it and you attack the source. It certainly won't be the only measuring stick, but you better believe some of these writers who vote are going to look at those metrics when judging offensive linemen. Winning a Super Bowl this year with Jordan Love won't hurt his chances. 

Bakh needs two more elite years and he's in. One more and he's on the bubble. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Old Guy

[Pugger]

Before his injury Bak was a 2x first team All-Pro left tackle.  Guys like him don't grow on trees.  He may never return to that lofty level of play but IMO he is the best OL on this roster.  We want a guy like him protecting Love's backside.  Let's enjoy him while we got him.  If he returns to anywhere near what he once was he won't be around in 2024.

[Brat&Beer]

Packers still have some work to do on preventing pressure on punts. Don't know how much is the snapper, and how much is blocking. 

[Zycho32]

5 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

Packers still have some work to do on preventing pressure on punts. Don't know how much is the snapper, and how much is blocking. 

Is it possible to check on how the Raiders ranked in the preceeding seasons? Because Option C might be Rich sacrificing protection to emphasize getting downfield pressure on the returner.

[Old Guy]

Same cover next year only with: Love, Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks, Musgrave and Kraft.

Too bad the Packers never gave Rodgers any weapons to throw to though. 

[AlexGreen#20]

On the Bakhtiari discussion, you guys gotta remember that much of the Offensive Lineman discussion isn't really about accolades, it's about reputation more than it is anything else. Overreliance on PFF is changing that a little, but it's still mostly about guys swapping manly stories about how dominant a guy was. 

Bakhtiari's reputation as an elite pass blocker and a middling run blocker is going to hurt him in this regard. As is his pass blocking playstyle. The "Let the defender into your chest and then try and anchor in less than 2.5 steps before you get pushed back into the QB" style of pass blocking doesn't resonate with guys you're playing against. It makes them feel like they're doing really well and getting close, even if that's exactly what Bakhtiari wants. 

You can say that a guy like Trent Williams wasn't as good of a player as Bakhtiari on a spreadsheet and on a play-by-play basis you might have a point, but Trent Williams was a mauler in the run game. He looks the part more, and his more aggressive pass blocking style sticks out to people more. He is more demoralizing to play against, which is what a ton of the players who have some input on this kind of stuff will remember. 

Bakhtiari's hope against Trent Williams is the continued advancing pervasiveness of PFF into the discussion. 

Whitworth is a decent comparison to Bakhtiari, and I think it's a cleaner comparison, but the issue Bakhtiari will have with Whitworth is that Whitworth is so remarkably well liked by everybody around the league that he'll get the friends and family bump. Bakhtiari isn't going to get that. 

Whitworth is another PFF darling though. 

[squire12]

Bahktiari needs to be good/ great without Rodgers.  He could get dinged for having Rodgers as his QB.  Narrative being.... blocking for an all time great, elusive and top tier scramble drill/ 2nd reaction QB that made  Bahktiari job "easier".

[Brat&Beer]

4 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

Is it possible to check on how the Raiders ranked in the preceeding seasons? Because Option C might be Rich sacrificing protection to emphasize getting downfield pressure on the returner.

The guy who has punted for the Raiders since 2019 has never had a punt blocked. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ColeAJ01.htm