DaBoys Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said: Thats fine; but the money would be better spent elsewhere. And I still think you are selling Collins very short. He didnt play underman very well at all, well below what we expected anyway. But as a nose he held his own against some formidable duos including those road graders in Washington, which was a tough task. Collins was benched for Ash, bro. He never played 1 after like week 4. So idk why you are saying he held his own. Then you said he didn't play well at 3 but that's where he had his success as a rookie. You also said Paea did well for us but he retired before ever playing a game with us... So wth are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, flyingmonkey30 said: I'd rather see something like Logan or a rookie and Price rotating at the 1, and Irving/Collins rotating at the 3. Even sliding Irving outside once in a while because he can Crawford is in the mix inside as well as outside. I think that has become the real beauty of this unit. Everyone on the line has the ability to play more than one spot on that line - including several capable of playing on the nose so no one is worn out throughout the length of a game. Crawford, Collins, Irving and Price can all play the nose. Maybe they arent the ideal size and power types, but none of them have to do it for the entirery of the game making the need for that size precisely zilch - no one is getting beaten up all game long Lawrence, Crawford, Charlton and Irving all capable of playing at either end. Lawrence, Crawford, Collins and Irving all capable of playing the underspot. So, money and quality picks invested in guys who can do more than one thing, and pitch in at the least valuable position (nose) when its their turn to do so. To me, thats more valuable than throwing 4-7mil in cap dollars or a quality pick (3rd round or earlier) at a position any of those guys can man and rotate through while also giving you much more for your investment. That is likely why Jones said he could see the investment made on 1tech who can do more than 1tech all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Lol y'all need to go re-watch the damn games. Saying Collins a Paea did well at 1tech last year when neither were even on the damn field lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Collins was benched for Ash, bro. He never played 1 after like week 4. So idk why you are saying he held his own. Then you said he didn't play well at 3 but that's where he had his success as a rookie. You also said Paea did well for us but he retired before ever playing a game with us... So wth are you talking about? Collins rotated well man. Especially last season. He put up his stats as a 3. But contributed well from the 1 when rotating in. He is a 3 for sure. He ahs the burst. Its why he penetrated well. But he did fine at the one. And he saw action at the 1 spot this past season also. As for Ash, he held up better towards the end of the game. Didnt like him for much more than that, honestly. Or maybe im confusing him with Price. Whatever But you did see collins get reps in at 1 and 3 over the last two seasons, and he and Irving worked well in tandem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingmonkey30 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Lol y'all need to go re-watch the damn games. Saying Collins a Paea did well at 1tech last year when neither were even on the damn field lol Paea did look decent in like the 2 games he played before getting hurt. That was disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Lol y'all need to go re-watch the damn games. Saying Collins a Paea did well at 1tech last year when neither were even on the damn field lol Did not mean Paea, obviously Collins did pitch in at the 1 when called upon. He saw chances at both inside spots. And he wasnt terrible. Like I said well above in this threadz he just needs to develop his upperbody more so he is not worn out and worked over by mid game. Thats why Ash or Price came in handy and saw action; larger bodies who could eat the space and.abuse mid game so we can bring in the faster guys when it counted most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, flyingmonkey30 said: Paea did look decent in like the 2 games he played before getting hurt. That was disappointing. Paea or Price...terrible with names... but one of them early this season hogged three guys and gave Lawrence such a freeshot at rhe QB it was hilarious. Looked more like a misread by the tackle but the Guard went right into.him as the tackle stepped in instead of out, perhaps expecting a different protection. But it was an example of what a nose.should do - and why they will never, in this system, be worth paying much for. Put a big steong fatso in there and tell him not to move while shoving really hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 4 hours ago, SweetFancyMoses said: Weren't we the 8th best rushing D and the 11th vs the pass last year? Ha! Uh, no. I don't think you can watch the games last year a say we had a top 5-ish unit on defense if you are being honest with yourself. Be careful using bulk stats to define a unit. Yards per play is a much better indicator than total yards allowed imo. Who cares if you allowed the least rushing yards if you defended the least attempts? Follow? So look at the stats on a per play basis. For instance, there were 17 teams last year that allowed 4.1 rush yards per attempt or more. We were one of those. 18th in RushY/A 8th in PassY/A Our pass defense, aided by our pass rush, and the rookie CBs stepping up late, did very well. Even better than the bulk stats suggest. Our rush defense....not so much. Those stats back up the eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I think you guys should cut Dez, and go after Crabtree assuming he's not being overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Ha! Uh, no. I don't think you can watch the games last year a say we had a top 5-ish unit on defense if you are being honest with yourself. Be careful using bulk stats to define a unit. Yards per play is a much better indicator than total yards allowed imo. Who cares if you allowed the least rushing yards if you defended the least attempts? Follow? So look at the stats on a per play basis. For instance, there were 17 teams last year that allowed 4.1 rush yards per attempt or more. We were one of those. 18th in RushY/A 8th in PassY/A Our pass defense, aided by our pass rush, and the rookie CBs stepping up late, did very well. Even better than the bulk stats suggest. Our rush defense....not so much. Those stats back up the eyes. Our rushing yards allowed per game is a much better indicator considering the way this front seven plays. Playing reactive and off the line, the linebackers give far more room ro breathe to runningbacks than other styles of defense, giving up more yards per carry as a result. But the objective - preventing as many big plays as possible - is still achieved, hence the good overall numbers with rushing yards allowed and rushing yards given up per game. We gave them enough to keep trying, but enough for it to be a deciding factor (at least in most games, per the defensive objective) Scheme plays into this stuff a lot more than many of ya guys are giving it credit for. And no, im not a fan of.this defensive concept...but after years of Wade and then a year of Rob Ryan, it was a very nice change to stop giving every run play a huge cutback lane or every 4 yard little hitch or dig a huge free run for 80 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Our defense is not "designed," to give up 4.1 YPC. No it is not. And Sean Lee doesn't give space to anyone except the team doctor. You can see that in the years 2014 and 16. We went to the playoffs and allowed less than 4 ypc both years. THAT was by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Collins was 1st on the defensive line in snaps played as a rookie with 656, 2nd last year with 688. It would be wrong to suggest he got benched for Richard Ash, but not wrong to suggest he could use a little more of a breather, seeing as he failed to record a sack after Week 3 last year. I don't see how he profiles as a primary 1-tech, not even in this scheme, and he's broken his foot twice in two years. I think you'd see better per-snap productivity from him as the 3rd DT, if we could find a more reliable option to man the nose, which doesn't seem like a priority for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Danger said: I think you guys should do something Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Richard Ash played the nose. As the starter. For most of the season. That's a fact. Not an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Our defense is not "designed," to give up 4.1 YPC. No it is not. And Sean Lee doesn't give space to anyone except the team doctor. You can see that in the years 2014 and 16. We went to the playoffs and allowed less than 4 ypc both years. THAT was by design. Except the team dr made me.laugh Anyway, 4.1 sounds horrific if you are thinking of it solely as 4.1 - it sounds much worse than it actually is because of the context. Remove the context and its terrible. Context here being: the defense gave up far fewer big plays. The defense, in both run and pass, is designed to allow the small and.prevent the big. Of course Lee is that outstanding where he makes plays close to the line when playing far off the line -its why he is a stud. But make no mistake - these are not trench players at LB, well Hitch was, but these backers arent being played like bangers inside jarring around and attacking. They are reacting and getting to the ball quick as possible. It causes more ypc, especially when our fastest player at rhe position misses time (Lee). But as a whole this unit made most of those runners produce empty yardage.. Similar to Mcfadden a couple years ago. Good YPC, good rushing totals, but mostly just empty yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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