Top 5 Most Disappointing Steelers of 2017

[AFF]

Slightly OT, but for Bells tag salary...$14 mill...would anyone hate the idea of signing Carlos Hyde and say Kenny Vaccaro instead?

Maybe even have a mill or 2 leftover in terms of year 1 salary cap impact.

[Steeler Hitman]

Losing brings out the worst in competitors.  I think we are all still stinging after all the drama, heart attack wins, and how our season ended with a home play-off loss to the Jaguars.

 

Bud Dupree - -  I thought that Bud would have had a much greater impact on the defense in terms of productivity and leadership.  After he came back from injuries last season, he played with fire and was making intimidating hits.  I, like most fans, expected a natural progression into the 2018 season.  Bud busted his butt this off season working with former Atlanta Falcon Edge Rusher Chuck Smith.  However, he never sniffed coming close to the 8 - 12 sack range that I was predicting for Bud.  Part of it was dropping into coverage on a lot of passing downs, but Bud owns a lot of it as he did not make enough plays consistently in the run or the pass game.  He was at times consumed by opposing OL's in the running and passing game. The Jaguars OL feasted on Bud and others.  However, I am not ready to give up on him. I do not think he is Jarvis Jones 2.0, but this year will be make or break for him.

Mike Mitchell - - I am stunned and very disappointed that he never took his game to the next level here in Pittsburgh. He was given every chance and it just did not translate from a production standpoint.  I think he has gotten a raw deal being called "a thug" by some commentators. I think he is a good guy, but a horrible FS for this team.  A few years ago he made thunderous tackles, forced fumbles and intimidated receivers and ball carriers. Now he has been more of a mouse who roared. I would love to see an upgrade here in the off season.  I would cut him and try to pursue another young guy to pair with Davis. Eric Reid, Tre Boston or Michael Thomas are guys who I would give close consideration to signing.

Sean Davis - - I have a man crush on this kid and I am a bit of a homer when it comes to him.  He did not elevate his game throughout the year to the next level as I had hoped.  Davis was at times beaten badly, woefully out of position and at times looked dazed and confused back there. Davis is known for his high IQ, but yet he failed to grasp and take over the leadership role on the back end of the defense.  He also failed to secure a few INT's. The most notable was against the Patriots on their final drive which would have ended the game and secured the number one seed for the play-offs.  He needs to come back strong or he will lose his position.  Perhaps teaming him with a decent center field type of FS will help the overall defense. The Steelers were surprisingly soft up the gut all season.

Javon Hargrave - - Last years draft class seems to have had the cursed sophomore slump.  Although this was not completely Hargrave's fault as he was put in position to play where he just does not have the body or size to be a NG and never had a complimentary DT alongside of him.  He needs a beefy guy who can play NG or play as a run stuffing DT.  Again, the Steelers were soft in the middle all season and it starts up front.  They had many problems consistently stopping the rushing attack against physical OL's (Bears, Ravens, Jaguars, Packers, Bengals and others).  Hargrave is a perpetrator who can rely on speed and slashing to create a pass rush up the middle. He needs to be pushing up-field rather than trying to occupy 330 LB OG's or taking on a center and guard double team.  He takes the hit from production, but I think the ultimate blame is on the coaches here.

Artie Burns - - What a tremendous young man. Like Davis and others, has tremendous heart and character, but is not having success as expected on the field. He did not step up his game to the next level.  He was improved in some regards, but his run support, tackling, and pass coverage where all inconsistent. I expected Artie to at least match his 2017 INT total.  More often than  not he was getting beat deep or found himself out of position in coverage or drawing a pass interference call. This falls on Coach T and Coach Lake as they did not get the most of Artie or anyone else in the secondary not named Mike Hilton or Joe Haden.

 

Honorable mentions:

James Connor - - So sorry to see this kid get hurt. He was starting to come on and his physical downhill style was a good compliment to Bell's style. I am not so much disappointed in his play, but I had hoped he would get more time on the field. I saw him creating a dynamic 1-2 running back punch similar to Bell and Williams last year.

JJ Wilcox - - I thought that he would push Mitchell for playing time and give the Steelers three hard hitting and rangy safeties. He saw little defensive action after suffering a concussion against the Bears (I think).  Then he played only special teams and usually got a holding or illegal block then.  I thought he was a good pick-up, but wow as I woefully wrong there. He didn't play enough to be more disappointing than honorable mention.

[warfelg]

20 minutes ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

Slightly OT, but for Bells tag salary...$14 mill...would anyone hate the idea of signing Carlos Hyde and say Kenny Vaccaro instead?

Maybe even have a mill or 2 leftover in terms of year 1 salary cap impact.

Yes, because Hyde was a stat compiler on a bad team and Vaccaro is just like Davis but injury prone.

[MOSteelers56]

55 minutes ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

Slightly OT, but for Bells tag salary...$14 mill...would anyone hate the idea of signing Carlos Hyde and say Kenny Vaccaro instead?

Maybe even have a mill or 2 leftover in terms of year 1 salary cap impact.

I'm softening on the idea of keeping Bell. I think our defensive needs are too great to pay Bell 14 million. Plus, with all these reports of him showing up late are coming out. I don't know if Hyde or Vaccaro are worth the money. I'd rather sign a FS and draft a RB to pair with Ridley/Watson and Connor. 

[warfelg]

32 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'm softening on the idea of keeping Bell. I think our defensive needs are too great to pay Bell 14 million. Plus, with all these reports of him showing up late are coming out. I don't know if Hyde or Vaccaro are worth the money. I'd rather sign a FS and draft a RB to pair with Ridley/Watson and Connor. 

Yea.....it's a really tricky spot.

My issue is, if you don't use the $14mil on Bell, is there enough defensive guys available that can help us out to spend the money on.  So if I'm carving out that much cap space I better be having an eye on using it on someone.  So at that point I land on might as well keep him because I don't think we're getting enough anywhere with that $14mil that offsets the loss of Bell.

[3rivers]

@DR43  not sure who the best option is at OLB, but if they stay 3-4  then they need to win in the draft and get results rookie season.  There could be some UFA out there, others here know more about who's available. If they sat 3-4 and don't get a player that makes impact immediately , how can the team expect improvement? Getting stats (sack, pressures) against teams with injured or not so good OL really won't matter. In the playoffs, teams almost always have the better OL's in the league. That is the best time to evaluate the teams needs as evident in the jacksonville game.

I meant remaining roster , just thought I would bring up how they failed Harrison, but he will be in the SB anyways . Agree he won't play a snap here again. 

@MOSteelers56 I thought Tuitt wasn't the same for some reason. If it wasn't injury related, you might have a valid point

@JustPlainNasty  your assessment of burns has me thinking this team has not evaluated DB's well.  Would you agree and who is to blame. I have never seen RD1 play from burns, more like mid round - another failed RD1 pick by whoever is to blame. Also what did you think of my dupree and jarvis comparison? 

3 hours ago, JLambert58 said:

Can you imagine if Sensabaugh was our starting CB all year?  *shudders*  He was a decent depth CB at best.  Haden was a great pickup, but skill-wise and also brought a lot of energy, physicality and positive mindset to the secondary.   Hope we can work out something with him for a few years. 

 

You would have to imagine the NFL without the Browns I suppose. Why they released him I have no idea. A reason not to hate the Browns (for a while)

 

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

I heard somewhere that Tuitt will be getting offseason back surgery and it was a big problem the last month.

This would explain it. 

 

2 hours ago, Blitzburgh said:

By no means am I saying Dupree is good or doesn’t need replaced.  However,  many fail to realize how much the Steelers are dropping their OLBs.  Dupree shouldn’t be dropping as much as the Steelers have him dropping.  I think if the Steelers used him more as a rusher and utilized his size , speed, and strength he would be much better statically.   I think most need to realize that the days of Harrison and Woodely both getting double digit sacks are done until there is a scheme change.   I think it is part of Tomlin’s stamp on this defense.I remember Woodely complaining about his reduction in pass rush vs coverage % during his down fall. The Steelers are not using OLB as primary pass rushers anymore.  I think it’s one of the main reasons Harrison was expandable.

Also if you buy into analytics and things like SPARQ you know that the bust rate of edge rushers with scores like Dupree is very low.  I think his lack of sacks go more into how the Steelers are using him.

 

 

while your points on dropping into coverage are valid ( and I never understood why they did this, thought it was LeBeaus failed patent) , I don't think it matters with dupree. He has proven to be of no use in the pass rush  so they might opt to drop him because of that as well/ more often than one would expect in this scheme.  3 years and he has not pass rush move(s) or counter etc, how many more years to learn when a RD1 pick should already have the arsenal. Try to trade him now while there might be value, but what a waste of a RD1 picks again. The Matt Moore hit was good though, shows he will chase and hit, but that was it. 

[MOSteelers56]

I do think it was Tuitt's injury that made him lose some effectiveness. An elbow is pretty important for a d-linemen. They're constantly pushing and pulling. I still have absolute faith in Tuitt's ability to bounce back. I was just stating he was a disappointment compared to his rather lofty expectations during the offseason. 

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Bud Dupree - -  I thought that Bud would have had a much greater impact on the defense in terms of productivity and leadership.  After he came back from injuries last season, he played with fire and was making intimidating hits.  I, like most fans, expected a natural progression into the 2018 season.  Bud busted his butt this off season working with former Atlanta Falcon Edge Rusher Chuck Smith.  However, he never sniffed coming close to the 8 - 12 sack range that I was predicting for Bud.  Part of it was dropping into coverage on a lot of passing downs, but Bud owns a lot of it as he did not make enough plays consistently in the run or the pass game.  He was at times consumed by opposing OL's in the running and passing game. The Jaguars OL feasted on Bud and others.  However, I am not ready to give up on him. I do not think he is Jarvis Jones 2.0, but this year will be make or break for him.

I agree about Dupree willing to hit, the Moore hit was a start that I hope would be contagious to the team and move on in that direction.  It's good that Dupree has work ethic but this makes the case to trade him stronger.  I never liked the idea of dropping our OLB's into coverage as much as the coaches do, but in dupree's case, he never generates the rush required. He might get garbage stats in the make or break season, but he is slow off the snap and has yet to have any sort or pass rush moves so to me I can't expect a break out.  How many RD1 DE's or OLB's rely on only athleticism ? Wasted RD1 pick again by the FO.

 

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'm softening on the idea of keeping Bell. I think our defensive needs are too great to pay Bell 14 million. Plus, with all these reports of him showing up late are coming out. I don't know if Hyde or Vaccaro are worth the money. I'd rather sign a FS and draft a RB to pair with Ridley/Watson and Connor. 

Consider how we did with Dwill at RB and how the D never got any pressure in the jags game, it should be obvious to the FO what we should do. Someone on one of the networks said the steelers have no chance at getting further in the post season if the don't sign Bell. I think the opposite, that if we pay him and can't improve the D, the team won't be able to defeat legit teams unless this Offence  finally  becomes elite and breaks scoring records.

[AFF]

6 hours ago, warfelg said:

Yes, because Hyde was a stat compiler on a bad team and Vaccaro is just like Davis but injury prone.

Disagree...especially on Hyde. Good RB and stayed healthy. Showed he’s capable in passing game. Now if you think you can get a similar talent back in draft that’s 1 thing but I find it hard to believe Steelers go into next year with Connor...and say Michael from Ga as top 2 backs on depth chart.

 

[Blitzburgh]

All this talk about them switching to a 4-3 is unrealistic.  It’s not even worth talking about.

Im not huge on spending big money on Bell.  However, I don’t think they spend it on big name FAs if they don’t sign him. 

 

 

[3rivers]

31 minutes ago, Blitzburgh said:

All this talk about them switching to a 4-3 is unrealistic.  It’s not even worth talking about.

Im not huge on spending big money on Bell.  However, I don’t think they spend it on big name FAs if they don’t sign him. 

 

 

it's only worth talking about the roster has taken more suitable for the 4-3. With Watt being our only OLB known to be a good enough starter, it is a potential weakness if the team stays 3-4.  We have many interior 4-3 DL and Heyward would be the LDE. Still need edge help in any scheme .

[armsteeld]

Vaccaro is trash.  Way worse than Mitchell in coverage.  Was used as Nickle LB in New Orleans and was horrible.

[Chieferific]

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

it's only worth talking about the roster has taken more suitable for the 4-3. With Watt being our only OLB known to be a good enough starter, it is a potential weakness if the team stays 3-4.  We have many interior 4-3 DL and Heyward would be the LDE. Still need edge help in any scheme .

I'm still not convinced the roster has become more 4-3 friendly. Who are these 4-3 DLs you speak of? Heyward is a DOMINANT 3-4 DE. I don't see him being nearly as successful as a 4-3 DE. Tuitt has shown he can be an EXCELLENT 3-4 DE. I'm not sure that translates to a 4-3 DT. Watt has been pretty good as a 3-4 OLB. MAYBE he plays as good in a 4-3. Who knows? Hargrave is the only player BETTER suited for the 4-3 IMO. So, one would play better, 2 would play worse (IMO) and one would MAYBE play as well? This doesn't sound like solid logic to make the switch. 

[43M]

23 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Just curious to see the Players whose performance you were most discouraged by with #1 being worst. (with the mindset of potential need for replacement or release)

Here's mine

1. Bud Dupree - his mouth is the thing I hated most ( I dont use the term hate ever really) but absolutely abhorred his behavior and things he said, the Deebo comments made me sick to the stomach the level of disrespect for someone that has done so much by someone who has done so little. His on field play was absurd at times. He was posterized by Fournette, provided 0 pass rush, ZERO, was so often out of position and gave so little at times it was gut wrenching. I dont know how he isnt called out on almost every play in game review. Id be sick if i was the coach that had to grade several of his games.

Yeah, he was garbage, and I completely agree.     Such a letdown.   I was expecting him to breakout this year, but instead, he killed whatever faith I had left in him.   

 

23 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

2. Artie Burns - I was baffled when they took him in the 1st and saw him as a late 3rd prospect at best. One of the big reasons they liked him was ability to make plays on the ball. You can't make too many plays on the ball when you are constantly out of position and getting beat. His fighting antics and late hates, and mouth that drew flags disgust me with the selfishness weekly. Ross Cockrell had a better year.

Hard to disagree with any of this.   

I dont recall many Steeler fans being happy with this.

Then again, outside of Jalen Ramsey, none of the first round CBs from that draft have been too impressive.   

 

23 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

3. Le'veon Bell - Bad seed , this dude is on the same level as Dupree for me, at least he can play somewhat, but his running style is not takeover. He can be replaced, lets get it straight he was out of shape his senior year in college and when he came into the league. He had his makeover, ok. His running style is hardly take over and hasn't been shown to be relied upon when closing out games. I'd move on easily from that salary and his negative behavior. Steelers played the financials appropriately and extended their olive branch last year, but he was too much/too good for it. Ok so the worst that can happen is he goes to the Patriots. The Patriots are going to pay him the money he is commanding? and deal with his distractions...its hard to imagine that coming together when they have 4 running backs that can catch, run & block when needed for less than what Bell got this year.,

Im not so much disappointed with his play as I am with him in general.

I cant see him going to the Pats.   They dont pay FAs like him.     I see Bell signing with a team like the Colts, 49ers or even the Browns.

23 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

4. Mike Mitchell - This guy shows up late to the party all the time, always has. He'd be good if he played in the 70s trying to make big hits long after the ball is in the receivers hands. He was lucky to even get into that position even part of the time where he could make contact as they are usually running away from him. His timed speed disappeared not long after he left the combine. They needed a stop gap when Clark left, this shouldve never been a long term solution. 

Not a disappointment at all.

That would imply I was hopeful he would be good.   I wasnt.   Thought he was garbage coming into the season, and in that regard....he DIDNT disappoint.  

If anything, Id put Sean Davis here.

 

23 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

5. Coty Sensabaugh - too easy, thank God Joe Haden fell into our laps.

Again, never thought highly of him.

I like your list, but mine would be...

1.  Dupree
2.  Burns
3.  Gilbert
4.  Tuitt
5.  Davis (would be higher, but didnt have much faith in him, either)

23 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

I've long defended Tomlin but the behaviors by 1 thru 3 really make me question the leadership/its authority and level of respect for it.

Sorry, but I never like this line of thinking.     

There are a locker room full of guys who fall in line, but because Bell is a diva and Dupree is just an idiot....thats on Tomlin?  At what point is Tomlin not responsible for how grown men act?     Is he also responsible for all the other times Bell acted like an idiot?   is he responsible for Ben's past transgressions?    Not really trying to be a smartass, but Im just trying to figure out when these guys are responsible for their own actions as grown ups and Tomlin isnt viewed as a life coach.

Quote

To get some of it back, Id take a long hard look at Dupree and do my best to ship him out one way or another. Id put Burns on notice and possibly draft 1st round competition/ temporary replacement for him until he matures/improves. Bell would be gone , C'est la vie. Hell you can get Carlos Hyde and a draft pick for about half of what Bells asking. Gotta be stern and send a message that it wont be tolerated otherwise look for more of the same BS and worse next year. Its about the team and those that are focused on winning first.  

I can agree with all of this.  

[JLambert58]

23 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Yeah, this was more about my extremely high expectations of Tuitt. If you told me prior to the year that one of our DE's would have 12 sacks, I would be sure its Tuitt.

I'm sure the injury played a major part in his play and in the defense in general.   If he's getting back surgery, that speaks to the struggles he dealt with throughout the season.