2018 NFL Combine (measurements in OP)

[Chargers]

10 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

 

 

Those are some Andrew Luckesque  measurables right here. 

[jrry32]

30 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Yay we are going to derail another thread...

The Combine is done for the day. When it gets started again tomorrow, people will no longer care about some stupid argument and will be focused on the Combine. Calm your tatas.

[Scoundrel]

6 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

The Combine is done for the day. When it gets started again tomorrow, people will no longer care about some stupid argument and will be focused on the Combine. Calm your tatas.

You just mad cus VanS always be smoking you in debates...

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Counselor said:

You just mad cus VanS always be smoking you in debates...

Oh you.

[Groink]

DaeSean Hamilton won't be testing at the Combine.

[GSUeagles14]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

The Browns aren't part of the NFL?   News to me.

was it a consensus? news to me. 

Also, that whole debate give me a headache. the think nfl teams are drafting to get a 1 year return is beyond silly. by your logic rg3 was a better pick than luck because he had the better rookie year.

[Iamcanadian]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

So did the NFL. 

Or did you miss the part where Johnny Manziel was a 1st round pick?  Who along with Blake Bortles was drafted ahead of Derek Carr. 

Being as bad as the public is not a defense if you're trying to argue that these people are more qualified.  I would hope NFL talent evalutors if they really do hold expertise in this field would have a better success rate than the public.   And nothing I've seen suggests that they do. 

 

I think you are on pretty weak ground here. Most of the public haven't a clue about primary positions vs secondary positions and would trade out of the top 5 for extra picks, exchanging a game changer for a couple of starters.

As for Watson over Trubisky, anybody who judges a QB on their rookie season is just off the mark! Trubisky could easily turn out to be the far better QB in the end, just like Goff turned it around in season 2!

In the end, if anyone from the public ever got to actually do a GM's job of running a draft, they would have a failure rate that would be off the charts. To begin with, without draft sites telling people who the better prospects are, their first round would look like a cartoon. Without a Mayock or even a Kiper who himself, relies on Mayock to correct his original errors, the public would not come even slightly close to predicting a draft.

I come from an era, where teams didn't have scouts till the Rams hired a bunch to try a new way. Before that, the draft was run as if the public were making the picks as they used All American teams and the Street and Smith magazine to make their picks and guess what the results were, the first time the Rams used actual scouts, they drafted something like 9 starters their first year, many of whom went on to be HoFers. Guess what the results were back then, teams quickly realized the benefit of hiring real scouts and relied on their prowess to make their selections and the error rate deceased like night to day.

I have been a draftnik for over 65 years, back when I had to rely on the Street and Smith magazine and All American teams, because few games were ever shown on TV and the Combine was like a closely guarded secret which the public had no access to, so don't for a moment believe the public can match professional in scouting players, you rely on the scouts like Mayock whether you believe it or not, to give you a list from which to pinpoint who you will watch, otherwise, you wouldn't know most of the prospects worth studying.

Is the public occasionally right and pro scouts wrong, of course, given a list from Mayock of who to watch, they may be right a few times and the scouts wrong, but overall, they would not come even remotely close to matching pro scouts who have to start from scratch every draft year. Nobody hands them a list???

[Scoundrel]

3 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

I think you are on pretty weak ground here. Most of the public haven't a clue about primary positions vs secondary positions and would trade out of the top 5 for extra picks, exchanging a game changer for a couple of starters.

As for Watson over Trubisky, anybody who judges a QB on their rookie season is just off the mark! Trubisky could easily turn out to be the far better QB in the end, just like Goff turned it around in season 2!

In the end, if anyone from the public ever got to actually do a GM's job of running a draft, they would have a failure rate that would be off the charts. To begin with, without draft sites telling people who the better prospects are, their first round would look like a cartoon. Without a Mayock or even a Kiper who himself, relies on Mayock to correct his original errors, the public would not come even slightly close to predicting a draft.

I come from an era, where teams didn't have scouts till the Rams hired a bunch to try a new way. Before that, the draft was run as if the public were making the picks as they used All American teams and the Street and Smith magazine to make their picks and guess what the results were, the first time the Rams used actual scouts, they drafted something like 9 starters their first year, many of whom went on to be HoFers. Guess what the results were back then, teams quickly realized the benefit of hiring real scouts and relied on their prowess to make their selections and the error rate deceased like night to day.

I have been a draftnik for over 65 years, back when I had to rely on the Street and Smith magazine and All American teams, because few games were ever shown on TV and the Combine was like a closely guarded secret which the public had no access to, so don't for a moment believe the public can match professional in scouting players, you rely on the scouts like Mayock whether you believe it or not, to give you a list from which to pinpoint who you will watch, otherwise, you wouldn't know most of the prospects worth studying.

Is the public occasionally right and pro scouts wrong, of course, given a list from Mayock of who to watch, they may be right a few times and the scouts wrong, but overall, they would not come even remotely close to matching pro scouts who have to start from scratch every draft year. Nobody hands them a list???

Kudos to you for posting on the forum at your age.

[Iamcanadian]

8 hours ago, reamer said:

That would be the best time for his weight ever recorded for a running back, I believe. If I did the math right, his speed score would be 130.145. That's insane.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/speed-score-2017

 

Ever hear of Bo Jackson who ran a 4.30 40 at 230lbs. and back then nobody practiced for the Combine like they do today. He just went out and did it.

[Iamcanadian]

8 hours ago, reamer said:

Just a reminder, but bench press has the lowest correlation to NFL success of any of the Combine tests. I'll see if I can dig up the study I read last year. The point is, though, that the strength and movement required for the NFL doesn't necessarily match the ability to throw up some weight x+ number of times. You don't want to see someone who doesn't spend time in the weight room, sure, but overall it's just not a concern. Don't downgrade guys just because of low reps.

Not quite true. While it may not guarantee functional football strength all the time, there is definitely a relationship between it and general weakness.

However, even more important to pro scouts, HC's and GM's, is the fact that it relates to how hard a gym worker a prospect is. It is often a strong indicator of just how hard a prospect will work to improve his performance and in that sense, it is an invaluable test for those who will draft him.

[Iamcanadian]

19 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Kudos to you for posting on the forum at your age.

Thanks, I will be 75 in July and still love the draft!!!

[DirtyDez]

How much better of an athlete was Palmer than Rosen?   Both have very similar measurables...

[Tugboat]

20 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

 

 

20 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

 

Interesting.  Very interesting.

Just looking at them, i would not have guessed that Rosen is actually slightly bigger+heavier than Darnold.  Doesn't really look as solidly built, but there you go...

 

18 hours ago, Da_Ducktator said:

The main thing to be watching for is the underclassman measurements. As @CalhounLambeau said, we already have measurements on A LOT of the senior. Just a few here and there who skipped All-Star Games for whatever reasons.

I was talking with Greg Gabriel about Riley Ferguson's weight influx (which promoted him to post a tweet about it) saying how some guys will drink a ton of water before Combine weigh-in to add weight. Ferguson was only 196 at the East-West Shrine Game and was 212 today. Gabriel said they are able to do that in Indy because they don't have to workout the same day. Pro Day though, they have to weigh-in and then workout, so they can't take in that much water beforehand. Interesting point overall I thought.

Yeah.  Riley Ferguson's weigh in is really surprising to me.  He looks like a seriously thin/light guy on film.  Seems like he probably does have the frame to put that sort of weight (or more) on over time...but that's a big swing over a fairly short span.  He certainly didn't look 212 on the field.  But it'd be great for his stock if he has shown up a solid ~212 ballpark, if it's not just some water weight trickery or bad weight, or whatever else.  Think adding some good mass ought to help with combine testing for him too...where he often looked like he was lacking strength/power/explosiveness on film.

[Tugboat]

13 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

You’re not wrong and I’m not necessarily disagreeing, but in this case he hurt it on the first rep of a bench press. 

Maybe he strained it because he was nervous, rushing, over training, or something else that wouldn’t have occurred if he wasn’t at the combine - but it’s a pretty routine thing to be doing, especially in a sport that predicates explosion. I get wanting to be safe and getting the money, but you still need to train. If he tore a hamstring at an individual practice with a team or tore a pectoral just strength training, I doubt we’d be entertaining that maybe guys don’t need to be doing them. 

I do agree that prospects that don’t have perceived physical limitations to deter, don’t have a ton to gain. But coming to the combine and having very good workouts doesn’t hurt a guy’s stock and IMO the upside is worth the possible injuries given that most of the movements are ones that they’ve been doing for years.

Yeah.  It's pretty brutal for Billy Price, and pending the severity, will almost certainly hurt his draft stock a fair bit.  Especially if it means he's going to need a "redshirt" year.  It's easy to say, "never go any draft season events ever to avoid injury risk"...but it's not realistic.  These guys are going to have to be doing some training and workouts and preparation to make the jump to the Pros no matter what.  The guy could get just as injured in the gym pumping out some reps at home over the summer anyway.  You're not just going to cease all training and practice because...you might get hurt.

It's just really rotten luck.  But sometimes stuff happens.  You can't just avoid any potential injury situation as an aspiring professional athlete.  It's a rough, physical sport with demanding training.  Guys get injured all the time.  It's part of the business.  Much as it sucks for it to detour a guys career just as it's about to get started...bad luck isn't an overly compelling reason to avoid training situations heading into the NFL draft.

[goldfishwars]