Burnett42 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Green19 said: I’m sure... this is all subjective. Some will love him others will hate him. The only guy I trust that had him as a loser is Bucky Brooks but he pointed to everything I mentioned... he is too uptight and although ran ok, he didn’t wow in speed test. All the scouts knew that going into it. Did anyone truly think he was going to be a completely different player? If he was that’s when you should worry because you can’t get a read on a guy. He is a press and bail guy... it focuses on what he does well and minimize what he struggles with. Other than that he is mostly zone. Doesn’t me you can fudge it a bit an run some man stuff with him. Again when it relates to GB it depends on the secondary style Pettine wants to play. Matt Miller still had him going in the top 10 post combine, again it’s all subjective. And the lowest I tend to see him is 18 to Seattle, which is a great fit for him. Hopefully he goes before us. But as long as we don't get him I'll be happy. Hoping for Landry, Davenport, Ward, or James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 7 hours ago, jleisher said: This one will tick some people off, trade up. Packers send 2018 #1, 2018 #4, 2019 #1 and 2020 #1, to Browns for 2018 #1. With the first pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the Green Bay Packers select, SAQUON BARKLEY RB Penn St. Then Packers trade up again, with the Browns. Packers send 2018 #2, #3 and 2020 4th rd for Browns 2018 2#1 pick. With the first pick in round #2, the Green Bay Packers select, HAROLD LANDRY EDGE BC. Just saying!?!?! No offense but on a D+D organization - you just gave away the first D - for a good long while. Could have done this last year with Mixon and wouldnt have to give away the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 33 minutes ago, Green19 said: I’m sure... this is all subjective. Some will love him others will hate him. The only guy I trust that had him as a loser is Bucky Brooks but he pointed to everything I mentioned... he is too uptight and although ran ok, he didn’t wow in speed test. All the scouts knew that going into it. Did anyone truly think he was going to be a completely different player? If he was that’s when you should worry because you can’t get a read on a guy. I don’t see he name consistently like others... like a Brown. He is a press and bail guy... it focuses on what he does well and minimize what he struggles with. Other than that he is mostly zone. Doesn’t me you can fudge it a bit an run some man stuff with him. Again when it relates to GB it depends on the secondary style Pettine wants to play. Matt Miller still had him going in the top 10 post combine, again it’s all subjective. And the lowest I tend to see him is 18 to Seattle, which is a great fit for him. This right here makes it hard for me to believe you actually watched any tape on the guy. He literally NEVER pressed and anything last year. I watched I think everything available and there's, off the top of my head, two maybe three times he touched a guy within three yards of the line of scrimmage last year. Once he made an absolutely great play on an underthrown ball when he was beat (vs. OSU) and the other he literally fell down and gave up a TD (vs. ISU). I think there was another random play that the ball didn't go his way. If you want to take the time to look at the tape and can point me to 13 times, that's once a game, heck I'll go with 5 times he touched (literally just put a finger on) a receiver within three yards of the line of scrimmage last year I'll never talk about the guy again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 8 hours ago, Green19 said: And that’s my point... take any 1st round talent and put him in the wrong fit, they will bust. Look at most every bust, most arguely fit is key for all of these guys for success. Jackson is no different. Now if you want to discuss his fit in a Pettine defense that’s fine... maybe he’d be just awful. My point in my original post is he isn’t likely to be there at 14 anyways. That some team above GB will love the fit. I did that to frame what guys would be there for GB. But no one on here is going to convince me Jackson isn’t a top 15 player in this class. Too many scouts have him consistently up there both pre and post combine. So his combine couldn’t of been that bad otherwise he would be mentioned as a faller... he isn’t. Well, I agree to an extent as to why a lot of players bust. Obviously there are other reasons too. That said I don’t believe he will go before 14. I’d be surprised if he went in the first honestly. I was shocked watching him move backwards and turning at the combine. For a potential first round pick that wasn’t good and I’ll bet a lot of scouts feel the same way. Whenever he finds himself is that situation he’ll get burned. I guess it could be technique like you say but dang, how the heck do you get that far and not have those skills? I also think his ball skills are a bit over player. He’s got hands but half of his INT’s fell right into his lap. Good omayer, just don’t think he’ll go in the first but hey I could totally be wrong and please call me out if I am. I’ll eat that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredpack Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 58 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: Well, I agree to an extent as to why a lot of players bust. Obviously there are other reasons too. That said I don’t believe he will go before 14. I’d be surprised if he went in the first honestly. I was shocked watching him move backwards and turning at the combine. For a potential first round pick that wasn’t good and I’ll bet a lot of scouts feel the same way. Whenever he finds himself is that situation he’ll get burned. I guess it could be technique like you say but dang, how the heck do you get that far and not have those skills? I also think his ball skills are a bit over player. He’s got hands but half of his INT’s fell right into his lap. Good omayer, just don’t think he’ll go in the first but hey I could totally be wrong and please call me out if I am. I’ll eat that. He's fairly new to the corner back position. Was always under the impression he was getting by with supreme ball skills, and natural athletic ability. I don't think anyone drafting Jackson is considering him a polished or finished product. A lot of room for growth. Really don't want him in Green and Gold--had some interest early on in the process. But he just doesn't do it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 8 hours ago, wgbeethree said: This right here makes it hard for me to believe you actually watched any tape on the guy. He literally NEVER pressed and anything last year. One press and bail isn’t about the press. In fact in that technique you don’t press. You just give the appearance of press man to man. By ball snap you already open your hips and are bailing deep. This allows you read the ball and make plays on it. Jackson does that. And he is great at it because he doesn’t need to back pedal. This is his qb talking about him: — “He disguises the coverages that he’s playing well,” said Stanley. “He’ll come up and set up on the line like he’s going to press and then bail. So he definitely poses some problems with reads that our receivers have to get and the reads that I have to get. https://allhawkeyes.com/pages/story/details/2127 And here is matt miller after the combine: — Jackson has ideal size (6'1", 192 lbs) and grabbed eight interceptions in his junior year before entering the NFL draft. He doesn't have blinding speed (4.56 seconds in the 40) but is quick and physical at the line of scrimmage. His press and bail technique are the best of the top-tier corners I've studied. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2762798-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-7-round-predictions-post-combine.amp.html Plus he did it in the Wisconsin and Nebraska games. I want to say he got an INT or close to it vs Nebraska. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgwingman Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I have a question: Which non-positional need play would you like us to draft the most at 14? Let's assume Roquan Smith, Chubb, Jackson, Fitzpatrick, Davenport, Ward, James, etc are all gone. You can choose between Quentin Nelson, Vita Vea, and Calvin Ridley are all available. Who are you taking and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 26 minutes ago, pgwingman said: I have a question: Which non-positional need play would you like us to draft the most at 14? Let's assume Roquan Smith, Chubb, Jackson, Fitzpatrick, Davenport, Ward, James, etc are all gone. You can choose between Quentin Nelson, Vita Vea, and Calvin Ridley are all available. Who are you taking and why? Vita Vea. We have proven you can get good-great Gs later on and Guards don’t move the needle on really changing a game. Nice to have but you can get by with a Taylor and McCray. Ridley is a no because he isn’t anything truly special at WR. If he was julio or Calvin Johnson it would be more interesting. But honestly I’m in the New England school on this... give your hall of gamer QB nothing at WR and let him elevate them. Vita Vea is a freak at his position... and having a crazy freak at that position makes everything easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenrik Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Green19 said: One press and bail isn’t about the press. In fact in that technique you don’t press. You just give the appearance of press man to man. By ball snap you already open your hips and are bailing deep. This allows you read the ball and make plays on it. Jackson does that. And he is great at it because he doesn’t need to back pedal. This is his qb talking about him: — “He disguises the coverages that he’s playing well,” said Stanley. “He’ll come up and set up on the line like he’s going to press and then bail. So he definitely poses some problems with reads that our receivers have to get and the reads that I have to get. https://allhawkeyes.com/pages/story/details/2127 And here is matt miller after the combine: — Jackson has ideal size (6'1", 192 lbs) and grabbed eight interceptions in his junior year before entering the NFL draft. He doesn't have blinding speed (4.56 seconds in the 40) but is quick and physical at the line of scrimmage. His press and bail technique are the best of the top-tier corners I've studied. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2762798-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-7-round-predictions-post-combine.amp.html Plus he did it in the Wisconsin and Nebraska games. I want to say he got an INT or close to it vs Nebraska. If he rarely ever presses then how is he so good at disguising his coverage? As a WR it's pretty obvious he's not going to press... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Green19 said: Vita Vea. We have proven you can get good-great Gs later on and Guards don’t move the needle on really changing a game. Nice to have but you can get by with a Taylor and McCray. Ridley is a no because he isn’t anything truly special at WR. If he was julio or Calvin Johnson it would be more interesting. But honestly I’m in the New England school on this... give your hall of gamer QB nothing at WR and let him elevate them. Vita Vea is a freak at his position... and having a crazy freak at that position makes everything easier. Ridley reminds me of Brown from the Steelers. Super smooth. If I knew for sure I was getting that guy it would be interesting. I believe a good OL is the sum of the parts. We or anyone doesn’t need a stud at OG. Better to spend the money elsewhere. Vea is different. There are only so many men around that big. When you favor in his athletic ability at that size, is an easy decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooters22 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 On 3/6/2018 at 6:26 PM, jleisher said: This one will tick some people off, trade up. Packers send 2018 #1, 2018 #4, 2019 #1 and 2020 #1, to Browns for 2018 #1. With the first pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the Green Bay Packers select, SAQUON BARKLEY RB Penn St. Then Packers trade up again, with the Browns. Packers send 2018 #2, #3 and 2020 4th rd for Browns 2018 2#1 pick. With the first pick in round #2, the Green Bay Packers select, HAROLD LANDRY EDGE BC. Just saying!?!?! And then we could trade them all of the Viking's first rounders and get Herschel Walker back and trade for Jerry Nagie as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 21 hours ago, Kenrik said: If he rarely ever presses then how is he so good at disguising his coverage? As a WR it's pretty obvious he's not going to press... He does press though. He just doesn’t really jam guys at the line... only presses them. His games against Michigan St and Purdue he does this. Also when they are close to the end zone because he can’t get away with giving too much of a cushion. But he does press he just isn’t physical at the line... he is at the top of the receiver’s route though. If you (a general you, not you specifically kenrik) wanted to trade for Marcus Peters or love Marcus Peters as a corner.... Josh Jackson is like the same prospect he was coming out. Peters maybe was a little smoother. But size, weight, speed... all pretty much the same. He went back half of the first round. With the class being what it is at CB... that’s why I think he is being projected in the top half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 41 minutes ago, Green19 said: He does press though. He just doesn’t really jam guys at the line... only presses them. His games against Michigan St and Purdue he does this. Also when they are close to the end zone because he can’t get away with giving too much of a cushion. But he does press he just isn’t physical at the line... he is at the top of the receiver’s route though. If you (a general you, not you specifically kenrik) wanted to trade for Marcus Peters or love Marcus Peters as a corner.... Josh Jackson is like the same prospect he was coming out. Peters maybe was a little smoother. But size, weight, speed... all pretty much the same. He went back half of the first round. With the class being what it is at CB... that’s why I think he is being projected in the top half. I definitely don't want to get into an internet argument, I already feel like I came of as a jerk, and my opinion means absolutely bupkis in the grand scheme of things so I'll stop after this. Jackson is just my random player I feel strongly about this year. The bolded is entirely accurate IMO. It's the reason I strongly dislike the player. I don't like that style at all. To me that's the worst combination you can have as a corner. We'll just have to agree to disagree. If he ends up being the Packers pick I'll be disappointed but I'll definitely be rooting for a plate of crow to feast on and a need for a post telling you the three words every man loves to hear... "You were right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, wgbeethree said: I definitely don't want to get into an internet argument, I already feel like I came of as a jerk, and my opinion means absolutely bupkis in the grand scheme of things so I'll stop after this. Jackson is just my random player I feel strongly about this year. The bolded is entirely accurate IMO. It's the reason I strongly dislike the player. I don't like that style at all. To me that's the worst combination you can have as a corner. We'll just have to agree to disagree. If he ends up being the Packers pick I'll be disappointed but I'll definitely be rooting for a plate of crow to feast on and a need for a post telling you the three words every man loves to hear... "You were right". No worries man. I just liked Marcus Peters coming out, I like Jackson. I like Richard Sherman. In the right scheme these guys are difference makers... in the wrong one they are extremely limited and a costly liability. If Mike Pettine runs a Ryan defense I’m sure we don’t need to worry about Jackson. The only wild card is his time in Seattle and if that has greatly influenced him. Other than that I really don’t see Green Bay looking past edge rusher in the first. I feel honestly the pick will be Harold Landry, even if Jackson and others are there haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 5 hours ago, cooters22 said: And then we could trade them all of the Viking's first rounders and get Herschel Walker back and trade for Jerry Nagie as well. Nah, Herschel Walker is over 30, and you know what they say about RB's over 30! LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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