2017 College Football / Scouting

[K-Ro 25]

Just now, Jlash said:

This season has been his best completion % at 63. While that's not elite level, I'm 99% positive his team leads the league far and away in dropped passes, which effects that stat greatly.

I just want to say thank you for using the correlation between dropped passes and completion %. I've been arguing the same driving point with Lamar Jackson, who's school is actually #1 in the nation in dropped pass %. I know UCLA is top 5 though.

[Rockice_8]

17 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

McCown is starting therforit does set back this franchise. If he was on a 1yr deal as a backup and helping in the film room and in practice I’d be all for him being here. But that’s not the case. I’m even for him just starting 8 games or so. But what happens with that is what’s happened to us in 2015 and now this season. The vet plays pretty decent and therefore you never develop a young QB with meaningful snaps. At least in 2015 we were 10-6 (which still wasn’t good enough for playoffs) I don’t think any of us see us going 6-1 this last 2 months. So getting good wins from a 40yr old shouldn’t be the goal at an in a few weeks when the season isn’t going anywhere for us at that point. And to be honest Petty has his shot last year so it should be Hacks chance to start. If we play McCown all 16 games this franchise is no better off at the most important position in football. Next year we’d still have no clue what Hack is like in real time football. McCown still would be just a average plug in QB. And for me Petty doesn’t hold even a solid roster spot. Yes we could draft a rookie. But do you really think we’d play that rookie over McCown or Hack? No chance. Nothing we’ve done in the last decade would suggest that. Especially under this regime. So see what you have with Hack for at least a few games this year. I love that we’re competing in every game, but I don’t like how much it sets this franchise back.

As SDOTNOVA said others have stepped up because of competent QB play.  

We will play whoever is the best QB that's how it should be.  McCown is pretty a average to below average QB.  Hack can't even prove enough in practice that he is ready to start.  You really think that if he was outplaying McCown in practice that he wouldn't be starting.  That's my main issue with this whole situation.  I want to see Hack and I want him to be good but I also don't want to throw him out there just because he's young either.  The culture change is in full effect here and that is so encouraging to see.  Guys are playing hard and the guys that earn their spots are playing.  We would undo everything we have do so far this year by just playing Hack when the playoffs are still possible.  if we're 5-9 in week 14 then by all means throw him out there but we need to stay with the better QB right now and it's McCown.  

We would be the Giants right now if we started the year with Hack.  We'd probably have 1-2 wins and the locker room would be divided.  If we draft a QB and he plays well in TC then he'll start.  Bowles and Mac want to win and if Jackson outplays McCown next TC you better believe he'll be playing and McCown will be mentoring.  Problem was both Hack and Petty were clearly below McCown is grasp of the offense which is the real problem.

[doumeyer]

16 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

Tbh I have a gut feeling we're gonna go QB or Edge Rusher. My estimation it's gonna be Jackson/Mayfield vs Chubb/Key

I will tell you the truth Dr. I like Rosen the best, but I will be happy with any one of the four QB's in the draft. I just want our own home grown QB.

[K-Ro 25]

1 minute ago, Rockice_8 said:

As SDOTNOVA said others have stepped up because of competent QB play.  

We will play whoever is the best QB that's how it should be.  McCown is pretty a average to below average QB.  Hack can't even prove enough in practice that he is ready to start.  You really think that if he was outplaying McCown in practice that he wouldn't be starting.  That's my main issue with this whole situation.  I want to see Hack and I want him to be good but I also don't want to throw him out there just because he's young either.  The culture change is in full effect here and that is so encouraging to see.  Guys are playing hard and the guys that earn their spots are playing.  We would undo everything we have do so far this year by just playing Hack when the playoffs are still possible.  if we're 5-9 in week 14 then by all means throw him out there but we need to stay with the better QB right now and it's McCown.  

We would be the Giants right now if we started the year with Hack.  We'd probably have 1-2 wins and the locker room would be divided.  If we draft a QB and he plays well in TC then he'll start.  Bowles and Mac want to win and if Jackson outplays McCown next TC you better believe he'll be playing and McCown will be mentoring.  Problem was both Hack and Petty were clearly below McCown is grasp of the offense which is the real problem.

Bowles' incompetence in making adjustments makes this possibility unrealistic. After watching Bowles stick Fitz in week after week last year, I lost all faith in him to make ballsy moves like that.

[Rockice_8]

Just now, K-Ro 25 said:

Bowles' incompetence in making adjustments makes this possibility unrealistic. After watching Bowles stick Fitz in week after week last year, I lost all faith in him to make ballsy moves like that.

It's not ballsy if he wins the job.  Bowles was trying to win last year so how can you blame him for that.  They knew what Hack was as a player last year so maybe Bowles had no choice but to go back to Fitz over Hack when Petty got hurt.  I mean the only film you had of live action from Hack last year was one of the worst preseason performances I've ever seen.  I mean why throw a guy who was shell shocked from college in need of major work out there the last few games to get killed.  Would he really better for it or is it something just to appease the fans?  He looked like a high school QB trying to play in the NFL last year and Bowles gets labeled incompetent because Hack was awful?  He'll get his chance to play just not yet.

[K-Ro 25]

Just now, Rockice_8 said:

It's not ballsy if he wins the job.  Bowles was trying to win last year so how can you blame him for that.  They knew what Hack was as a player last year so maybe Bowles had no choice but to go back to Fitz over Hack when Petty got hurt.  I mean the only film you had of live action from Hack last year was one of the worst preseason performances I've ever seen.  I mean why throw a guy who was shell shocked from college in need of major work out there the last few games to get killed.  Would he really better for it or is it something just to appease the fans?  He looked like a high school QB trying to play in the NFL last year and Bowles gets labeled incompetent because Hack was awful?  He'll get his chance to play just not yet.

Hack sucks. I'm speaking more towards the beginning of the season when Geno should've gotten his chance over Fitz.

[rdelaney89]

14 minutes ago, K-Ro 25 said:

Hack sucks. I'm speaking more towards the beginning of the season when Geno should've gotten his chance over Fitz.

Geno got his draw broken by a teammate and no one stood up for him, I'm not sure anyone on was losing sleep about Geno. The problem last year was we had a veteran team that had captains in place that were past their prime and Fitz had just led us to 10 wins and the best QB season a Jet has ever had. Now we have gutted the old guys which allows younger players to step up into leadership rolls. If we are out of contention I'm sure we'll see Hack or Petty but until that point you are doing a disservice to the 49 other players on the roster by playing an inferior QB.

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, doumeyer said:

Do you think Jackson will drop that far?  So many teams are in need of a QB.  The NY papers said the Giants where thinking about a QB before their 1-7 season, I guess they figure Eli only has a couple of years left. The Giants are in need of O line help real bad, also a running back, so who knows what they will do. We don't even know what we are going to do at this point of time.

Can't say for certain that he'll drop to 9-12 where ever we pick but I also wouldn't completely rule it out either.  There are a few teams that are likely to draft ahead of us.  CLE, NYG, SF, TB, CHI, IND.  That puts us around 7.  There are a bunch of other squads who will be right around us ARI, HOU, CIN, DEN, MIA, LAC.  How many QB needy teams are there really.

CLE - I'd say yes but they could shock everyone by going another direction to help Kiser if he shows promise

NYG - Again they could go QB, could like Webb enough to develop or go OL/RB early to make another run at it.

SF - They invested in Jimmy G so no way they go QB.

TB - No way they give up on Winston

CHi - They have Trubisky

INDY - Maybe they trade Luck but I doubt that

HOU - No chance they take one

CIN - I doubt they do too.  They have to go OL

MIA - I think they like Tanny enough to give him another shot

ARI - They are a big threat for a QB, not sure if they like Allen's downfield ability or Mayfield's/Jackson's legs and arm combination.  They could go Mayfield since he is similar to Maholmes last year who they liked.

DEN - They are 50/50.  Not sure if they close the book on Lynch yet.  They are still playing hard and should win some more games down the stretch.

LAC - Maybe one to groom but I think they wait to mid rounds

So realistically if we can draft before ARI as long as all three Darnold, Rosen and Jackson all come out we have a chance for Jackson to be there.  ARI could leap us to get Jackson as could many other teams but if NYG pass on a QB and make a run at the playoffs with a LT or RB we have a real chance to land Jackson.  

It's so early, so much is going to happen.  if Allen plays will down the stretch his workouts are going to wow people and he could leap back into the top 5-8 if Arian's wants a shot to groom him.

[K-Ro 25]

1 minute ago, rdelaney89 said:

Geno got his draw broken by a teammate and no one stood up for him, I'm not sure anyone on was losing sleep about Geno. The problem last year was we had a veteran team that had captains in place that were past their prime and Fitz had just led us to 10 wins and the best QB season a Jet has ever had. Now we have gutted the old guys which allows younger players to step up into leadership rolls. If we are out of contention I'm sure we'll see Hack or Petty but until that point you are doing a disservice to the 49 other players on the roster by playing an inferior QB.

It was evident that Fitz wasn't ready for the season by the second week. He needed to be pulled for Geno early and he didn't. Later in the season, using Fitz over Hack was just as dumb. Hack sucks, but you could've at least evaluated him instead of passing on a guy like Watson who I coveted because we still had a developmental QB. Or at least they thought we did.

[Rockice_8]

20 minutes ago, K-Ro 25 said:

Hack sucks. I'm speaking more towards the beginning of the season when Geno should've gotten his chance over Fitz.

Geno got punched in the jaw.  He was out for like 4 weeks to start the season otherwise he would have gotten his chance.  He didn't switch because we were winning.  The second year when things went south he went to Geno and it wasn't much better.  Geno sucked too, we all saw flashes but he never could put it all together, he was fools gold.

[Rockice_8]

2 minutes ago, K-Ro 25 said:

It was evident that Fitz wasn't ready for the season by the second week. He needed to be pulled for Geno early and he didn't. Later in the season, using Fitz over Hack was just as dumb. Hack sucks, but you could've at least evaluated him instead of passing on a guy like Watson who I coveted because we still had a developmental QB. Or at least they thought we did.

Lots of QB needy teams passed on Watson, hard to say we did because of Hack.  I mean I think they know he sucks at this point which is why he still hasn't seen the field I just think they stuck to their board as Adams was regarded as a top 3 prospect unlike Watson who was all over people's boards.

[rdelaney89]

1 hour ago, K-Ro 25 said:

It was evident that Fitz wasn't ready for the season by the second week. He needed to be pulled for Geno early and he didn't. Later in the season, using Fitz over Hack was just as dumb. Hack sucks, but you could've at least evaluated him instead of passing on a guy like Watson who I coveted because we still had a developmental QB. Or at least they thought we did.

Ah that's right, the season is only 2 weeks long. Sounds kinda silly to give up on the QB that led the team to 10 wins after week 2. The team didn't support Geno and he couldn't beat out a 33 year old journeyman QB with the most talented WR tandem we've ever had. The plan with Hack from the beginning was to Redshirt him, there is no reason to rush his development when it was blatantly clear he needed to work on his mechanics. If we threw Hack in last year he'd be playing with a bunch of players that already gave up and weren't giving 100%, what could we have possibly learned.

As for Watson, teams did not know what to make of him. Likely the reason he was the 3rd QB taken. We passed on Watson because we wanted to take the player most considered to be a top 2 player in last years draft at a position of need. Combine that with the team wanting to see how Hack developed there was no reason for us to select a QB let alone in round 1. Now we head into an offseason with plenty of FA QB options and a draft class poised to be equally as loaded as any in the last 2 decades.

[K-Ro 25]

2 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Geno got punched in the jaw.  He was out for like 4 weeks to start the season otherwise he would have gotten his chance.  He didn't switch because we were winning.  The second year when things went south he went to Geno and it wasn't much better.  Geno sucked too, we all saw flashes but he never could put it all together, he was fools gold.

This is selective memory. We went to Geno for literally a half before he tore his ACL. In the first half, he looked much improved compared to past seasons. Also, we waited until week 7 to make the change, when the season was already over.

[K-Ro 25]

36 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said:

Ah that's right, the season is only 2 weeks long. Sounds kinda silly to give up on the QB that led the team to 10 wins after week 2. The team didn't support Geno and he couldn't beat out a 33 year old journeyman QB with the most talented WR tandem we've ever had. The plan with Hack from the beginning was to Redshirt him, there is no reason to rush his development when it was blatantly clear he needed to work on his mechanics. If we threw Hack in last year he'd be playing with a bunch of players that already gave up and weren't giving 100%, what could we have possibly learned.

As for Watson, teams did not know what to make of him. Likely the reason he was the 3rd QB taken. We passed on Watson because we wanted to take the player most considered to be a top 2 player in last years draft at a position of need. Combine that with the team wanting to see how Hack developed there was no reason for us to select a QB let alone in round 1. Now we head into an offseason with plenty of FA QB options and a draft class poised to be equally as loaded as any in the last 2 decades.

lol not a quality post.

He couldn't "beat out" Fitz because it was never a competition. Bowles handed him the job. If you wanna go down this rabbit hole again.. in year 1 of Fitz, the Jets faced the easiest schedule in terms of opponent secondaries in the entire NFL. This is statistically backed up. 

Fitz was poor at his job for over a decade, and swooned an entire fan base and locker room because of 1 season. The locker room choosing Fitz was why this team crumbled. It's not like Fitz was this good QB for his entire career. We let the players run the organization because 'they' wanted Fitz. Geno should've been in at 1-3 after the Seahawks game where he looked abysmal.

Hackenberg -- all of this is BS. We're going to take a QB next year because the organization knows that they dropped the ball with Hack. We didn't take a QB this year because it would've been unethical and killed by the media if we gave up on Hack that quickly. 

The QB position is much more important than the S position. The Jets would probably be like 6-3 with Watson. I echoed for Watson and was killed on this board for it. 

Using FA to grab a QB is stupid. Alex Smith will be 34. The team is rebuilding still. No more bandaids. Cousins is starring at 25 million. No thanks. And btw, Brees isn't leaving the playoff bound Saints. Try again.

[K-Ro 25]

2 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Lots of QB needy teams passed on Watson, hard to say we did because of Hack.  I mean I think they know he sucks at this point which is why he still hasn't seen the field I just think they stuck to their board as Adams was regarded as a top 3 prospect unlike Watson who was all over people's boards.

I mean he wen't 12th. We picked 6th. He got over--analyzed since he's been highly regarded for 2-3 years as an NFL prospect. We definitely could've picked him.