CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, JBURGE25 said: you are not in a good mood today woody I just don't understand why we have to make rocket science out of simple math. It's astounding how much we want to overthink things. I could care less about how many jet sweeps we run or how many trick plays we run. If we're effective playing vanilla, play vanilla. The worst thing you can do is try and be someone you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: First off, why does creative somehow imply effective? We're a top 5 offense with a healthy Aaron Rodgers, and we're not that "creative" offensively. I could give a damn about how creative an offense is. Effective offenses are effective regardless of whether or not they're creative. The only thing creative does is gives fans a reason to get excited. There's more hit or miss than people care to admit. And I don't really understand Pederson's quote. It's easy to say when you're playing with house money. Rodgers was never good against the good Bears, Seahawks and current Vikings defenses. Zimmer always got him in Cincy. The Broncos made him look awful in 2015. ISO routes don't beat extremely talented defenses. Those defenses make a lot of teams look bad, but Mac does Aaron no favors against those teams. There's other times (Patriots at Lambeau in 2015) where we play a really good defense and Mac has a really creative gameplan. He could afford to be more consistent there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: I just don't understand why we have to make rocket science out of simple math. It's astounding how much we want to overthink things. I could care less about how many jet sweeps we run or how many trick plays we run. If we're effective playing vanilla, play vanilla. The worst thing you can do is try and be someone you're not. I'm not talking about running jet sweeps. I'm talking about being creative with personnel and not running the 11 every down. I know we made a step in the right direction this past year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Rodgers was never good against the good Bears, Seahawks and current Vikings defenses. Zimmer always got him in Cincy. The Broncos made him look awful in 2015. ISO routes don't beat extremely talented defenses. Those defenses make a lot of teams look bad, but Mac does Aaron no favors against those teams. There's other times (Patriots at Lambeau in 2015) where we play a really good defense and Mac has a really creative gameplan. He could afford to be more consistent there. Rodgers' desire for the huge play is always going to hurt him against teams who are patient. That's one of the knocks on Rodgers we've always had. Tampa-2 defenses are the exact type of defenses that Aaron Rodgers doesn't like playing against. But we're so ingrained to take it out on McCarthy, and refuse to be critical of Rodgers. How many times has Rodgers missed an easy dump off that would go for 5/6 yards and instead force a low percentage throw for a big gain? Too many times too count. I'm not saying that McCarthy couldn't be more creative, but the idea that we need to be this "creative" offense in order to succeed needs to die. Add them as wrinkles, not staples of your offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, JBURGE25 said: I'm not talking about running jet sweeps. I'm talking about being creative with personnel and not running the 11 every down. I know we made a step in the right direction this past year We haven't really had the personnel to run anything other than 11, and I'd also make the argument that our 3rd WR has always been exponentially more talented than our #2 TE. Does anyone in here honestly believe that the Packers are better off with Lance Kendricks or Richard Rodgers on the field instead of Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb? I want my best player on the field, point blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Rodgers' desire for the huge play is always going to hurt him against teams who are patient. That's one of the knocks on Rodgers we've always had. Tampa-2 defenses are the exact type of defenses that Aaron Rodgers doesn't like playing against. But we're so ingrained to take it out on McCarthy, and refuse to be critical of Rodgers. How many times has Rodgers missed an easy dump off that would go for 5/6 yards and instead force a low percentage throw for a big gain? Too many times too count. I'm not saying that McCarthy couldn't be more creative, but the idea that we need to be this "creative" offense in order to succeed needs to die. Add them as wrinkles, not staples of your offense. No NFL offense revolves around anything other than your meat and potatoes plays every team runs. The difference is on 3rd and 3 in the 4th Q are you calling another one of those meat and potatoes plays or do you have something fresh you can pull out of the playbook? I.E. Rodgers the week after coming back from a collarbone break pulls out a zone read on 4th and 1 in Carolina and gets an easy 1st down. We haven't been as fresh in critical scenarios as we could've been. The Davante slant works a lot, but if we're in the playoffs and he's got Rhodes lined up on him, I'd rather we run something we've been saving for a big moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: No NFL offense revolves around anything other than your meat and potatoes plays every team runs. The difference is on 3rd and 3 in the 4th Q are you calling another one of those meat and potatoes plays or do you have something fresh you can pull out of the playbook? I.E. Rodgers the week after coming back from a collarbone break pulls out a zone read on 4th and 1 in Carolina and gets an easy 1st down. We haven't been as fresh in critical scenarios as we could've been. The Davante slant works a lot, but if we're in the playoffs and he's got Rhodes lined up on him, I'd rather we run something we've been saving for a big moment. You're going to use the plays you feel you're most likely going to convert that 3rd down on. You use the "meat and potato" play to indicate that the defense knows what you're doing, but there's subtle changes you can make to keep defenses honest. You're making the implication that one of those "fresh" plays as a higher success rate than the ones that have proven time and time again are more successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I think Arden Key is going to be available when our 2nd round pick comes up and I also think this forum will lose its mind when we pass on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: You're going to use the plays you feel you're most likely going to convert that 3rd down on. You use the "meat and potato" play to indicate that the defense knows what you're doing, but there's subtle changes you can make to keep defenses honest. You're making the implication that one of those "fresh" plays as a higher success rate than the ones that have proven time and time again are more successful. I didn't imply anything, simply saying again that watching the 2017 post season showed me how prevalent the use of misdirection, play action, motions and trick plays are in the NFL versus what we see out of Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Rodjahs12 said: I think Arden Key is going to be available when our 2nd round pick comes up and I also think this forum will lose its mind when we pass on him. This is all irrelevant until the Combine, but I hope the era where passing on the Key's of the draft are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: I didn't imply anything, simply saying again that watching the 2017 post season showed me how prevalent the use of misdirection, play action, motions and trick plays are in the NFL versus what we see out of Mac. Use of the RB as a primary pass catching weapon. White, Lewis, Grant, McKinnon, Clement. GB has those players in Monty and Jones. Even Williams showed he was capable of being a pass catching threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: This is all irrelevant until the Combine, but I hope the era where passing on the Key's of the draft are over. I’d like to think so as well, but Key the person scares the crap out of me and I can see why a first year GM wouldn’t feel comfortable investing a high pick on and betting on a guy like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I didn't imply anything, simply saying again that watching the 2017 post season showed me how prevalent the use of misdirection, play action, motions and trick plays are in the NFL versus what we see out of Mac. But it shouldn't be a staple of your offense to make it as complicated as humanly possible. IF the Packers weren't productive with Rodgers under center, I could easily understand the argument that the Packers need to be more creative. But they're productive, so anything more than an add wrinkle is muddying it up even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: But it shouldn't be a staple of your offense to make it as complicated as humanly possible. IF the Packers weren't productive with Rodgers under center, I could easily understand the argument that the Packers need to be more creative. But they're productive, so anything more than an add wrinkle is muddying it up even further. Effective? Yeah. Maximizing what Aaron can do? Not even close. I don’t care to go down this road though as it’s clear this conversation as a whole isn’t going anywhere productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: This is all irrelevant until the Combine, but I hope the era where passing on the Key's of the draft are over. To play devil's advocate, at what point does the risk not be worth the potential reward? I mean, there were people who were ready to riot over the Packers passing on Randy Gregory. Fast forward a few years, he's suspended for the entire year and probably not far away from an indefinite suspension. IF the rumors of the hard drugs are true, I'm not sure you can take him in the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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