Leader Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Lodestar said: Lol I'm not going down that path I like Runyan and am not even calling him below average. I'm just saying that with the dearth of OL talent around the league, plus Rhyan already competing for snaps on a rookie deal, it stands to reason that a league-average starting guard like Runyan would have a bigger market outside of Green Bay. I dont know if he'd make more outside GB...but I do agree with your "state of OLs" comment and that there would be a market. Edited January 22 by Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 11 minutes ago, Lodestar said: Lol I'm not going down that path I like Runyan and am not even calling him below average. I'm just saying that with the dearth of OL talent around the league, plus Rhyan already competing for snaps on a rookie deal, it stands to reason that a league-average starting guard like Runyan would have a bigger market outside of Green Bay. With anything, there's a trade-off. Is it better value to keep Runyan AND Rhyan since there's a dearth of talent? Otherwise we'll need to invest a pick on IOL to replace him (instead of using that at another position). I don't buy for a second that he's less valuable to GB than other places. Rhyan is not good enough for him to factor in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 10 minutes ago, Lodestar said: Lol I'm not going down that path I like Runyan and am not even calling him below average. I'm just saying that with the dearth of OL talent around the league, plus Rhyan already competing for snaps on a rookie deal, it stands to reason that a league-average starting guard like Runyan would have a bigger market outside of Green Bay. Remember Jason Spitz? He was a solid player who gave us some starts. What we didn't do was pay him. That is how I feel about JRJ. Like the guy, like the player. Just don't like paying probably twice as much money for similar production vs the in-house replacement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 20 minutes ago, incognito_man said: "If" What makes you think he's expecting to be paid like a "quality starting guard"? And how much is that? How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 53 minutes ago, incognito_man said: It's not an easy task to justify staff changes to people who actually know football after a season that handily exceeded expectations. Convince me that Rashan Gary was better than Joe Barry this season when it mattered Cant disagree that Gary was under performance per salary. But really hard to move on from Gary financially Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: With anything, there's a trade-off. Is it better value to keep Runyan AND Rhyan since there's a dearth of talent? Otherwise we'll need to invest a pick on IOL to replace him (instead of using that at another position). I don't buy for a second that he's less valuable to GB than other places. Rhyan is not good enough for him to factor in. It depends on your evaluation of JRJ and Rhyan. If you think that JRJ is a superior starter, then you pay him like a starter. If you think Rhyan is equal or better than JRJ, then you don't pay JRJ. If you think Rhyan stinks on ice, then you pay JRJ. I think Rhyan has been good enough in his snaps in 2023 to go with him as a cheaper option in 2024. Add a draft pick, and Newman to the mix and save paying a second contract on a guard. We have 8 draft picks as of today, and are likely to receive a comp pick in each of the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds. There is plenty of capital to grab a guard or two on a rookie contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 19 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Remember Jason Spitz? He was a solid player who gave us some starts. What we didn't do was pay him. That is how I feel about JRJ. Like the guy, like the player. Just don't like paying probably twice as much money for similar production vs the in-house replacement. Spitz started 4/32 games his last two years in GB JRJ has started 50/51 games his last 3 years in GB Not really a similar comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 17 minutes ago, squire12 said: Cant disagree that Gary was under performance per salary. But really hard to move on from Gary financially I know. I'm not suggesting that at all Just pointing out that Barry very arguably did his job better than Gary when it mattered most yet the opinions of those two are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Doesn't add up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 11 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: It depends on your evaluation of JRJ and Rhyan. If you think that JRJ is a superior starter, then you pay him like a starter. If you think Rhyan is equal or better than JRJ, then you don't pay JRJ. If you think Rhyan stinks on ice, then you pay JRJ. I think Rhyan has been good enough in his snaps in 2023 to go with him as a cheaper option in 2024. Add a draft pick, and Newman to the mix and save paying a second contract on a guard. We have 8 draft picks as of today, and are likely to receive a comp pick in each of the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds. There is plenty of capital to grab a guard or two on a rookie contract. My preference would be to find a guy that's obviously better than both and get him because I want a stud OL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 As with any guy, it depends on the price. But o-line depth is invaluable. *IF* Runyan was pretty cheap, $5/2 or $8/3 type deal, I'm in. *IF* he's getting $12/2 offers, I'm out. You guys can anticipate the market better than I can, so I can't really guess. O-line is traditionally one of the most-injury-prone groups in the National Injury League. We were really lucky there this year. Other than Bakhti being predictably injured, we didn't have any multi-games-absent injuries. If Runyan is available at $5/2 type deal, we might be super glad to have him on reserve next year. Have seen too many seasons fail with backup linemen. It's not like every 3rd-day OL is somebody you want starting in the playoffs next year as a rookie. Rhyan was 3rd rounder, and it's taken him 2 years to be OK. Newman was 4th round, and year 3 he's not good. Probably he's good enough to price out. But just saying that there is value in a smart, anti-awful contingency guy on a modest contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Quick glance had #32 OG at $3.6mil the last couple years and already at $4.4mil for 2024. That $4mil/yr cutoff seems about right for JRJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 40 minutes ago, incognito_man said: With anything, there's a trade-off. Is it better value to keep Runyan AND Rhyan since there's a dearth of talent? Otherwise we'll need to invest a pick on IOL to replace him (instead of using that at another position). I don't buy for a second that he's less valuable to GB than other places. Rhyan is not good enough for him to factor in. I think we'll invest more draft picks in the O-line than some are anticipating. We need some cheap young talent there and have the draft picks to do it. Yosh and Maybe JRJ gone? They're going to at least make 2 picks at O-line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 2 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said: I think we'll invest more draft picks in the O-line than some are anticipating. We need some cheap young talent there and have the draft picks to do it. Yosh and Maybe JRJ gone? They're going to at least make 2 picks at O-line. Wont comment on JRJ....but 73 is a convenient body to have around "In Case Of Emergency" Good to acceptable against the run of the mill DE's....but the elite guys? Seem to eat him for lunch and mandate he get helped out. Too bad for him Big Dog's no longer around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: Top 5 graded offensive player vs SF, too. He's a valuable roster piece at the right price. I wonder if we could get him back on a Lucas Patrick type deal (2y/8m). I'd do that for a guy who can play OG and OC and either be a guy you can start and win with, or he's your top interior backup if you upgrade in the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 59 minutes ago, incognito_man said: My preference would be to find a guy that's obviously better than both and get him because I want a stud OL. Well, duh. But the JRJ situation has to be resolved before the draft, or at the time of signing an outside free agent. So my question remains, if JRJ is not a major upgrade to Sean Rhyan, why would you re-sign him rather than try to find another guard in the draft? Save a few million on the cap, and see if you can do better with a younger player. 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: Spitz started 4/32 games his last two years in GB JRJ has started 50/51 games his last 3 years in GB Not really a similar comparison I must have misremembered Spitz. I thought he started most of two seasons then we drafted Sitton, who was better and he mostly sat his last season. I still thought Spitz was solid but not spectacular, similar to what I think of JRJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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