***Spoiler Thread*** Avengers: Infinity Wars

[TXsteeler]

6 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

If Peter Parker's scene as he is fading away didn't get you because you already knew he'd be back because they are making a sequel to Homecoming, then you were looking for reasons to not like it.

Not at all, it was impossible for me to care about his pain because I knew he would be back.

Death has to mean something, these movies disrespect it so much that there are zero stakes period. Infinity War means nothing. You can skip it between Black Panther 1 and 2 dude.

Winter Soldier effected an entire TV series, Avengers effected mutliple shows (to a lesser degree) Civil War effected several movies, IW 1 can be skipped the same way the writers skipped showing the battle between Thanos and the asgardians.

[Glen]

19 minutes ago, Manny/Patrick said:

Maybe he sent them to the Browns?

Fate worse than death

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, TXsteeler said:

They beat Heimdall, Loki, Thor, and the hulk. That's arguably a stronger force than the rest of the hero's combined.

 

1 hour ago, TXsteeler said:

Do you disagree that the most critical fight was Thanos vs the Asgardian ship?

Why wasn't that shown? 

This criticism I don't get at all.    

Let's look at what we know, what was said in the movie:

1.  Thor, Loki, Heimdall & Hulk just came off a battle in which their entire world was destroyed.   In which he had to kill his sister, but which exacted a terrible price.   They were spent from that battle.    Now, you can criticize the fact that people wouldn't know that without watching Thor: Ragnarok - except Thor himself broke down what had just happened.   It just happened after the fact, when the Avengers found him.   It also showed why he was basically a broken man now.    That was just an amazing choice, and really added to the unexpected brilliant performance by Hemsworth (comedy yes, this kind of tragedy/pathos?  No way I saw this coming from him).

2.  Meanwhile, we know that Thanos and his Black Order were all there, it wasn't just Thanos.  And his army minions we saw in the aftermath.    So, we had Thanos, who was able to take on the GOTG (minus Gamora), Spidey, Strange & Iron Man (with 3 stones, not 1, fair enough, but then I'm getting to the next part)...and who crushed Hulk in less than 2 minutes.   And we had Thor without his hammer.  That's a MUCH different Thor than we've seen.  And we see the difference when he gets the Ax - so it's not like we can't figure out the difference from this movie alone).

3.  We also see from the Black Order's fights that they are formidable - it took Cap, Bucky, BP, Patriot, Falcon, the Wakandan forces, General Okoye, the tribes to keep 2 of 3 of the 4 Black Order fighters at bay, when combined with Thanos' army (who were present on the ship).    And the tide didn't turn 2x until a.  Scarlet Witch showed up, the woman who Okoye said "why has she been inside all this time"? and B. Super-powered Thor, Groot & Rocket showed up.    And that's without Ebony Maw present, who I'd argue was clearly the most formidable of the 4.   Thanos can take out Hulk in 2 mins, who clearly wasn't in the game by "we have a Hulk" line, no Mjolnir for Thor, and then add those 4?  And it's NOT obvious how Thanos & co. wiped them out, so we needed to see that?   Come on.   

4.  And just in case it wasn't clear - Banner clearly tells Stark & Strange that Thanos is already the biggest Bad in the Universe....before anyone knew he had more than 1 stone.

Now, all of that - that was IN the movie.  It didn't require anyone to watch a prior movie(s) to know.   Would it help to watch the other ones before?  Absolutely.  But man, I do not get the notion that they needed to show the battle for the Tesseract.   It was plain as day how Thanos and his Black Order, facing a depleted, worn out Hulk/Asgardians, could wipe them out.     

You're a football fan - if a loaded team on 2 weeks rest got to face a loaded team that played the week before and then played on ThNF, and with their best player no longer at full strength, and the others nicked up, how the outcome would go?   Is it really that hard to figure out?   I say no, not even close.   If that's the case, then you don't need the scene.  And frankly, it's not much of an argument. 

The part that's different about how Infinity Wars dealt with Thanos / Black Order vs. Asgardians / Hulk - we only learn from subsequent scenes how it was so easy.   But they clearly showed it.   You just want them to show it before, in a neat, "Once Upon A Time" to "And They Live Happily Ever After" order.     A young adult and and adult audience doesn't need this.   In fact, the way they pulled this part off, it only adds to the amazing storytelling IMO.   

_____________________________________________________________

Now, if you want to criticize Heimdall sending Hulk instead of Loki, I can get behind that.  If it's just a flaw, it's a flaw.   No movie is perfect.   As someone who works in emergency response, I can also see the point that as he's dying, Heimdall may not be into an in-depth analysis of how best to use his powers - it's a snap decision, and in those cases, imperfect but plausible (in their mind) choices often get made.  This happens ALL the time in emergency / crisis situations.     Before you say he's a superhero, he's a superhero who's mortally wounded...likely the very first time that's happened  (Loki just put him in stasis with ice, pretty clear Loki wasn't trying to kill him before, since he kept him around afterwards in later movies).     It's safe to say this is a crisis that he's unlikely faced, and mortally wounded, making the wrong call isn't that far fetched.   And given Banner is from Earth and is an Avenger, the team Thor belongs with, well, I can see it.  Still, if you want to call it a flaw, no worries.   Again, though, no movie is perfect.   Even the great ones.

______________________________________________________________

Listen, I get it's hard to stand on an island with a contrarian opinion when there's so much love.   That actually takes courage, and I respect that.  And if you say you're being contrarian for legit reasons, I have no reasons to believe otherwise.  It would be boring if we all agreed.   But you also started out in your OP with the "if you like this, you can only be a fanboy" take.   Then you start painting others as taking unfair shots at you - do you see the irony there?   Your own actions created that perception.   When you have takes like "why didn't they show this scene more" or "why didn't Strange get busy 20 years early with Thanos' mom", you have to be open to a dialogue on where they can be explained.  Because they can be.   

We don't have to agree, that's cool.  But maybe look hard at your stance - some of the positions I see, some of them are incredibly easy to disagree with - because your notion that these scenes have to be explicitly laid out, they don't.   The Thanos / Black Order vs. Asgard/Hulk  choice can be shown really easily, only from stuff that happened later in this movie, and not from the others.  It's just a very different way of letting the audiences fill in the blanks.  It's not paint-by-numbers.  That choice and how they filled in the gaps..it's brilliant IMO.   Your main objections break down to the need to show scenes they chose to pass on, and some alternate reality scenarios that you think are better - but which we also know always come with consequences.   You're entitled to your take, but I'll take movies that let audiences fill in the blanks -  it allows for more angles to be covered, because the audience can then see a wider story by the end.   

No movie is perfect, even the greats - which I'd put this after a 2nd viewing yesterday (woohoo at wife on vacation).   I'm still floored by the achievement they accomplished - and the notion that somehow, people say A4 is even better (shooting's finished, so not just PR hype).   That's mind-blowing and does not compute. 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Broncofan

[TXsteeler]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

This criticism I don't get at all.    

Let's look at what we know, what was said in the movie:

1.  Thor, Loki, Heimdall & Hulk just came off a battle in which their entire world was destroyed.   In which he had to kill his sister, but which exacted a terrible price.   They were spent from that battle.    Now, you can criticize the fact that people wouldn't know that without watching Thor: Ragnarok - except Thor himself broke down what had just happened.    And why he was basically a broken man now.   

2.  Meanwhile, we know that Thanos and his Black Order were all there.    So, we had Thanos, who was able to take on the GOTG (minus Gamora), Spidey, Strange & Iron Man (with 3 stones, not 1, fair enough, but then I'm getting to the next part)...and who crushed Hulk in less than 2 minutes.   And we had Thor without his hammer.  That's a MUCH different Thor than we've seen.  And we see the difference when he gets the Ax - so it's not like we can't figure out the difference from this movie alone).

3.  We also see from the Black Order's fights that they are formidable - it took Cap, Bucky, BP, Patriot, Falcon, the Wakandan forces, General Okoye, the tribes to keep 2 of 3 of the 4 Black Order fighters at bay, when combined with Thanos' army (who were present on the ship).    And the tide didn't turn 2x until a.  Scarlet Witch showed up, the woman who Okoye said "why has she been inside all this time"? and B. Super-powered Thor, Groot & Rocket showed up.    

4.  And just in case it wasn't clear - Banner clearly tells Stark & Strange that Thanos is already the biggest Bad in the Universe....before anyone knew he had more than 1 stone.

Now, all of that - that was IN the movie.  It didn't require anyone to watch a prior movie(s) to know.   Would it help to watch the other ones before?  Absolutely.  But man, I do not get the notion that they needed to show the battle for the Tesseract.   It was plain as day how Thanos and his Black Order, facing a depleted, worn out Hulk/Asgardians, could wipe them out.   

You're a football fan - if a loaded team on 2 weeks rest got to face a loaded team that played the week before and then played on ThNF, and with their best player no longer at full strength, and the others nicked up, how the outcome would go?   Is it really that hard to figure out?   I say no, not even close.  

The part that's different about how Infinity Wars dealt with Thanos / Black Order vs. Asgardians / Hulk - we only learn from subsequent scenes how it was so easy.   But they clearly showed it.   You just want them to show it before, in a neat, "Once Upon A Time" to "And They Live Happily Ever After" order.     A young adult and and adult audience doesn't need this.   In fact, the way they pulled this part off, it only adds to the amazing storytelling IMO.   

_____________________________________________________________

Now, if you want to criticize Heimdall sending Hulk instead of Loki, I can get behind that.  If it's just a flaw, it's a flaw.   No movie is perfect.   As someone who works in emergency response, I can also see the point that as he's dying, Heimdall may not be into an in-depth analysis of how best to use his powers - it's a snap decision, and in those cases, imperfect but plausible (in their mind) choices often get made.  This happens ALL the time in emergency / crisis situations.     Before you say he's a superhero, he's a superhero who's mortally wounded...likely the very first time that's happened  (Loki just put him in stasis with ice, pretty clear Loki wasn't trying to kill him before, since he kept him around afterwards in later movies).     It's safe to say this is a crisis that he's unlikely faced, and mortally wounded, making the wrong call isn't that far fetched.   And given Banner is from Earth and is an Avenger, the team Thor belongs with, well, I can see it.  Still, if you want to call it a flaw, no worries.   Again, though, no movie is perfect.   Even the great ones.

Listen, I get it's hard to stand on an island with a contrarian opinion when there's so much love.   And if you say you're being contrarian for legit reasons, I have no reasons to believe otherwise.  It would be boring if we all agreed.   But you also started out in your OP with the "if you like this, you can only be a fanboy" take.   Then you start painting others as taking unfair shots at you - do you see the irony there?   Your own actions created that perception.   When you have takes like "why didn't they show this scene more" or "why didn't Strange get busy 20 years early with Thanos' mom", you have to be open to a dialogue on where they can be explained.  Because they can be.   

We don't have to agree, that's cool.  But maybe look hard at your stance - some of the positions I see, some of them are incredibly easy to disagree with - because your notion that these scenes have to be explicitly laid out, they don't.   The Thanos / Black Order vs. Asgard/Hulk  choice can be shown really easily, only from stuff that happened later in this movie, and not from the others.  It's just a very different way of letting the audiences fill in the blanks.  It's not paint-by-numbers.  That choice and how they filled in the gaps..it's brilliant IMO.

I can understand why they are able to overpower the asgardians and hulk but why were they able to capture Loki? Why isnt that shown? The fight IS the most critical of the movie, on that we agree right? I'm fine with them losing but the way they are shown to lose it doesn't make sense that Loki was unable to hide. It could have been done better pretty easily.

[Broncofan]

12 minutes ago, TXsteeler said:

I can understand why they are able to overpower the asgardians and hulk but why were they able to capture Loki? Why isnt that shown? The fight IS the most critical of the movie, on that we agree right? I'm fine with them losing but the way they are shown to lose it doesn't make sense that Loki was unable to hide. It could have been done better pretty easily.

That's an easy one - Loki was on the comms, sending the distress signal.  That removed his ability to be hidden - Thanos & the Black Order knew he was on the ship.   And with that knowledge - they don't have to find him.  They just have to wipe everyone out, and threaten Thor's life - as we saw, Loki was willing to give up the Tesseract for his brother, showing up would have zero problem doing that.   Remember, Loki said "brother, the sun will still shine again on our faces" - so he thought Hulk would turn the tide.  It didn't.   So not showing Loki getting captured, seeing how he was willing to give up the Tesseract for Thor, tells me coming out of hiding, not at all a hard call to make.  Loki made a tougher call on-screen.

You say you now understand how the Asgardians/Hulk got overpowered.   I think that's because of the explanations.   Does the above explanation help?   Again, it's forcing audiences to use info gained later to better understand what happened then.  But that's the highest form of storytelling.  It's freaking brilliantly done here IMO in that instance.  

Listen, I respect the contrarian take.  It's not easy to be on an island.  Just for that, I'm ONLY going to kill half the Steeler population if I ever get the Infinity Gauntlet, ok?   But a contrarian take is meant to produce real dialogue.   That doesn't happen when you label those who disagree with you as fanboys.  So I'm only sparing half the Steelers, if you are willing to really listen to the other side, and stop saying "you're just fanboys".   If you aren't, I'll have wipe out the entire Steeler fanbase (except @BlaqOptic  and a few others, they have to be able to tell others what happened here, and I know Blaq won't get spoiled), and be forced to keep a full fanbase like CIN's.  You don't want that.  I don't even want that lol. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Broncofan

[seminoles1]

2 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Well, there is a huge cast in the film. That's the the compromise when you have a running time limit. It's going to have to jump around. For as many actors that you need to give screen time, I thought they did a good job. Wait until the second part is released. Then watch the films as one.

And that hurts the movie.  It doesn't give you a second to mourn the characters who did die or process the ramifications of what is happening.  I get why that was the case, but that doesn't make it better.

The complaints here remind me of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1.

[Mox]

1 minute ago, seminoles1 said:

And that hurts the movie.  It doesn't give you a second to mourn the characters who did die or process the ramifications of what is happening.  I get why that was the case, but that doesn't make it better.

The complaints here remind me of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1.

I wasn't around here back then but I can see that. Think this felt a lot more epic and meaningful than most part 1's do though. Deathly Hallows and Hunger Games were both kind of boring at times.

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, TXsteeler said:

If they do a large time gap between movies that would actually be good writing but they can't unless pretty much every other MCU character also happened to die to the snap because they can't just age half the actors 5 years in all their TV/Netflix shows and keep the rest the same age.

Aging people 5 years is nothing...

There's definitely going to be a time gap between the 2 movies.  It's all but confirmed.

[Broncofan]

59 minutes ago, Manny/Patrick said:

Maybe he sent them to the Browns?

 

39 minutes ago, Gmen4ev said:

Fate worse than death

Well then there's no coming back for those ppl now.   Some things you can't come back from.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Broncofan

[TecmoSuperJoe]

33 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

And that hurts the movie.  It doesn't give you a second to mourn the characters who did die or process the ramifications of what is happening.  I get why that was the case, but that doesn't make it better.

The complaints here remind me of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1.

I think it's worth the trade off. Since as a consumer this is what I wanted. So I wasn't going to complain about it unless the juggling act was handled really bad, which it wasn't. Same thing when Avengers 1 came out. I knew this would be the case going in.

The characters died at the end of half a film. This could have been a solo superhero part one movie, and the same thing could have happened. Don't think that really has anything to do with the overflowing cast in the movie. The aftermath in the movie is yet to come. Again, it's a two part film. Don't need an epilogue for a movie that is split in two parts.

Edited April 30, 2018 by PapaShogun

[dtait93]

I’m happy they killed off (or made go away for a little bit) all the characters that they did. That means there won’t be as much jumping around and they can focus on fewer storylines and the characters we won’t see in the future anymore. I’m glad we’re getting 1 final film with Cap and Tony. I’m looking forward to how their relationship rekindles after CW and now IW with the fate of their friends and half the universe on the line. Most thought that IW would be the passing of the torch from the original heroes to the newer ones. Nice twist that the next Avengers will be when that takes place instead.

They will be stronger and more formidable in the next film given that they won’t be spread as thin. They will instead have Iron Man and Hulk along with Ant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel and the remaining heroes in Wakanda (Thor, Captain America, Black Widow, War Machine, Rocket, Okoye, and Nebula) all together.

Edited April 30, 2018 by dtait93

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, TXsteeler said:

Do you disagree that the most critical fight was Thanos vs the Asgardian ship?

Why wasn't that shown? Why not cut out other stuff, like all of the minutes spent wasting time on vision and scarlet witch being in love?

That wasn't the most critical fight of the film. Even if it was shown in it's entirety. The Asgardians aren't really people we're invested in or care about. Same with Xandar. Not to the degree of Tony and his gang.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, dtait93 said:

The only way I think it could have been a lot better is if they split it into 2 movies like you suggested. They could have developed the Black Order a little more and not rushed it as much, but even then they still smashed it out of the park imo. I loved it.

The only gripe I have is Hulk being scared or whatever he was to come out. All Hulk ever does is look for a battle that he can prove he’s stronger in and the battle in Wakanda was the perfect opportunity. I was really looking forward to him going ape on the alien army when the trailer came out and it was a huge let down he basically wasn’t in the movie at all. That is the biggest missed opportunity imo and they better make up for it in the next Avengers.

Hulk is going through a character arc in the narrative. Which I think gives him more dimension. He's never gotten his *** kicked like that, and he's still a child-like being regardless of how menacing he can look. I'm excited to see where the character goes. The Russo brothers could have done the predictable thing and just have Banner change again, but I was pleasantly surprised with the new direction. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by PapaShogun

[TXsteeler]

11 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

That wasn't the most critical fight of the film. Even if it was shown in it's entirety. The Asgardians aren't really people we're invested in or care about. Same with Xandar. Not to the degree of Tony and his gang.

That's irrelevant. The last time they had a chance to win was before Thanos got the space stone from loki, that's the last time they had a chance to win.

 

[TXsteeler]

28 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Aging people 5 years is nothing...

There's definitely going to be a time gap between the 2 movies.  It's all but confirmed.

Ok so all of Peter's friends in high school will be graduating college by the time he comes back. MJ is engaged to someone else and is on her way to law school.

Every single Netflix show now has to devote their entire next season to dealing with the snap as half the characters moved on and half are coming back from death.