buno67 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, CBrownsman said: I think that would be a great move too. I remember last year going into the draft hoping for one of Jonathan Allen, Malik Hooker or OJ Howard being available at 12, thinking it was unlikely. All 3 of them fell to 12. I am never shocked with what happens in drafts. I could see Ward falling. Last year I thought Lattimore was the best CB, he fell to 11. 2 years ago I thought it was Hargraves, he fell to 11. 2015, Tre Wayens? 11. Theres always a chance See the guys you were surprised fell, werent all that much of a surprise because they all had injury concerns. Lattimore and his hamstrings, Hooker and his shoulder/hernia, Allen and his shoulders. OJ Howard doesn’t play a premium position. So it’s not too shocking. You look at Ward. He plays a top5 position of need and in all reports is healthy with no medical concerns. If he falls out of the top10, there might be something up with him that isn’t public. Either it’s health, behavioral, or legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, buno67 said: See the guys you were surprised fell, werent all that much of a surprise because they all had injury concerns. Lattimore and his hamstrings, Hooker and his shoulder/hernia, Allen and his shoulders. OJ Howard doesn’t play a premium position. So it’s not too shocking. You look at Ward. He plays a top5 position of need and in all reports is healthy with no medical concerns. If he falls out of the top10, there might be something up with him that isn’t public. Either it’s health, behavioral, or legal He plays a top 5 position but I'm not entirely sure hes everyone's first choice at that position. A lot like Ramsey with JAX they could look towards Minka first as the boundary CB. Some people might light the length and size of Josh Jackson first. I've heard a lot of people on here saying they like Hughes more than anyone at CB. I could see Ward going top 10, but I also see him falling just based on team preferences... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 If Denzel Ward falls out of the Top 10, it's because he's only 5'10. If he was 6'0, he'd be talked about as a "Blue Chip" top 5 pick in the draft. Joe Haden is only 3/4 of an inch taller and was a MUCH worse athlete coming out and was still the 7th pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: He plays a top 5 position but I'm not entirely sure hes everyone's first choice at that position. A lot like Ramsey with JAX they could look towards Minka first as the boundary CB. Some people might light the length and size of Josh Jackson first. I've heard a lot of people on here saying they like Hughes more than anyone at CB. I could see Ward going top 10, but I also see him falling just based on team preferences... Minkah is not a boundary corner. Why draft a guy to be an outside corner when he barely played the position in college. Why would you even take that risk. Idk I heard Ward and Jackson were tied for 1A and 1B by a lot of people but once the combine finished and teams got offical sizes and got to truly see the athletic ability and speed to go along with the game tape that Ward was labeled as DB1 and I agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, buno67 said: Minkah is not a boundary corner. Why draft a guy to be an outside corner when he barely played the position in college. Why would you even take that risk. Idk I heard Ward and Jackson were tied for 1A and 1B by a lot of people but once the combine finished and teams got offical sizes and got to truly see the athletic ability and speed to go along with the game tape that Ward was labeled as DB1 and I agree with it. Honestly I want Ward more than any other CB and I would love to trade down a few spots and take him. That being said I'm just playing devils advocate, not even saying he WILL fall out of the top 10, I'm just saying I've seen things that are much dumber happen, it wouldn't shock me. My DREAM is trade 4 for 12 and 22 and next years first and take Ward at 12...Not saying its probably...just in a perfect world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 #1-Sam Darnold/QB/USC #4-Saquon Barkley/RB/Penn State (Trade #33, #35, 5th, N.E. '19 3rd for #13) #13-Derwin James/FS/Florida State 2nd-DJ Chark/WR/LSU 4th-Skai Moore/WLB/South Carolina 5th-Holton Hill/CB/Texas 6th-Matthew Thomas/MLB/Florida State 6th-Dimitri Flowers/FB/Oklahoma UDFA-Josh Frazier/DT/Alabama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 You had me after the first 3 picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 hours ago, CBrownsman said: I think that would be a great move too. I remember last year going into the draft hoping for one of Jonathan Allen, Malik Hooker or OJ Howard being available at 12, thinking it was unlikely. All 3 of them fell to 12. I am never shocked with what happens in drafts. I could see Ward falling. Last year I thought Lattimore was the best CB, he fell to 11. 2 years ago I thought it was Hargraves, he fell to 11. 2015, Tre Wayens? 11. Theres always a chance So you're saying we should trade 15 and 79 to move up to 11. Got it. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: So you're saying we should trade 15 and 79 to move up to 11. Got it. ?? Exactly, that's where ward is destine to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: Exactly, that's where ward is destine to go... That seems like a reasonable value in a trade up and in where the prospect is expected to be a solid value grab. That would give us our #1 quarterback with our first pick, and then pick #4 will have been turned into Denzel Ward, pick #47 and a 2019 1st. I could deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I can't do it man...I can't go back and forth like this with the thought of Allen or Mayfield going 1 instead of Darnold or Rosen...the thought of Allen over Darnold makes my stomach hurt. So, I'm doing what I do every year around this time....I'm out until the days/week before the draft. Wish you all well until then....Keep the Darnold faith....keep your sanity....we're so close to finally doing it...I can't believe it...PLEASE DON'T Screw this up.... Sending all the positive vibes of Darnold our way. I've watched all the tape on the prospects I'm going to watch. I've finalized my big board in the signature. I know who I want and who I hate as prospects in this draft. -------------------------------- Here's my final final big board....it will go unchanged except in the instance that something crazy happens with character concerns. 4 hours ago, Mind Character said: This is my best case scenario final target board based on the idea of trading both picks at the top of the 2nd for 1st round picks. 1. Number 1 Overall. 1st Pick: Sam Darnold, QB USC 2. 2nd Pick (2nd, 1st Rounder): Bradley Chubb, DE NCSTATE 3. 3rd Pick (3rd, 1st Rounder) Mike Hughes, CB UCF 4. 4th Pick (4th, 1st Rounder) a. Da'Ron Payne, DT Alabama // b. Mike McGlinchey, LT Notre Dame // c. DJ Moore, WR Maryland // d. Taven Bryan, DT Florida // e. Jaire Alexander, CB Louisville // f. Carlton Davis, CB Auburn (if our staff gets beyond his commitment and maturity issues). If we, walk away from the draft with Darnold, Chubb, Hughes, and 1 of (Payne, McGlinchey, Moore, Bryan, or Alexander). We really need Mike Hughes' 4.53, 40 yard dash, and diminutive size to scare some teams off so he can fall in round 1. It's a real possibility. It'll be the best draft ever... 3 hours ago, Mind Character said: Based on Trade Back into the First Targets -- The Mock Draft **** Philosophy: Create as many positional units that can be a decisive force on the field. 1(1) Browns Select: Sam Darnold QB USC 1(2) New York Giants select Josh Allen QB Wyoming 1(3) New York Jets (via Trade) select Josh Rosen QB UCLA 1(4) Browns Select: Bradley Chubb DE NC State ***Trade**** Trade our Eagles' 2nd Round pick number 65 overall to move up 11 spots to go from 33 to 22 in the 1st round. We receive a 2018 5th round pick, 6th round pick, and the 22nd overall pick for the 33rd and the 65th overall pick in the second round. We go up and get the best CB in the draft. It costs us a pretty penny, but it's well worth it. **1(22) Browns Select: Mike Hughes CB UCF ***Trade**** We give up our 4th round pick and future considerations to secure a 4th, 1st round pick. We traded a 4th round pick to trade up from the 2nd to the 1st last year to select David Njoku. So, we essentially do that trade again this year. **1(27) Browns Select: Da'Ron Payne DT Alabama // Mike McGlinchey LT Notre Dame // DJ Moore WR Maryland // Taven Bryan DT Florida // Carlton Davis CB Auburn (if our staff gets beyond his commitment and maturity issues) 5. Browns Select: Dane Cruikshank FS Arizona 5.***via Trade-- Browns Select: Ade Aruna DE Tulane // Mark Walton RB Miami (Ankle and knee injury concerns drop him in the draft along with RB talent pool depth) 6. Browns Select: Hunter Renfrow WR Clemson 7. Browns Select: BPA ---------------------------- ------------------------ On 3/21/2018 at 11:28 PM, Mind Character said: I may have been the first on here many many months ago to mention that I see us doing 2 David Njoku style draft day trades to move from the top of the 2nd round to the bottom of the 1st round. It cost us a 4th Round pick to do so then. As we only have the 1, 4th round pick now after the Jarvis Landry trade, we'd have to give up some future draft compensation as well most likely. With that said, trading into the 1st not only allows us to target more premium talent, but also provides the opportunity to gain the coveted 5th year option on a rookie contract thus extending the control window over a player. For me, while some are likelier to be available at the end of the 1st (I give the scenario on why it's plausible) the following players are the most likely candidates for us in trades back in to the 1st round: 1. Da'Ron Payne, DT Alabama (High Likelihood): DTs with limited pass rushing production, but with athleticism based upside often fall towards the end of the 1st. Given what I expect to be a later round push on QBs like Mason Rudolph and Lamar Jackson, premium talent will be pushed down the board. There's question on whether Payne can truly be a a 3 down player instead of just a run stopper. In the end, I think John Dorsey believes in his athletic traits and hopes to slide him in as a force next to Ogunjobi. While Payne could go anywhere from 24th on...I think he becomes our target in a trade up to the 27th pick or so. 2, Taven Bryan, DT Florida (High Likelihood): Just like Payne, Bryan has question marks in terms of whether he can be a 3 down impact starter. Right now, he is a slippery and tremendous hand technician that explodes off the ball to disrupt the pass. Unfortunately, he is too undisciplined, wild off the ball, lacks playing strength, and aggression to be seriously impact the run game. He's the opposite of Payne for comparison's sake. However, with such natural up the field rush ability, our staff may feel like he can add weight and be coached to be a run stopper. The fit next to Ogunjobi isn't ideal, but Bryan's talent is too much to pass up. He'll go somewhere in the 25th to 30th range probably. 3. DJ Moore, WR Maryland (High Likelihood): While he's my clear WR1, this WR class is thought to have about 4 WRs with similar grades that are well below that of talents at other key positions. It's hard to say who teams have as their WR1, but the explosiveness, route running, and ability to attack the ball in the air make Moore a great target at the end of round 1. Most seem to think he could go as high as the early 20s, but given the how many teams filled their WR needs in free agency, the run on QBs, the similar grades on WRs, and the poor positive impact history of 1st Round WRs in recent years (Laquon Treadwell, Corey Coleman, Josh Doctson, John Ross, etc) WRs will likely be available at the end of round 1. 4. Courtland Sutton, WR SMU (High Likelihood): There are question marks regarding the reliability, hands, and route running of Sutton. We may in fact believe in his ability enough to take him at the end of round 1. A lot of scouting rooms are divided on whether he can truly be a WR1. You don't take WR2s in the 1st round as you can get them later. Given the how many teams filled their WR needs in free agency, the run on QBs, the similar grades on WRs, and the poor positive impact history of 1st Round WRs in recent years (Laquon Treadwell, Corey Coleman, Josh Doctson, John Ross, etc) WRs will likely be available at the end of round 1. 5. Mike Hughes, CB UCF (Uncertain- Could Go Either Way): He's my number 1 CB in the draft, and I'd be okay with us using a top 10 pick on him, but he has the stigma of being undersized (5'10'', 189 pounds, and not top end fast (he ran a 4.53, 40 yard dash at the combine). He may be typecast into a slot CB role, seen as not durable due to his size given the aggressive style of his play, or he may be seen as a CB2. With other talented CBs available and the QBs pushing talent down the board, he may be the shocker available toward the end of the 1st round. If he is, I'd celebrate if we could get him later in the 1st. Even with the size and speed limitations, his game tape might make a team fall in love with him in the 15th to 25th pick range; however, if he falls out of that range we have to go get him. 6. Roquan Smith, LB Georgia (Low Likelihood): When there are multiple LB1, 1st round prospects available in a given draft (Tremaine Edmunds LB Va Tech, Rashaan Evans, LB Alabama, Leighton Vander Esch LB Boise State, Lorenzo Carter LB Georgia), someone always gets the short end of the stick. While Roquan Smith is thought to be a great player, he is undersized and less "body beautiful" relative to the physical and athletic freak multiple LB1 prospects in the draft. Will another team choose the bigger, stronger, faster, longer, athletes when their impacts are similar? Even more, LB is not a premium position teams like to spend 1st round picks on given the ability to find competent and impact LBs much later in the draft. So, if in reality 3 teams are willing to go LB in Round 1, Edmunds, Vander Esch, and Evans may be higher on those teams boards. If so, although not a need position for us with Kirksey, Collins, and Schobert, Roquan is a premium player with rare abilities and next level leadership that would be an upgrade over an already solid Joe Schobert. Would we pass on such a player if they're available? 7. Mike McGlinchey, OT Notre Dame (Low Likelihood): No one has a clue where the OTs are going to go in this draft. Some say some will go top 15, some say later in the 1st, while others say none will go in the 1st round. Literally, the only LT prospect I believe in is McGlinchey. The rest aren't worth the 2nd or 1st round pick we'd spend on them. If he falls to the end of the 1st, he's a target I'd see us trading up for. At worst, he and Hubbard fight it out for the RT spot...at best, he becomes our new LT of the future and we move Coleman back to RT with Hubbard serving as the first one off the bench swing player for injury and depth purposes. ------------------------------ For the love of all good things, please no Orlando Brown foolery....even before the combine I told people how trash he was when watching his games this year and last. He has no feet, plays with terrible leverage, his contact balance is bad, his eyes on the blitz are bad, has no anchor, and was covered up amazingly by Oklahoma's quick passing game. He would've given up tons of sacks if he was in a different offense. His size and length is an impressive strength and trait that helped him do well in the Big12 against subpar pash rushers. In the NFL, he's going to be terribly exposed. We released Zach Banner the LT from USC who had similar issues to Brown, but was a better pass blocker and athlete. Brown is the Davis Webb of this draft to me...the pick I'd be the most disgusted by. If you like Orlando as a LT, please go watch more than 5 games of his and do so asking yourself if Baker holds the pass a second longer what happens...pay close attention to what happens on long pass sets. ----------------------------------------------- Here's my final final general big board Final (3/21/18) - Targeted Big Board of Prospects to Select with our 1st + 2nd Round Picks Ranked by My Belief in their Browns Impact: 1. Sam Darnold, QB USC - (Top of 1st ), 2. Josh Rosen, QB UCLA - (Top of 1st ), 3. Mike Hughes, CB UCF - (28th-70th Pick ), 4. Bradley Chubb, DE NC State - (Top 6 Pick ), 5. Saquon Barkley, RB Penn State - (Top 6 Pick ), 6. Roquan Smith, LB Georgia - (10th-28th Pick), 7. DJ Moore, WR Maryland - (22nd-50th Pick), 8. Denzel Ward, CB Ohio State - (7th-38th Pick ), 9. Minkah Fitzpatrick, NCB/SS Alabama - (Top 10 Pick), 10. Mike McGlinchey, LT Notre Dame - (12th-45th Pick ), 11. Baker Mayfield, QB Oklahoma - (1st-20th Pick), 12. Derrius Guice, RB LSU - (20th-75th Pick), 13. Courtland Sutton, WR SMU - (22nd-35th Pick), 14. Dane Cruikshank, FS Arizona - (58th-150th Pick) 15a. Jaire Alexander, CB Louisville - (40th-95th Pick), 15a. Da'Ron Payne, DT Alabama - (18th-50th Pick), 16a. Taven Bryan, DT Florida - (24th-55th Pick), 16b.Tremaine Edmunds, LB Va.Tech - (12th-42nd Pick ), 17. Derwin James, SS/LB FSU - (6th-42nd Pick), 18. Carlton Davis, CB Auburn - (10th-28th Pick), 19. Darious Williams, CB UAB - (58th-70th Pick), 20. Marcus Davenport, DE UTSA - (10th-42nd Pick), 21. Joshua Jackson, CB Iowa - (7th-24th Pick ), 22. Billy Price C OSU - (100th-120th Pick), 23. Calvin Ridley, WR Alabama - (15th-35th Pick), 24. Hayden Hurt, TE South Carolina - (17th-70th Pick), 25. James Washington, WR Oklahoma State - (40th-95th Pick), 26. Ronald Jones, RB USC - (24th-64th Pick), 27. Mark Walton, RB Miami- (45th-100th Pick), 28. Mark Andrews, TE Oklahoma - (35th-80th Pick), 29. Dallas Goedert, TE South Dakota State - (35th-80th Pick), 30. Mike Gesiki, TE Penn State - (35th-55th Pick), 31. Duke Dawson, CB Florida - (60th-80th Pick), 32. Sony Michel, RB Georgia - (45th-90th Pick), 33. Ade Aruna, DE Tulane - (85th-120th Pick) ----------------- See you all at the end of the crazy season.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I'm at maximum capacity for silly season.......shutting it down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Mind Character said: I'm at maximum capacity for silly season.......shutting it down... Can't say as I blame ya. Rest well. See ya back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 What do y'all see as/consider strong positions/positional groups in this draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, bruceb said: What do y'all see as/consider strong positions/positional groups in this draft? CB (at the top, thins out after the 2nd round group) Interior OL Franchise QBs RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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