Dr LBC Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 19 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said: I dont really care about the law of the state, that will play itself out. Im talking about what people are sayng Bama should do vs what the kid really did. No where have I said he shouldnt be punished, just tht a suspension isnt warranted. And again, I hope Saban and other higher ups are able to look at context instead of just "welp, you got the dui". And just to be clear, you do see difference correct. Cause you havent actually answered that. I see the context as far less consequential than you do. For me it's less, "welp, you got a DUI," and more, "you broke the freaking law." And the later isn't really excusable unless there was a life on the line and there was no other option available to him to keep the life from being at risk. Out of curiosity if it's not a suspension, what exactly do you propose is a punishment that's actually going to get through to the kid? NCAA rules don't allow them to force him to do community service or fine him the way the pros would. Making him run extra stands or carry pads is a weak as hell punishment, makes a mockery of the fact that the guy broke the law, and (my opinion, but I've worked firsthand with enough kids and athletes his age to have an informed opinion) isn't very likely to make him think twice or more carefully the next time before putting himself in a similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 12 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: l think this is a far more convincing argument than the one @The LBC is making with the legal definition of when you're "operating" a vehicle. To be fair, the argument I was presenting mine against had never specified that the keys were in the ignition, rather that he'd openly decided to just climb in and sleep it off. Reality is, even if you sleep it off and then wake up hungover and drive, you can still be over the legal limit (when you're hungover that's because there's still alcohol in your system that's massively dehydrated you). I've lost family to drunk drivers and I've worked in the bar industry in the past and seen about every type of weird freaking DUI arrest you can imagine. And honestly, I think people that take a laissez-faire attitude towards it either because they do it themselves or they don't want to be hassled are contributing to the problem - a problem that results in over 10k deaths per year in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 10 hours ago, The LBC said: I see the context as far less consequential than you do. For me it's less, "welp, you got a DUI," and more, "you broke the freaking law." And the later isn't really excusable unless there was a life on the line and there was no other option available to him to keep the life from being at risk. Out of curiosity if it's not a suspension, what exactly do you propose is a punishment that's actually going to get through to the kid? NCAA rules don't allow them to force him to do community service or fine him the way the pros would. Making him run extra stands or carry pads is a weak as hell punishment, makes a mockery of the fact that the guy broke the law, and (my opinion, but I've worked firsthand with enough kids and athletes his age to have an informed opinion) isn't very likely to make him think twice or more carefully the next time before putting himself in a similar situation. I dont pretend to know what will get through to him and neither should you, so lets just get that out of the way. Every person is different, so what is enough in your eyes? 2000 kids, 5000? And its almost not worth debating someone who feels context is important, sorry this just isnt the same as driving down the highway, or any street, drunk. youre so wrapped in he "broke the law", if this story came out and the law in Alabama was slightly different and this was "allowed", would you feel the same way. I would really hope so, because what he did didnt change, just the law would have. And if you did feel the same way, why are you so wrapped up in the breaking the law portion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: sorry this just isnt the same as driving down the highway, or any street, drunk. do you actually not realize that he literally could have done this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 58 minutes ago, catcheryea said: do you actually not realize that he literally could have done this? A lot of people could have done a lot of things. Its not all that likely that he was so drunk that he passsed out in his car but was lucid enough to park said car in a parking lot of all places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 do you know how drunk a 6'4" 290 pound person has to be to be above .08? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, catcheryea said: do you know how drunk a 6'4" 290 pound person has to be to be above .08? Hand at .08 would be exactly as impaired as someone who is 5'9", 170 at .08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponX Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 15 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Hand at .08 would be exactly as impaired as someone who is 5'9", 170 at .08. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponX Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 To be honest, a lot of you arguing for a suspension for Hand sound a lot like people arguing for mandatory minimum sentences for minor criminal violations. Sentencing with no context at all just based upon the crime committed to the letter of the law. Something that a good portion of people in Alabama support but not something I expected people from other many parts of the country to support. Maybe for them it's just this case because it's college football and it's sport and it's the other team. Then again, people are treating policy like it's a sport and as though people are on teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 29 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Hand at .08 would be exactly as impaired as someone who is 5'9", 170 at .08. u right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, RollEagles said: To be honest, a lot of you arguing for a suspension for Hand sound a lot like people arguing for mandatory minimum sentences for minor criminal violations. Sentencing with no context at all just based upon the crime committed to the letter of the law. Can we agree that a dui is worse than possession of weed? Like substantially worse? Can we agree that at some point he intended to drive while drunk, regardless of whether or not he actually did? Can we agree that driving drunk puts lives at risk? Not just other people, but his? Those all seem fairly reasonable to me. Assuming we can agree to all of them, your post makes no sense. He intended to do something bad. Not just bad, but dangerous. I have already said I don't think he should be punished criminally, but if part of college is maturing and learning to not make mistakes like this, then Saban should act in a way that lets Hand know that what he did was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponX Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 DUI is definitely worse than possession of weed. And substantially worse. I won't say that for certain he intended to drive while drunk. I can say from one specific personal experience when I went home to visit parents who live in the suburbs. I drove out to a bar to meet friends from high school. I have lived in a city since freshman year of college. I don't exactly have a ton of experience with having to drive to go out at night. At the end of the night, I walked out to my car and I was thinking about whether or not I should drive. I wasn't exactly sure so I just wanted to sit for a few minutes in my car and after about half an hour of just sitting there and listening to a podcast in my car, I just ended up calling an Uber. Luckily for me, I was probably no where near the limit and I also didn't have a police officer come knocking on my window. We can agree that driving drunk puts lives at risks. His own and the lives of others. Can we agree that actually driving and getting booked for a DUI is worse than sitting in your car and sleeping and getting booked for DUI? Can we agree that Hand wasn't driving drunk? Can we agree that despite your insistence that he "intended to drive while drunk", we don't know that to be the case for sure and that context is important? Can we agree that by simply sitting in his car, there was no intent to do anything bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, RollEagles said: Can we agree that despite your insistence that he "intended to drive while drunk", we don't know that to be the case for sure and that context is important? Can we agree that by simply sitting in his car, there was no intent to do anything bad? have you ever gotten into your car and put the keys in the ignition without intending to drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponX Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, catcheryea said: have you ever gotten into your car and put the keys in the ignition without intending to drive? See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils1854 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, catcheryea said: have you ever gotten into your car and put the keys in the ignition without intending to drive? I have actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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