Arthur Penske Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Has anyone else heard anything on why Key was away from LSU? I heard his dad was saying he explained the reason to some NFL teams at the combine but then never heard anything else about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 My worry with Denzel Ward is that is he a playmaker like Jackson? Can he overcome his size disadvantage in the NFL. He may have been an outstanding player at college level but the NFL has a funny way of making those players look ordinary because they cannot overcome their disadvantages. For me you need outstanding traits to build upon if they are to become outstanding NFL players. It could be speed, agility, ball skills, instincts, athleticism, power, size, arms. Whatever it is a player need to have more than one of those traits. Just relying on speed alone may not be enough. Ward may look great now but in 4 years does he turn into an average NFL player? Look at Amukarmara. Was a top pick but he hasn't amounted to much in the NFL. He's a solid player but nothing much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said: Jacksons body type is a lot nicer than Rollins, playing speed is better than Rollins imo. I'm a sucker for guys who gets a lot of picks, I liked Rollins coming out because of that as well. Guy gets his hands on a lot of balls that aren't even picks which is intriguing. I honestly wouldn't be mad if we took him at 14. You not worried we might be repeating the same mistake as we did with Rollins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Sammich Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I was hoping for Lawson too, and I couldn't quite fathom the pick at the time (or lack thereof). I was told after the fact that most teams had taken Lawson off their board due to his medical at the combine. Which is frustrating because we drafted two other guys with medical issues, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, ArthurPensky said: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/carl-lawson?id=2557901 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/vince-biegel?id=2557906 Biegel and Lawson had same 40. Biegel had a better vertical, broad jump, and 3 cone. Lawson had more bench press. I wanted Lawson too, but he's not a "better athlete" than Beigel according to the data.. Let's let Biegel play a healthy season first. Even though Biegel was a bit better athletically he was still ordinary by NFL standards. He didn't have any outstanding traits. Lawson had much more power in his game. He also moved well enough as a 260+ lbs edge rusher, you can see that on tape despite what his combine numbers say. His stocky, musular build and the power he manages to generate in his pass rush was his outstanding trait and he built upon that to help him succeed in the NFL. Biegel is not going to play with power, he isn't going to bend the edge with speed like Matthews. He will need to get a little heavier and stronger to cope with the physical demands of the NFL but he also need become a smart technician if he is to succeed in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, Chili said: You not worried we might be repeating the same mistake as we did with Rollins? I mean in the late second round I think it was a fine spot to pick Rollins. He's struggled with injuries, so it's hard to judge if it was a mistake drafting him. Jackson just seems like a lot better player coming out to me, his tackling could use some work but I think his coverage skills are fine, nothing you can't improve on in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Chili said: Biegel is not going to play with power, he isn't going to bend the edge with speed like Matthews. He will need to get a little heavier and stronger to cope with the physical demands of the NFL but he also need become a smart technician if he is to succeed in the NFL. Look, I'm implying saying Biegel is going to be Matthews in his prime or close to it. But they're measurables from the combine are pretty damn similar. Biegel is an athlete. I think Justo had him as one of his force players last year. He's got some athletic tools to work with. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/vince-biegel?id=2557906 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/clay-matthews?id=80431 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 59 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Isn't it possible that Lawson falling that far in the draft only to go to the Bengals is some sort of sign? Is there something about his personality that maybe scared teams away? He was supposed to be a late first to mid second round talent, wasn't he? NFL Scouts know more about players than anyone here combined could possibly know about a player, so maybe something about Lawson scared teams away. It's not like the Bengals shy away from poor personalities after all. Lawson was a medical red flag, then again so was Biegel. Lawson was knee and Biegel foot. Maybe having the foot guy in house made us more comfortable with Biegel than Lawson. I'm not sure but IMO Ted dropped the ball there. Lawson I rated out as a mid 2nd, Biegel I had an early 4th grade on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ArthurPensky said: Has anyone else heard anything on why Key was away from LSU? I heard his dad was saying he explained the reason to some NFL teams at the combine but then never heard anything else about it. The rumor I was under the impression was that it was a rehab situation. From what I've heard, hard drugs. No clue if there's any truth to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Ham Sammich said: I was hoping for Lawson too, and I couldn't quite fathom the pick at the time (or lack thereof). I was told after the fact that most teams had taken Lawson off their board due to his medical at the combine. Which is frustrating because we drafted two other guys with medical issues, but it is what it is. There's a point where you're willing to gamble on those medicals. But there are players that you completely remove from the board. The fact that the Packers took Vince Biegel right before Lawson tells me that they completely removed Lawson from the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Lawson was a medical red flag, then again so was Biegel. Lawson was knee and Biegel foot. Maybe having the foot guy in house made us more comfortable with Biegel than Lawson. I'm not sure but IMO Ted dropped the ball there. Lawson I rated out as a mid 2nd, Biegel I had an early 4th grade on. Nobody questioned Lawson's talent level. We're essentially sitting here speculating on something we don't have access to. There was enough that the medical doctors that are paid took him off the board. I'll trust the medical experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: The rumor I was under the impression was that it was a rehab situation. From what I've heard, hard drugs. No clue if there's any truth to that. No link. I understood that it was rehab from surgery (shoulder?) that led to a little opioid problem. That has since been dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Chili said: I'm trying to justify taking Joshua Jackson at 14 when we tried to do the same thing drafting a similar prospect in Quinton Rollins but in the 2nd round. Both were 1 year wonders. One switching from Basketball and the other switching from WR. Jackson is a little taller and longer but their overall speed is the same. Both shown the knack for locating the ball. However Jackson beats Rollins in the agility department. I don't want us to draft a solid, safe prospects. I want us to aim for physically impressive and/or highly athletic, high upside players whenever we can. I think Jackson fits that critera, do you agree or is he too similar to Rollins? I look at last year. Biegel is not a physically impressive prospect. We passed on Watt for King, fair enough but passing on the physically impressive Lawson over Biegel was a head stratcher. Lawson is a little shorter but he was 15lbs heavier and packed alot more power in his game and that translated to the NFL. If you're gonna have a body type like Biegel or Fackrell you better be damn quick to compensate for that lack of power which neither are. Lawson vs Biegel I'm honestly not sure what the Packers were thinking there. They had an entire day to think about it before the start of day 3 of the draft. What was it they felt about Biegel that they couldn't pass on? What outstanding traits did he have that stood apart from Lawson? I've always felt the Packers valued "workers" over higher upside players and as a result we had too many football players who were held back for whatever reason such as being too slow or too short or not athletic enough because it was believed that their hard working traits would help overcome that. Sometimes it would work such as Hyde and Martinez but most of the time it doesn't. During Thompson's tenure whenever he says "good football players", in Packers speak that translates to mean players with a strong work ethic. I thought Lawson's deal was medical... Not like Biegle's wasn't.... But, point being, I don't think it had anything to do with an attitude that the kid had. Sorry for re-post...should have read entire thread first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 24 days and 8.5 hours away from the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: Nobody questioned Lawson's talent level. We're essentially sitting here speculating on something we don't have access to. There was enough that the medical doctors that are paid took him off the board. I'll trust the medical experts. Do we know this or maybe we poorly evaluated Biegel as the better prospect given both had medical issues. It's funny that we would have taken Lawson off the board and not Biegel and then Lawson turned out to be fine basically all season and Biegel was an injury disaster in year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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