vegas492 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I really do question whether or not Pettine would actually utilize them? I feel like @AlexGreen#20 touched on this before, but the EDGE guys Pettine have had in the past haven't been big pass rush threats. In 2015, Desmond Bryant, Armonty Bryant, Christian Kirksey, and Nate Orchard were the top sack leaders. The previous year they had Paul Kruger (11 sacks), Desmond Bryant, and Karlos Dansby as the top sack leaders. Going to 2013 with Buffalo, you had Mario Williams (13), Kyle Williams (10.5), Jerry Hughes (10), Marcel Dareus (7.5), and Manny Lawson were the top sack getters. Even going back to his days with the Jets, the highest sack total was 6 sacks by Bryan Thomas (2010) and Aaron Maybin (2011). I'd argue that the 2013 Bills' D was the most talented that Pettine had and they were 20th in PPG. Those teams have a young, ascending secondary? Couple if's here....but if the offense can get a lead....and if the young corners are healthy, one has to believe that Pettine will allow his edge guys to just go attack the QB. And I'd argue that those ascending corners are going to lead to some coverage sacks.... I think this defense has a very bright future. It is missing the quick speed off of the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Those teams have a young, ascending secondary? Couple if's here....but if the offense can get a lead....and if the young corners are healthy, one has to believe that Pettine will allow his edge guys to just go attack the QB. And I'd argue that those ascending corners are going to lead to some coverage sacks.... I think this defense has a very bright future. It is missing the quick speed off of the edge. Pure speed rushers would get massacred in this look. Those guys are situational only with this scheme. The edge guys will get to pin their ears back when we get a big lead. That's just not Pettine's game. Never has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 As a group, the Packers outside linebackers have 11 sacks so far and are on pace for 20 on the season. That is respectable sack production from the team's "edge" players. However, the fact that between them Gilbert and Fackrell are responsible for 2/3s of those sacks while their much, much higher compensated fellow OLBs are on pace for 7 sacks, combined, for the season is highly problematic. Next season, the Packers are obviously not going to pay Matthews anywhere near the $11.36M he is counting against the cap this season given his modest production. Thus, there will be resources available to devote to Clay's replacement. As for Perry, coming into this season, I never would have contemplated the Pack moving on from him until at least 2021. However, given how Gute has already gotten rid of so many of his predecessor's other players and his 14.75M 2019 cap hit, I am starting to entertain the possibility that Nick may not be playing in Green and Gold as long as I previously envisioned. In any case, Pettine's D will undoubtedly improve even more if and when the Packers start seeing better returns on some of the costly investments they've made on that side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Pure speed rushers would get massacred in this look. Those guys are situational only with this scheme. The edge guys will get to pin their ears back when we get a big lead. That's just not Pettine's game. Never has been. I agree. But that situation that you describe happens in every game. I'd take a speed/quick guy and pair him with a power guy. Ideally, though, you find a better version of Perry, maybe a Chubb from this past draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I agree. But that situation that you describe happens in every game. I'd take a speed/quick guy and pair him with a power guy. Ideally, though, you find a better version of Perry, maybe a Chubb from this past draft. We really only see the wide splits when the game is over. Even in standard pressure downs, we tend to blitz rather than spread everything out. Maybe that would change, but so far it hasn't been the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecatcher Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Pure speed rushers would get massacred in this look. Those guys are situational only with this scheme. The edge guys will get to pin their ears back when we get a big lead. That's just not Pettine's game. Never has been. I've been arguing this for weeks just slightly differently. The fact that people have complained about pass rush with a team that has been top 3 in sacks per game all year and now lead the league has been frustrating. Turnovers and undisciplined penalties are the biggest reason this team is where they are. Only 2 teams are better than .500 with a Give/Take at -1. The Packers are at 0 for give/take. The Packers are also 7th in total penalties and 9th in penalties accepted. Gotta clean that up IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 50 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: We really only see the wide splits when the game is over. Even in standard pressure downs, we tend to blitz rather than spread everything out. Maybe that would change, but so far it hasn't been the case. You've studied the scheme...does anything change when you have 3 very good corners? I would have to think it does....at least a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, vegas492 said: You've studied the scheme...does anything change when you have 3 very good corners? I would have to think it does....at least a little bit. Maybe you're a bit more comfortable with that second Safety in the box as a blitzer a bit more. Not seeing a huge difference from an edge rusher perspective, maybe a few more pressure sacks but I'm not seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: Maybe you're a bit more comfortable with that second Safety in the box as a blitzer a bit more. Not seeing a huge difference from an edge rusher perspective, maybe a few more pressure sacks but I'm not seeing it. Agreed. As much as I'd love to have Khalil Mack, I don't see our EDGE guys has being huge sack producers. Maybe the scheme gets tweaked with a player of Mack's caliber, but it seems that Pettine puts a premium on holding the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Maybe you're a bit more comfortable with that second Safety in the box as a blitzer a bit more. Not seeing a huge difference from an edge rusher perspective, maybe a few more pressure sacks but I'm not seeing it. Thanks for offering your opinion. I too think that the young secondary will ultimately lead to more pressures, but I get excited when I think about what GB can do with the blitz game with those guys on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Packers have more sacks per game than the Khalil Mack-led Bears GB currently sitting at number 3 in the league in Sacks per game GB sitting at number 1 in Sack Percentage per game https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Packers have more sacks per game than the Khalil Mack-led Bears GB currently sitting at number 3 in the league in Sacks per game GB sitting at number 1 in Sack Percentage per game https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct But according to TOT, having Nick Perry and Clay Matthews making that much money is holding the team back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevein2012 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 53 minutes ago, CWood21 said: But according to TOT, having Nick Perry and Clay Matthews making that much money is holding the team back. It's not helping. Neither is playing particularly well regardless of their role. You don't really want to be paying that kind of money for non impact guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, CWood21 said: But according to TOT, having Nick Perry and Clay Matthews making that much money is holding the team back. Indeed, it is. While Pettine is doing a great job overcoming the pedestrian (or worse) play of the 2 highest-paid players on his defense, If the Pack was not devoting so much of its salary cap $ to Clay and Nick, the team could undoubtedly afford (and could have previously afforded) to improve the talent elsewhere on the roster. While you CWood are obviously perfectly fine with Perry counting $10.75M against the cap in return for his 1.5 sacks and Clay counting $11.3M for his 2.5 sacks, I somehow don't think Gute is looking at it your way. In fact, I'm confident Gute views the OLB position the way many Packers fans do, too many resources being spent on two guys for too little production and I am optimistic he will begin taking steps to rectify the problem shortly after the conclusion of the 2018 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Stevein2012 said: It's not helping. Neither is playing particularly well regardless of their role. You don't really want to be paying that kind of money for non impact guys. I've never quite understood this...and I'm guilty of it as well. GB is under the salary cap. Why do we care what they pay Matthews and Perry? It isn't like the money was going somewhere else. I've never really understood why us fans get so upset with how much a player gets paid. And my word, would there ever be fits of rage if the team went into the season with Fackrell and Gilbert as our edge players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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