The Often Overbearing, But Otherwise Ordinary Offensive Line

[Ozzy]

Just now, SteelKing728 said:

The Patriots traded for Wheatley and Lowe. They must hate their OT depth??

Yeah their backup tackles are bad, Wheatley is by far more talented than Lowe but surprised the Vikings got rid of Lowe with their OT issues.  I guess Brandel has to move back to tackle then and be a guard maybe also.

 

At the moment the most talented OL who was cut recently is Alex Leatherwood.  I would love to bring him in to play backup OG or RT.  Mayfield has starting experience as well but Leatherwood is better at guard than Mayfield who was not great at either spot.  

 

Vikings backup interior is a massive question, but is surprisingly they were comfortable enough at tackle to trade Lowe....

[VikeManDan]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I would love to bring him (Leatherwood) in to play backup OG or RT.

Bold added for context.

I think he'd be worth an add to the PS.

I think Brandel will provide the OG/OT flexibility and Schlottmann will provide that for OG/OC. I think we'll ultimately keep 8 OL on the roster for Tuesday's deadline. Who knows what happens after that.

[swede700]

3 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

Bold added for context.

I think he'd be worth an add to the PS.

I think Brandel will provide the OG/OT flexibility and Schlottmann will provide that for OG/OC. I think we'll ultimately keep 8 OL on the roster for Tuesday's deadline. Who knows what happens after that.

Well, KAM and KOC do seem to like to bring in failed 1st rd picks. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by swede700

[VikeManDan]

Just now, swede700 said:

Well, KAM and KOC do seem to like to bring in failed 1st rd picks. 

Only turns 25 in January, makes me smile knowing the Raiders could've had Darrisaw and they made the wrong choice. 

You've been pretty firm on your stance with OL play, perhaps he just needed more time to get acclimated to the NFL game. I think the PS would be a great spot for him, with that being said I won't lose sleep over it if we don't add him. 😉

[SemperFeist]

If the Bears would rather incur double the cap hit by releasing him over keeping him. Leatherwood is very likely not even worth a look.

[Ozzy]

5 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

If the Bears would rather incur double the cap hit by releasing him over keeping him. Leatherwood is very likely not even worth a look.

You have proof that was the case?  You even watch him in the preseason?  

[JDBrocks]

7 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You have proof that was the case?  You even watch him in the preseason?  

yep. he was mediocre to bad.

[JDBrocks]

 

 

[Ozzy]

 

40 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

yep. he was mediocre to bad.

What are you talking about?  The 1st play on this video he got beat pretty badly but out of the total 47 or so plays maybe four he was not great.  

 

1st play as discussed

17th gave up pressure but was also the play design and he had to get out of there quickly.  

29th gave up some pressure

36th looks like a false start on him

 

That is bad?  No it is not, he showed good versatility at guard being able to double and come off the double and reach to another defender.  Long arms which is great, good mobility and can move around well when asked to pull.  Is not as abused as much as when he was a tackle.  More stable and sound...he was not bad in the preseason at all.

 

I think it is more to do with saving money and paying $2-$3 mil a year they own Leatherwood or something when they own Ja'Tyre Carter $900,000 to around $1 mil a year for the next fours years.  One is way cheaper than the other and both are just backups.  Then they got Logan Stenberg as a backup only paid $1 a year for this next year.  So both are cheaper than Leatherwood and maybe they just wanted to save some money.

 

That does not mean Leatherwood was bad at guard and did not deserve to make the team, he will make another roster how much you want to bet on that.  Backup sure but backup is better than out of the league, and nice to see him at guard which is where he should have played all along.

 

And in no way are the Vikings backup guards better than he is.  Brandel is maybe but not even sure about that honestly, and Brandel got his butt kicked as much as Leatherwood did at tackle but only had 3 starts, Leatherwood had 17.  Just one is a high first round pick, the other a 6th round pick so those expectations do matter as does the pay they get.  Who is the 2nd guard on the team I have no clue honestly because no one has stood out in that spot and no way you put Udoh there either.  Jack Snyder?  Not sure he even makes the team.  

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Ozzy

[swede700]

He did okay on a lot of it, but I wouldn't say he did even close to great...I saw several where he was holding (yet didn't get called for it) or where he wasn't really aware on where the play was going so he looked kind of lost and quite a few where he didn't really get a push, he held guys off to a degree but against a defender better than Taven Bryan, he would have gotten blown up. 

The Vikings' backups may not be better than him, but he isn't enough of an upgrade that I'd really seriously consider him.  If they were to do so, fine, but I certainly wouldn't expect any different results from what we've seen from our own backups.

[JDBrocks]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

What are you talking about?  The 1st play on this video he got beat pretty badly but out of the total 47 or so plays maybe four he was not great.  

 

1st play as discussed

17th gave up pressure but was also the play design and he had to get out of there quickly.  

29th gave up some pressure

36th looks like a false start on him

 

That is bad?  No it is not, he showed good versatility at guard being able to double and come off the double and reach to another defender.  Long arms which is great, good mobility and can move around well when asked to pull.  Is not as abused as much as when he was a tackle.  More stable and sound...he was not bad in the preseason at all.

 

I think it is more to do with saving money and paying $2-$3 mil a year they own Leatherwood or something when they own Ja'Tyre Carter $900,000 to around $1 mil a year for the next fours years.  One is way cheaper than the other and both are just backups.  Then they got Logan Stenberg as a backup only paid $1 a year for this next year.  So both are cheaper than Leatherwood and maybe they just wanted to save some money.

 

That does not mean Leatherwood was bad at guard and did not deserve to make the team, he will make another roster how much you want to bet on that.  Backup sure but backup is better than out of the league, and nice to see him at guard which is where he should have played all along.

 

And in no way are the Vikings backup guards better than he is.  Brandel is maybe but not even sure about that honestly, and Brandel got his butt kicked as much as Leatherwood did at tackle but only had 3 starts, Leatherwood had 17.  Just one is a high first round pick, the other a 6th round pick so those expectations do matter as does the pay they get.  Who is the 2nd guard on the team I have no clue honestly because no one has stood out in that spot and no way you put Udoh there either.  Jack Snyder?  Not sure he even makes the team.  

 

Ozzy, I said mediocre to bad. I didn't just say bad. I implore you to read.

He did not stand out at all, and routinely played until he thought he was done rather than through the whistle. There wasn't one single "wow" play on that cut up playing against 3rd string/practice squad level guys. The Bears have injury problems at guard and were still willing to pay double what it would cost to keep him on the roster in order to cut him. I know you loved him as a prospect, but he hasn't and likely won't pan out as a pro. You still talk about him like what made him a good prospect is important, but it isn't. He has long arms and is looking for work.

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, swede700 said:

He did okay on a lot of it, but I wouldn't say he did even close to great...I saw several where he was holding (yet didn't get called for it) or where he wasn't really aware on where the play was going so he looked kind of lost and quite a few where he didn't really get a push, he held guys off to a degree but against a defender better than Taven Bryan, he would have gotten blown up. 

The Vikings' backups may not be better than him, but he isn't enough of an upgrade that I'd really seriously consider him.  If they were to do so, fine, but I certainly wouldn't expect any different results from what we've seen from our own backups.

The Minnesota Vikings got basically destroyed the first two preseason games on the OL, the last game they actually ran the ball and threw it ok.  That is only because they were playing arguably the worst roster in football with the Arizona Cardinals.  So to be like oh everything is fine on the OL is a joke and to not be looking for someone to bring in as depth on the OL is ridiculous.

 

Their backups are wildly suspect, where say the Bears are cutting guys the Vikings could no question use.  That shows one team has depth the other does not, and now the Vikings trade Lowe so they better do something unless they think Brandel can fill all backup positions that they need and Udoh the rest along with their center Schlottmann who was not some dominating player by any means in his time in the preseason.  

 

17 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

Ozzy, I said mediocre to bad. I didn't just say bad. I implore you to read.

He did not stand out at all, and routinely played until he thought he was done rather than through the whistle. There wasn't one single "wow" play on that cut up playing against 3rd string/practice squad level guys. The Bears have injury problems at guard and were still willing to pay double what it would cost to keep him on the roster in order to cut him. I know you loved him as a prospect, but he hasn't and likely won't pan out as a pro. You still talk about him like what made him a good prospect is important, but it isn't. He has long arms and is looking for work.

Sure at the moment, I was pretty wrong about Leatherwood but I also try not to totally write off a guys career with him only playing two years so far in the league.  Maybe his career is over, I doubt it.  As for OL "wow" plays, one could argue no one on the Bears OL made a wow play in that game and even Hall of Fame OL rarely make wow plays.  Usually it is pretty standard and as long as the team is moving the football and the QB is being protected that is the point.  The times where some OL totally levels a guy is pretty rare even for the best OL in the game.  They are usually not going to make wow plays in a football game and the guys who play through the whistle one could arguably count on one hand honestly.  That is even more rare and now a days you will get penalized big time for that anyway.  

 

The Vikings starting interior has some massive issues, or at least did last year big time.  They were not good, and the fact the Vikings have no real savior behind them if even a starter goes out, well if the starters are that bad think about the backups....thus would be nice to have quality there not just some guy with no real long term future.  

[swede700]

11 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

So to be like oh everything is fine on the OL is a joke  

Tell me where anyone has said that. 

[VikeManDan]

Seems like this thread will continue to be relevant. Draft capital has been invested in this unit we've just gotten pretty bad ROI. 

Hard to overcome one of the best DL units with your 2nd and eventually 3rd string LTs and back up center.

Darrisaw (1st) needs to stay healthy. I hope the week off and mini-bye gets him ready for week 3.

Cleveland (2nd) is a JAG and don't see the need to even entertain a contract extension at this point.

Bradbury (1st) could be done with his back injury for all we know. Thank goodness the extension wasn't crippling but the early returns are obviously not great.

Ingram (2nd) is a struggling young player trying to find his footing and some semblance of consistency.

O'Neill (2nd) thankfully he appears to have returned to form after his achilles injury.

 

[VikeManDan]

Not sure if it is demeanor, talent, scheme, or some other factor but we need to become bigger bullies in the trenches. Literally and figuratively. This article is a link to someone who has compiled the height and weight averages of NFL OL on active rosters the last two seasons (2022 and 2023).

https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-weight-of-nfl-offensive-linemen/

Height - 6'4.87" round up to 6'5"
Weight - 314.94 round up to 315lbs

(Heights and weights taken from ESPN which matched what the Vikings have on their site.)

Darrisaw - Average/average
Cleveland - Above average/below average
Bradbury - Below average/below average
Ingram - Below average/below average
O'Neill - Above average/below average

Obviously correlation does not equal causation otherwise teams would just draft the tallest and heaviest OL. Something to ponder perhaps, it feels like we don't necessarily have a tone-setter along the OL.

Perhaps I'm just bored! 😅