incognito_man Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I've already listened to the whole thing. We all understand your ideology Incog, you make it abundantly clear. Half the world thinks the opposite of you. Nah, probably more like 80% of the world thinks differently than me when it comes to ideologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zycho32 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 And what's going on in this thread- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 Here's the thing thought RE: Butker. If someone goes to a meeting of people and says bigoted and/or stupid stuff, there's no absolution in "well, everybody else there already believed it". If it's a famous person doing so, this mostly serves as an indictment of their audience. Like if Butker went to a klan rally and said a bunch of racist stuff, we wouldn't be saying "well, everybody else at the klan rally was a racist, so he was just telling them things they already believed" as though this forgives or explains anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 4 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: Here's the thing thought RE: Butker. If someone goes to a meeting of people and says bigoted and/or stupid stuff, there's no absolution in "well, everybody else there already believed it". If it's a famous person doing so, this mostly serves as an indictment of their audience. Like if Butker went to a klan rally and said a bunch of racist stuff, we wouldn't be saying "well, everybody else at the klan rally was a racist, so he was just telling them things they already believed" as though this forgives or explains anything. Wow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) 11 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: Here's the thing thought RE: Butker. If someone goes to a meeting of people and says bigoted and/or stupid stuff, there's no absolution in "well, everybody else there already believed it". If it's a famous person doing so, this mostly serves as an indictment of their audience. Like if Butker went to a klan rally and said a bunch of racist stuff, we wouldn't be saying "well, everybody else at the klan rally was a racist, so he was just telling them things they already believed" as though this forgives or explains anything. I read this in Norm MacDonald's voice and it enhanced the experience Edited May 17 by incognito_man 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 14 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: Here's the thing thought RE: Butker. If someone goes to a meeting of people and says bigoted and/or stupid stuff, there's no absolution in "well, everybody else there already believed it". If it's a famous person doing so, this mostly serves as an indictment of their audience. Like if Butker went to a klan rally and said a bunch of racist stuff, we wouldn't be saying "well, everybody else at the klan rally was a racist, so he was just telling them things they already believed" as though this forgives or explains anything. Comparing someone's faith to a clan meeting is a ridiculous take. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 Just now, R T said: Comparing someone's faith to a clan meeting is a ridiculous take. "I believe this because it's my religion" doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either, since religions have throughout history put forth all sorts of stupid, destructive ideas. There's exactly one person in Catholicism who's supposed to be infallible and it's not Harrison Butker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger93 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) I started the pain in here, I'll hope to stop it with my last statement. I'm hopefully gone after that. Yes, he has the right of free speech and he has the right to express it. But for me "free" speech only lasts until it restricts other people's rights that are covered by the law. His comment about women need to be happy with growing children and spending their lives in the kitchen is ridiculous and obnoxious, but not covered by the law, so he can say that. Not sure I would say that at that time and age, especially with a group of people that might think I just took 120.000 of student loan to catch up and are not allowed to start a career, but catholic people probably have a different thinking than I have. What I really have a problem with, is how he calls the LGBTQ community a "deadly sin". Who the **** is he to decide who can fall in love and who cannot? It's absolutely not his business and he should stay out if he really cares about free speech. I apologize for my words used, I apologize for getting it escalated that quickly, but I don't apologize for the content. If it comes down to abortion rights, homophobia and rightwing Bull****, I will raise my voice in any second. I'm german, so I know what these **** can do to your country and I don't want to have it again. Edited May 17 by Gravedigger93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 The preemptive defense of Butker is weird. Like nobody is saying the Chiefs need to cut him or that he shouldn't be employed in a league that also employs Aaron Rodgers. There are obviously all kinds of stupid people in football. We should be able to criticize NFL players when they say stupid stuff. Just because they genuinely believe it, doesn't make it less stupid. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 5 minutes ago, R T said: Comparing someone's faith to a clan meeting is a ridiculous take. Don't miss out on the germane point while fixated on a comparison that wasn't intended the way you're thinking right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Don't miss out on the germane point while fixated on a comparison that wasn't intended the way you're thinking right now That's a reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: Butker's clownishness is due primarily to his belief that his worldview is the answer to the problems he brought up. It's laughable, really. And almost totally devoid of merit. Talk about virtue signaling! His entire speech was. He is pretty clearly a fringe extremist in his beliefs as a Catholic. Many Catholics certainly are justified in feeling offended by his stated entrance criteria to be one. Clown gonna clown. He deserves the criticism. Writing this off as "Catholic person saying Catholic things" carries the understanding of a toddler. The irony here is truly mind-blowing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 13 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: The preemptive defense of Butker is weird. Like nobody is saying the Chiefs need to cut him or that he shouldn't be employed in a league that also employs Aaron Rodgers. There are obviously all kinds of stupid people in football. We should be able to criticize NFL players when they say stupid stuff. Just because they genuinely believe it, doesn't make it less stupid. Can we criticize stupid posts from usually smart posters? What is right on cue is the media overreacting and taking what he said out of context to demonize him. The fact you think his religious beliefs are stupid is more of an indictment on you than him. There are a whole lot of college students doing and saying really stupid things right now and the masses are defending them. It's like we are living in bizzarro world. I'm going to stop right now because this only head downhill from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, Refugee said: Alright, since mods are also getting in on the fun I’ll take a bite of the **** sandwich. Surely this guy has the right to speak his opinions and was invited to do so, but people have the right to air any praises or grievances based on their own values. One of the biggest issues he has run into is not only speaking for himself, but making a pretty damn presumptuous statement about how women will feel about their lives and future. That might not disturb you personally but I don’t see how anyone with a passing understanding of history might not see how that could cross the line for many people and especially women who have fought to have the same standing as men for longer than any of us have been alive. Similarly he is setting his own litmus tests for what a “real Catholic” is. Saying that’s just media hype is dead wrong. He literally says his interpretation is the correct one. He goes on to name the president, who is a lifelong Catholic, saying he doesn’t pass the litmus test. The thing is he doesn’t get to decide that. He’s entitled to his own beliefs but will obviously draw some fire once he steps out of his own experience and talks about what is most important in a woman’s life or what a good catholic is. He doesn’t speak for any of those groups as a whole any more than you speak for every pickup or Prius owner. There’s a pretty damn diverse spectrum of perspectives, moral guidelines and beliefs in any group larger than one. Saying he said nothing controversial is not supported by the reality, but more importantly is not for you to decide. People will decide if it offends them or not and move accordingly. The NFL is a large corporation who is mostly concerned about its bottom line. They don’t care what side of the aisle the money comes from. They will, however, triangulate their position into what they think the majority support and at this moment they are definitely distancing themselves from Butker’s comments. He won’t lose his job but his consequences will be from the court of public opinion. As an entertainer, public opinion does matter to his employer and can impact his future opportunities. The leftist harpies hate him for being Catholic in the first place. Not expressing your opinion because they're going to be pissy with you is literally one of the things he addressed. He gave a pretty damn compelling argument for the one example you chose to site as a wrongfully accused fake Catholic. The fact that Biden hasn't been excommunicated by the church is a classic example of the Church of Nice that he spent a good portion of the speech talking about. Nobody said he didn't say anything controversial. The things that people are pissy about, aren't what he was wrong about in that speech though. You're more than welcome to call him a bad person. Just like I'm then entitled to call you a hypocritical whack job. The NFL was quicker to come out against Butker than they were against Ray Rice caving in his wife's face and dragging her unconscious body around a hotel like a leopard with a dead gazelle. Spare me the NFL's opinion on anything. If you don't think this speech was good for Butler's future earnings, you're insane. If 99% of the country didn't know your name before an event, and know 30% like you and 30% dislike you, you made a brilliant PR play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: Go back and read the transcript AG posted. I bet 98% of people read the mainstream media "Butker tells Woman to Stay in the Kitchen" and assume what the rest of the speech is about. Nothing Butker said about his wife should offend anyone, if it does I honestly feel sorry for you. Bro is literally tearing up as he's talking about how much he loves his wife and how much she means to him. He is fawning in his praise of her. That's a deeply unserious criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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