Mike Pettine Defense

[MacReady]

No, @palmy50.  Don't answer Incognito.  I can't handle that answer if it's not what I want to hear.  I can handle it from the others because I can always tell myself they're dumb, but I can't handle it from you.  Don't break my heart.

[cannondale]

5 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

All I know is if Clay gets back to even his 2017 form, we're gonna have a good defense this year.

Suckage is degenerative.

If he were smart, he would ask to be moved inside, kick some azz, and hope for one more contract somewhere. 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Gilbert and Perry played most of the game on the open side of the formation, whereas Clay played on the strong side.

In the 4th quarter, Perry and Gilbert were in the game together and Gilbert lined up a few times on the strong side.

Interestingly, on a run wide, Gilbert danced with the tight end Burton the same way Clay and Fackrell have been criticized for.  Furthermore, on a pass play where Gilbert was lined up to rush, he instead went with the running back all the way to the end zone.  

Just a couple of plays, but could it be that they have other responsibilities that Pettine felt were more important than selling out on pass rush?

I mean, did Pettine want them to control their gap when playing man coverage so that the QB couldn't break out on big runs when the defensive backs were focused on man coverage?  Was Pettine more concerned that Trubisky could hurt us with broken plays more than with his arm?

I think it is popular to hack on Clay for that game, and the penalty was maddening, but given what Pettine said about this defense in the preseason I think it is  premature to say Clay has lost it.  Reminds me of when it was popular to say Julius Peppers was incapable of 11 sacks in a year.

 

[Cheech]

Do you think 52 can stay healthy and be effective playing 60 snaps a game?

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

48 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Do you think 52 can stay healthy and be effective playing 60 snaps a game?

Depends on what he is asked to do.

He certainly did when he was an ILB. In 2015 he played over 1000 snaps and over 97% of the defensive snaps.  In the SAM position, where he isn't in high intensity combat with an offensive tackle on every play, then I suspect he will be more likely to do so.  If he has to go back to being just a 3-4 OLB where he rushes the passer with reckless abandon on every play, then no.

But if they have to go more 3-4 OLB looks, they can rotate Perry, Gilbert, and Matthews so each would be able to rest about 1/3 of the snaps.  Last game, it seemed to me that they rotated Gilbert and Perry as the rush linebackers, and Matthews went between pass rush and off the ball type roles where the off the ball stuff frequently gave him a break as the play wasn't coming his way in coverage. 

As the SAM, he takes on a duty cycle more like the ILB, which should be sustainable.

I think a lot of the criticism of Clay is due to the role of more SAM, and so his pass rush looks weak, when in fact he had a significant set of reads and contain responsibility.  He has never been a great contain guy because he is the football equivalent of a terrier- see ball- go get ball- and thus has tended to overcommit or over pursue in the run game, much like he did on Trubisky's touchdown run where he bit on the fake to go for the play on the back..  I think it will take him a few games to adjust.

[palmy50]

10 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Really, give Gilbert more snaps, let clay play some 2ILBs snaps with Martinez

Pettine isn't dumb or mindlessly loyal to Clay. We will see this. 

Is Gilbert better at edge in this system than CMIII? 

@palmy50

I'm not gonna say Mathews can't play the fit. The fit will expose some Mathews flaws though and mask some of Gilbert/Perry's issues. Perry is damn near the prototype and Gilbert is very much so a poor mans Perry in terms of physical play style. 

Baltimore has had this thing in place for a minute. Suggs is a great example of what your looking for in system played. But that Baltimore roster is a prime example of what will shine in this system. Williams and Bowser are both smaller guys with paper numbers. But the "system studs" are Suggs, Judon, and Smith. Not that the numbers don't need to work but there's now a premium on physicality. If you have the numbers and the physicality, well, go watch the first half of Packers/Bears!

[Packerraymond]

28 minutes ago, palmy50 said:

I'm not gonna say Mathews can't play the fit. The fit will expose some Mathews flaws though and mask some of Gilbert/Perry's issues. Perry is damn near the prototype and Gilbert is very much so a poor mans Perry in terms of physical play style. 

Baltimore has had this thing in place for a minute. Suggs is a great example of what your looking for in system played. But that Baltimore roster is a prime example of what will shine in this system. Williams and Bowser are both smaller guys with paper numbers. But the "system studs" are Suggs, Judon, and Smith. Not that the numbers don't need to work but there's now a premium on physicality. If you have the numbers and the physicality, well, go watch the first half of Packers/Bears!

What's your take on Brice? Apparently Pettine's highest graded player from the film study last week. Could we have a long term starter there or is he a cost effective place holder until we draft someone?

[palmy50]

Gilbert and Brice might be the two biggest guys that'll benefit from the Pettine hire. Clay and Daniels, not so much! Daniels is still in his prime year's though and should be able to make it work. He's just not exactly what you'd draw up, that's all. 

Pettine will have enough skills guys around Brice to mask his lack of coverage skills. If he has a good connection with Brice and can calm him down a bit out there Brice might develop into a true stud. He needs to stay healthy but Brice is in the right place at the right time!

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, palmy50 said:

Gilbert and Brice might be the two biggest guys that'll benefit from the Pettine hire. Clay and Daniels, not so much! Daniels is still in his prime year's though and should be able to make it work. He's just not exactly what you'd draw up, that's all. 

Pettine will have enough skills guys around Brice to mask his lack of coverage skills. If he has a good connection with Brice and can calm him down a bit out there Brice might develop into a true stud. He needs to stay healthy but Brice is in the right place at the right time!

Thanks for the comment, Palmy! What I'm hearing you say is it's not just about football ability, also about how that ability fits the system. Drafting then comes down to finding players who score high on a team's ability-fit evaluation. Right?

[palmy50]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Thanks for the comment, Palmy! What I'm hearing you say is it's not just about football ability, also about how that ability fits the system. Drafting then comes down to finding players who score high on a team's ability-fit evaluation. Right?

Talent is a must at this level. How everyone see's said talent and what they hold a premium on is what dictates draft day. Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level. Talent is not enough!

[Shanedorf]

[cannondale]

Roughing the DL. Cousins landing with his full weight on the opponent, driving him to the turf

[MNPackfan32]

According to @PFF, when Stefon Diggs was covered by either Josh Jackson or Jaire Alexander on Sunday, the #Packers’ rookie CB duo surrendered just three catches for six yards.

 

So that puts the other corners at 6 catches for 122 (20.3) and 2 TD's. Disappointed Pettine didn't stick those 2 on him more, and Jackson only playing 47% of the snaps is a joke. House shouldn't get 1 snap over him.

[Packerraymond]

3 minutes ago, MNPackfan32 said:

According to @PFF, when Stefon Diggs was covered by either Josh Jackson or Jaire Alexander on Sunday, the #Packers’ rookie CB duo surrendered just three catches for six yards.

 

So that puts the other corners at 6 catches for 122 (20.3) and 2 TD's. Disappointed Pettine didn't stick those 2 on him more, and Jackson only playing 47% of the snaps is a joke. House shouldn't get 1 snap over him.

These are what early games are for, you play your vets, sneak your rookies into the lineup and see if they are ready. They either sink or swim. We've done this with King, Randall, Clark, HHCD, etc. Pretty clear Jaire and Josh are ready and they'll see more time now.

We knew going into that game when they got Diggs on Tramon it was going to be a mismatch and even moreso when House was needed. Still Brice kind of screwed the pooch on House on the long play.

[MNPackfan32]

3 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

These are what early games are for, you play your vets, sneak your rookies into the lineup and see if they are ready. They either sink or swim. We've done this with King, Randall, Clark, HHCD, etc. Pretty clear Jaire and Josh are ready and they'll see more time now.

We knew going into that game when they got Diggs on Tramon it was going to be a mismatch and even moreso when House was needed. Still Brice kind of screwed the pooch on House on the long play.

Fatal freaking flaw is when you said "We've done this with...." I thought that's why we changed DC's. I don't want to operate the same way we have been on defense. It hasn't been working. Play your best players. Idgaf if they have played 10 years or 10 snaps in the NFL. I'm just annoyed that the young guys are getting passed up for older guys just because.