The Josh Rosen Hype / Rumor Train to Buffalo

[BillsGuy82]

5 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Not even close!

The Browns will take Darnold, the Giants will then either take Rosen or trade the pick to Denver or the Jets, who will in turn draft Rosen. Then the Colts will take Allen or trade the pick to the Jets, who will take Allen and the Browns will either take Barkley or trade back a bit for extra assets, but Barkley is the likely pick.

It looks like Cousins has signed with Minny, so that leaves Mayfield as likely going to Arizona in a trade up, leaving us to trade up a bit for Jackson or Rudolph.

Sorry, but this is the likely scenario for the draft. We would have to pay 3 first rounders and a second and a third to even be in the conversation for Rosen or Allen and I just do not see us paying hat kind of price???

This is reality!!!

NFL network saying Browns are going Barkley 1.1 and Browns love Baker Mayfield unless you have some superior sources I'll tend to follow NFL network

People sleeping on Baker Mayfield, him and Josh Allen were only 2 to bump there draft stock in a tight arms race 

[BillsGuy82]

If I'm Cleveland I'm all over Mayfield at 4

[Trentwannabe]

14 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Then the Colts will take Allen or trade the pick to the Jets,

What? The Colts are not taking a QB.

[soflbillsfan]

I could see the browns taking Barkley at 1 if they feel that no qb has stood out to them. You have 1 elite Rb in this draft and 4 mediocre prospects at QB that havent proved to be the instant franchise qb in the draft. Couple if not all 4 could be franchise qbs or could be busts but Barkley seems like one of the 3 top prospects in the draft is a sure fire talented player (Chubb DE and Minka). By going Barkley they can still end up with one of the 4 players. 

Giants have said they aren't looking at drafting a qb and would be willing to move for the right price or stay pat and draft BPA, which puts pressure on Browns to take barkley and both giants and colts are in need of a RB and they both would pounce on the opportunity to take barkley. If Barkley goes 1 then the giants can chose to go Chubb or trade. If they do trade then one qb is taken off the board. Colts have several needs and could trade or can take a huge need which is pass rusher and Chubb can be the answer. Which puts the browns in position to land one of the 3 QBs left. With Giants being in the mode to win now with Eli then trading to bills if they want to move up (which I do not see as possibility at this time as Beane is anti giving up picks) the X factor on the trade could be Cordy Glenn as he would be the instant starting LT for them at a reasonable price this year. 

[Iamcanadian]

13 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said:

NFL network saying Browns are going Barkley 1.1 and Browns love Baker Mayfield unless you have some superior sources I'll tend to follow NFL network

People sleeping on Baker Mayfield, him and Josh Allen were only 2 to bump there draft stock in a tight arms race 

First, the Cleveland owner will never permit his team to pass on a QB at #1 overall, he would be looking at a half empty stadium and Millions of dollars in lost revenue. As for Mayfield, anybody who believes anything coming from a FO prior to the draft, simply does not understand the draft process, where lying is a top priority to set up other possible scenarios. 

Second, the Browns would trade with the Giants or even the Colts if they want Barkley for even more high picks as long as they can get either Darnold or Rosen, so they put out the rumor they want Barkley to scare the Giants or the Colts into making a trade. They give the impression, they would be very happy with Mayfield opening up the possibility of getting some team to offer a ton for the #4 pick. This is drafting 101.

NFL.com has just come out post Combine, with their newest top 50 and their newest mock and in their top 50 according to Jeremiah, their top scout, Mayfield is ranked #13 behind Darnold, Rosen and Allen and is mocked to go  #16 to the Ravens. So do not tell me that the Browns are going to take him at #4. As for Barkley, a great prospect, but a RB has not got #1 overall since sometime in the 80's I believe, so if you chose to believe that rumor, good luck, but I think you are a little inexperienced as a draftnik, a hobby I have followed since the 50's and am pretty good at it. 

[Iamcanadian]

3 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

I could see the browns taking Barkley at 1 if they feel that no qb has stood out to them. You have 1 elite Rb in this draft and 4 mediocre prospects at QB that havent proved to be the instant franchise qb in the draft. Couple if not all 4 could be franchise qbs or could be busts but Barkley seems like one of the 3 top prospects in the draft is a sure fire talented player (Chubb DE and Minka). By going Barkley they can still end up with one of the 4 players. 

Giants have said they aren't looking at drafting a qb and would be willing to move for the right price or stay pat and draft BPA, which puts pressure on Browns to take barkley and both giants and colts are in need of a RB and they both would pounce on the opportunity to take barkley. If Barkley goes 1 then the giants can chose to go Chubb or trade. If they do trade then one qb is taken off the board. Colts have several needs and could trade or can take a huge need which is pass rusher and Chubb can be the answer. Which puts the browns in position to land one of the 3 QBs left. With Giants being in the mode to win now with Eli then trading to bills if they want to move up (which I do not see as possibility at this time as Beane is anti giving up picks) the X factor on the trade could be Cordy Glenn as he would be the instant starting LT for them at a reasonable price this year. 

The Browns are not passing on a QB, they passed on Wentz, Watson and Mahomes and if they pass on another QB, their fan base would be in open rebellion against the team after their 1-31 record over the last 2 seasons. The owner would be lucky to sell a third of his season tickets and likely loose about 200 million dollars in revenue.

They are going to draft a QB and it will be Darnold or Allen depending on what Allen shows at his pro day, after 2 months of training under a pro type QB coach, to see if he has improved significantly enough to pass Darnold. They will not touch Rosen because of his 2 concussions and other injuries. The 4 or 5 QB's are not mediocre in any sense, they are all very solid prospects who have the scouts and GM's licking their lips in expectation.

Barkley is a great prospect, but Hunt and Kamara came out of round 3 last draft and it will not upset the Browns one bit to lose out on him, in fact they may well trade out of the #4 pick even if he is still there, if the price is right. This is another strong RB crop with numerous options for them at that position latter in the draft or they just might take him at #4 if he is still available.

There is absolutely no pressure on the Browns except to draft the right possible franchise QB, all the rest is garbage in people's minds. The Browns will take a QB at #1 and let the rest of the teams worry about how to proceed and pick up the pieces of any mistakes they make!!!

[Iamcanadian]

4 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

What? The Colts are not taking a QB.

The Colts Doctors will be deciding who the Colts draft, if they give a thumbs down on Luck's health, the Colts will draft a QB, if it is thumbs up, the Colts will trade the pick either to Denver or the Jets and draft a position player.

[soflbillsfan]

58 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

The Browns are not passing on a QB, they passed on Wentz, Watson and Mahomes and if they pass on another QB, their fan base would be in open rebellion against the team after their 1-31 record over the last 2 seasons. The owner would be lucky to sell a third of his season tickets and likely loose about 200 million dollars in revenue.

They are going to draft a QB and it will be Darnold or Allen depending on what Allen shows at his pro day, after 2 months of training under a pro type QB coach, to see if he has improved significantly enough to pass Darnold. They will not touch Rosen because of his 2 concussions and other injuries. The 4 or 5 QB's are not mediocre in any sense, they are all very solid prospects who have the scouts and GM's licking their lips in expectation.

Barkley is a great prospect, but Hunt and Kamara came out of round 3 last draft and it will not upset the Browns one bit to lose out on him, in fact they may well trade out of the #4 pick even if he is still there, if the price is right. This is another strong RB crop with numerous options for them at that position latter in the draft or they just might take him at #4 if he is still available.

There is absolutely no pressure on the Browns except to draft the right possible franchise QB, all the rest is garbage in people's minds. The Browns will take a QB at #1 and let the rest of the teams worry about how to proceed and pick up the pieces of any mistakes they make!!!

Trading those picks in the past to collect more are different then passing on someone. Saying they are going to pick barkley to have giants or colts trade up is nonsense. If the browns were sold on barkley they would take him if they were willing to move with giants or colts then those teams know they wouldnt want barkley so why would the giants make the move to one to get him? If the colts really wanted barkley and were worried that the giants would get him then the trade to 1 would make sense but not because of rumors about browns liking him. Darnold or allen could easily be there come pick 4 when the browns select again. Only a few qbs have come out to prove themselves at the next level when I say they are mediocre i am saying not one of those guys have established themselves as the clear cut #1 in the draft they all have some form of issue. Darnold coming from USC who is historically overrated qbs in the past, with a questionable arm throw movement and consistent turnover issue in college. Rosen has a health issue and immaturity claims for him in college as some coaches and players do not think he is a team player. Allen has accuracy issues and played in a small school. Mayfield is smaller then the prototypical Qb in the NFL and immaturity issues. Barkley is an overall beast and the #1 prospect on almost every public figures board. Being able to land the BPA plus land darnold or allen at 4 which is more likely then landing darnold and allen at 1 with barkley at 4. I think more fans would be put in the seats with a RB who is said to be better then fournette elliott shady and bell to come out of college would get fans interested then to add in a promising rookie qb. Both Giants and Colts will need to trade out of their spots in order for browns to possibly miss out on Allen and Darnold but a solid consolation prize of Mayfield or Rosen. 

Colts are going to do one of two things they are going to commit to luck and draft Chubb/minka/barkley (if there)/nelson or draft a qb and trade luck to a team like the bills. No way they pay Luck his contract and then also draft a qb high for either to sit behind. I still think Luck is there guy for a couple more years as they are invested in him. Spending a high pick on someone to play 1 year if luck needs time to heal is a disastrous move for a new gm. Even with luck the Colts are in a rebuild process they have several needs on both sides of the ball and Chubb is a pass rusher who can be a game changer on defense and pass rusher is thin in both FA and draft.

 As for giants it is more unknown they could go qb or could take BPA or trade back. Either way the smartest move for browns if they are truly interested in barkley is to take him #1 and then follow through with their QB at 4. Both Colts and Giants are desperate for runningback so if browns pass on him they will not get a shot at 4. Hunt and Kamara may be the odd exception just like russel wilson and tom brady at qb doesnt mean you will automatically find a stud rb in those rounds every year because I can name 100 RBs that were drafted similar rounds as them that have failed miserably. 

[BillsGuy82]

21 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

First, the Cleveland owner will never permit his team to pass on a QB at #1 overall, he would be looking at a half empty stadium and Millions of dollars in lost revenue. As for Mayfield, anybody who believes anything coming from a FO prior to the draft, simply does not understand the draft process, where lying is a top priority to set up other possible scenarios. 

Second, the Browns would trade with the Giants or even the Colts if they want Barkley for even more high picks as long as they can get either Darnold or Rosen, so they put out the rumor they want Barkley to scare the Giants or the Colts into making a trade. They give the impression, they would be very happy with Mayfield opening up the possibility of getting some team to offer a ton for the #4 pick. This is drafting 101.

NFL.com has just come out post Combine, with their newest top 50 and their newest mock and in their top 50 according to Jeremiah, their top scout, Mayfield is ranked #13 behind Darnold, Rosen and Allen and is mocked to go  #16 to the Ravens. So do not tell me that the Browns are going to take him at #4. As for Barkley, a great prospect, but a RB has not got #1 overall since sometime in the 80's I believe, so if you chose to believe that rumor, good luck, but I think you are a little inexperienced as a draftnik, a hobby I have followed since the 50's and am pretty good at it. 

Lol what ? You drunk posting ?

Your logic in this thread is absurd. Colts are not taking a QB, Browns fans are not dumb and won't boycott the team because they selected probably the most coveted RB to come out in years over a arm they'll probably still get at 4 and NFL.com rankings are irrelevant when draft day comes 

[Trentwannabe]

Rumours are circulating again that the Bills are trying to get into the top 10.I think the Bills want to do something similar to what Philly did when they made two trades to get up to pick 2 for Wentz.

Here is a scenario I created to show how realistic it is.

Bills trade pick 21 and 22 (1580 points) to Tampa Bay for pick 7 and 108 (1578)

Bills trade pick 7, 53 2019 1st (2670) to NYG for pick 2 (2600).

Bucs get two first round picks and only gave up a 4th to do so. They can add to blue chip players.

NYG move down only 5 spots and pick up another 2nd and a future first in the process.

Bills end up with:
Round 1 pick 2
Round 2 pick 56
Round 3 pick 96
Round 4 pick 108
Round 4 pick 121
Round 5 pick 158
Round 5 pick 166

In 2019 they would not have a first round pick, but they currently have a 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, a 5th, a 6th and a 7th and will likely get at least one, probably 2 compensatory picks. 

Thoughts?

[soflbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

Rumours are circulating again that the Bills are trying to get into the top 10.I think the Bills want to do something similar to what Philly did when they made two trades to get up to pick 2 for Wentz.

Here is a scenario I created to show how realistic it is.

Bills trade pick 21 and 22 (1580 points) to Tampa Bay for pick 7 and 108 (1578)

Bills trade pick 7, 53 2019 1st (2670) to NYG for pick 2 (2600).

Bucs get two first round picks and only gave up a 4th to do so. They can add to blue chip players.

NYG move down only 5 spots and pick up another 2nd and a future first in the process.

Bills end up with:
Round 1 pick 2
Round 2 pick 56
Round 3 pick 96
Round 4 pick 108
Round 4 pick 121
Round 5 pick 158
Round 5 pick 166

In 2019 they would not have a first round pick, but they currently have a 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, a 5th, a 6th and a 7th and will likely get at least one, probably 2 compensatory picks. 

Thoughts?

That scenario is way to much to give up to move forward imo. If bills were to move up pick 21 or 22 this year, 2nd rd pick this year and next years 1st would get it done and that is directly with the Giants. Possibly some late round swaps but nothing to crazy. Giving up 3 first rd picks, and a 2nd rd pick would kill this franchise even if the qb they land is a rockstar. I dont know if the eagles intent to move up from 13 to 8 was a push to go after wentz until it was closer to the draft when they realized that wentz was the guy for them. As both trades happened 6-7 weeks apart. Plus players were involved to get to 8 not picks. Im all for finding a team who needs cordy glenn trade him and pick 22 to move up to said pick and then go from there to get to pick 2 but please god do not give up both 21 and 22 just to move up to 7 then turn around and give up more to get to 2. 

 

Also out of curiosity who is starting this rumor? Ever since Mcdermott came in to the organization "sources" were shut down and nothing was coming or leaving that organization. No one knew about the trades that went down until they were announced. I think it is all bs right now until the FA market is cleared up on QBs and settles for the draft. For all we know they could be making a big play for a qb that is not in the draft, thats one thing I like about this new regime we as fans and media continue to guess at what will happen cause we do not get any hints as to what they are doing.

[Nick]

15 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

That scenario is way to much to give up to move forward imo. If bills were to move up pick 21 or 22 this year, 2nd rd pick this year and next years 1st would get it done and that is directly with the Giants. Possibly some late round swaps but nothing to crazy. Giving up 3 first rd picks, and a 2nd rd pick would kill this franchise even if the qb they land is a rockstar. I dont know if the eagles intent to move up from 13 to 8 was a push to go after wentz until it was closer to the draft when they realized that wentz was the guy for them. As both trades happened 6-7 weeks apart. Plus players were involved to get to 8 not picks. Im all for finding a team who needs cordy glenn trade him and pick 22 to move up to said pick and then go from there to get to pick 2 but please god do not give up both 21 and 22 just to move up to 7 then turn around and give up more to get to 2. 

 

Also out of curiosity who is starting this rumor? Ever since Mcdermott came in to the organization "sources" were shut down and nothing was coming or leaving that organization. No one knew about the trades that went down until they were announced. I think it is all bs right now until the FA market is cleared up on QBs and settles for the draft. For all we know they could be making a big play for a qb that is not in the draft, thats one thing I like about this new regime we as fans and media continue to guess at what will happen cause we do not get any hints as to what they are doing.

You crack me up man lol. Kill this franchise? C'mon. The Eagles just won the damn Super Bowl by making a very similar move. 

The Sammy Watkins deal didn't kill the franchise and he's not even on the team anymore and we made the freakin playoffs last year. We're talking about trading for a potential franchise QB too. Huge difference. 

Instead of only thinking in terms of what we would like, let's think about what the Giants would like too. That's what this proposal does. It takes into consideration that the Giants might want to stay inside the top 10 to take a guy like Quenton Nelson, who they might really want, just not at pick 2, especially if the offer presents itself to move down just a few spots. 

I'd take that deal. Wouldn't even think twice. And as @Trentwannabe mentioned, we'd have all our picks except our 1st next year, and will likely gain a couple comp picks. And we'd have at least one pick in every key round this year (minus round 6 and 7, but who cares). 

[soflbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, NickChowaniec said:

You crack me up man lol. Kill this franchise? C'mon. The Eagles just won the damn Super Bowl by making a very similar move. 

The Sammy Watkins deal didn't kill the franchise and he's not even on the team anymore and we made the freakin playoffs last year. We're talking about trading for a potential franchise QB too. Huge difference. 

Instead of only thinking in terms of what we would like, let's think about what the Giants would like too. That's what this proposal does. It takes into consideration that the Giants might want to stay inside the top 10 to take a guy like Quenton Nelson, who they might really want, just not at pick 2, especially if the offer presents itself to move down just a few spots. 

I'd take that deal. Wouldn't even think twice. And as @Trentwannabe mentioned, we'd have all our picks except our 1st next year, and will likely gain a couple comp picks. And we'd have at least one pick in every key round this year (minus round 6 and 7, but who cares). 

Yes the sammy watkins trade as well as the ej manuel signing killed the bills franchise. Just because the bills made the playoffs in what was one of the worst situations doesnt mean those trades didnt hurt. The bills missed out on several players because of that move to get watkins. 9-7 counting on a team to lose to make the playoffs only means one thing they were lucky. People act like the bills deserved to make it. As a fan I was happy to see them in postseason but no way did I think that team earned the playoff spot. Any other year they wouldn't have made it. Swinging on Sammy Watkins was a disaster, bad scouting with Ej manuel as they reached for a qb because they needed one and thats what happens. When you draft a qb that early they have to start right away, you cant go to an owner and say we gave up this much for him to sit the bench for a year as we think he may be the future. No one is going to buy that let alone the owner who is paying these people and that player. You develop him and if he doesn't pan out hat means another 3-4 years of having to play guys like Tyrod Taylor or Kyle Orton but instead of him not panning out they also miss out on talent they used to move up for which means they have to make up for it in free agency which straps them for cap space like it is now with Beane having to dump players for mismanaged draft picks and signings.  Not to mention your HC and GM will be tossed and start all over again with that if the qb isn't franchise material. Keep in mind if the bills don't resign preston brown they will not have anyone left from the 2013 and 2014 draft on their squad. This is why the bills are where they are always going to be because they make dumb mistakes during the draft and have to fill gaps with free agents, which they end up overpaying put in a cap issue with mediocre talent at most positions. Thats why Whaley was canned its not because of any other reason, he was unable to find the correct talent swung for the fences on the Sammy deal and it blew up in his face. If beane does the same thing which I do not think he will then he will be out in 2-3 years.

Just because they have the ammo to move up doesn't mean it wont set a franchise back by doing so. Fans think it is easy to just blow their picks to reach for a player because they need one but its their jobs on the line when doing so. The bills have 18 free agents this year not to mention the 5 ERFAs. They signed two and now have at least 16 holes to fill. Giving up the 3 picks that should be automatic starting material is now dropped to 1, based on his scenario for this year. Yes there are the exception to it but this is how it works in the nfl.  1st and 2nd rd are set to be starters, rounds 3-4 are depth players if need be starters but shouldn't be right away as they need time to develop, 5-7 is either cut or special teams players. I rather have as many 1st and 2nd rd picks as I can to build up a squad and go for the qb when the team is actually built up rather then emptying the cupboard to land a qb and set him up to fail when he doesn't have all the pieces to start right away as those pieces were taken away to get him.

Eagles made several moves that fell into place for them to make the superbowl. Wentz had a top defense to help out and thats what won them the division and made it to the superbowl they invested alot of money and draft picks in to that defense in order for them to have an opportunity to move up for wentz. 

[Nick]

3 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

Yes the sammy watkins trade as well as the ej manuel signing killed the bills franchise. Just because the bills made the playoffs in what was one of the worst situations doesnt mean those trades didnt hurt. The bills missed out on several players because of that move to get watkins. 9-7 counting on a team to lose to make the playoffs only means one thing they were lucky. People act like the bills deserved to make it. As a fan I was happy to see them in postseason but no way did I think that team earned the playoff spot. Any other year they wouldn't have made it. Swinging on Sammy Watkins was a disaster, bad scouting with Ej manuel as they reached for a qb because they needed one and thats what happens. When you draft a qb that early they have to start right away, you cant go to an owner and say we gave up this much for him to sit the bench for a year as we think he may be the future. No one is going to buy that let alone the owner who is paying these people and that player. You develop him and if he doesn't pan out hat means another 3-4 years of having to play guys like Tyrod Taylor or Kyle Orton but instead of him not panning out they also miss out on talent they used to move up for which means they have to make up for it in free agency which straps them for cap space like it is now with Beane having to dump players for mismanaged draft picks and signings.  Not to mention your HC and GM will be tossed and start all over again with that if the qb isn't franchise material. Keep in mind if the bills don't resign preston brown they will not have anyone left from the 2013 and 2014 draft on their squad. This is why the bills are where they are always going to be because they make dumb mistakes during the draft and have to fill gaps with free agents, which they end up overpaying put in a cap issue with mediocre talent at most positions. Thats why Whaley was canned its not because of any other reason, he was unable to find the correct talent swung for the fences on the Sammy deal and it blew up in his face. If beane does the same thing which I do not think he will then he will be out in 2-3 years.

Just because they have the ammo to move up doesn't mean it wont set a franchise back by doing so. Fans think it is easy to just blow their picks to reach for a player because they need one but its their jobs on the line when doing so. The bills have 18 free agents this year not to mention the 5 ERFAs. They signed two and now have at least 16 holes to fill. Giving up the 3 picks that should be automatic starting material is now dropped to 1, based on his scenario for this year. Yes there are the exception to it but this is how it works in the nfl.  1st and 2nd rd are set to be starters, rounds 3-4 are depth players if need be starters but shouldn't be right away as they need time to develop, 5-7 is either cut or special teams players. I rather have as many 1st and 2nd rd picks as I can to build up a squad and go for the qb when the team is actually built up rather then emptying the cupboard to land a qb and set him up to fail when he doesn't have all the pieces to start right away as those pieces were taken away to get him.

Eagles made several moves that fell into place for them to make the superbowl. Wentz had a top defense to help out and thats what won them the division and made it to the superbowl they invested alot of money and draft picks in to that defense in order for them to have an opportunity to move up for wentz. 

You make valid points on the EJ/Watkins ordeal. My point was more that I think you're over exaggerating by saying "kill the franchise". We screwed up with those drafts, but it didn't ruin our team. We still were able to compete. Had we not screwed up those drafts, we might be in a far better position. I see what you're saying that that trade can be compared to making a move for a QB, but I think it's a different scenario and shouldn't be looked at the same.

I could type up a really long response, but you and I have very clear difference in opinions on the subject of trading up. I don't think we're making a mistake by giving up a few picks to take the most important position in all of sports. Josh Rosen is not a reach either, he's deserving of a top 5 selection. I'd argue he is just as polished, and if my opinion means anything, I think he is a better prospect than both Goff and Wentz.

[Trentwannabe]

Here is what Phil and LAR did.

Pay big price (draft pick wise) to get potential franchise QB
Have average/progression season
Year two spend big in free agency to fill holes and depth.

Buffalo is in the exact position to do just this with their current draft capital and currently 97mil in cap space for next season. 

@soflbillsfan I don't know how you can say that is too much when the Bills would still have 6 picks after taking a QB in this years draft and 7 next year before compensatory.