Official Pistons Thread: Offseason

[General Tso]

Being a Pistons fan.. is something else.

[catcheryea]

6 guards

[catcheryea]

wait lmao they got $2 million for balsa?

what is going on in los angeles

[MOSteelers56]

I like the moves so far. We’ve improved the shooting and defense. Monte Morris will take Killian’s minutes. We’ve given up nothing but cap space. 

[winitall]

Honestly given the foolishness by the Rockets, I’m pretty happy with how this offseason has gone so far. I think they obviously have a couple moves left to make so we will see, but punting on a couple expiring deals seems a lot better than throwing money at some of these options. 

[Sllim Pickens]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:40 PM, winitall said:

Honestly given the foolishness by the Rockets, I’m pretty happy with how this offseason has gone so far. I think they obviously have a couple moves left to make so we will see, but punting on a couple expiring deals seems a lot better than throwing money at some of these options. 

Thing is, it always seems like we keep punting our cap space down the line.  I think we have done some good things as far as adding shooting and defense but not enough positives to make us much better.  And we still have a bunch of pieces that don't really work well together.  It just feels like we don't have a direction and are just making moves and we never seem to do anything worth while with our cap space.  

I think Houston overpaid FVV but also they needed a veteran PG to lead that young team so it makes sense.  Plus its just a 3 year deal.  The Brooks deal was bad though, and am glad we didn't do something like that.  

[catcheryea]

44 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Thing is, it always seems like we keep punting our cap space down the line.  I think we have done some good things as far as adding shooting and defense but not enough positives to make us much better.  And we still have a bunch of pieces that don't really work well together.  It just feels like we don't have a direction and are just making moves and we never seem to do anything worth while with our cap space.  

I think Houston overpaid FVV but also they needed a veteran PG to lead that young team so it makes sense.  Plus its just a 3 year deal.  The Brooks deal was bad though, and am glad we didn't do something like that.  

the first sentence is definitely true because troy has no clue how to spend his money in constructive ways and i think it's funny that after the draft they talked about having defense be their identity and that's why they wanted sasser and asuar, but then the only two moves they've made in free agency are acquiring two guys at the same positions as their draft picks who are just floor spacers and don't play defense. i guess they can mix and match lineups a little more now but it's not like there's two guys at each position that all compliment each other. they basically have 10 players at the three perimeter spots and there are more two and three man lineups from that group that absolutely can't play together if you want both shooting and defense than ones that give you a good mix of both. i'd be fine with everyone except cade, ivey, bojan, and ausar not playing every night and actually having to earn minutes but if that's the case i don't know that finding a third bench shooter is the best use of cap space

but in troy's defense, the only clear position of need in the starting lineup is a legitimate 3 and d forward and i'm guessing they figured out jerami was getting way overpaid by portland and cam was just going to straight up re-sign. after that, the next two best options, unless i'm forgetting someone, were kuzma and grant williams. kuzma isn't really that guy and i wouldn't want to be paying him that much to not be that guy, and unless you think williams is going to hold down that spot for several years, he's also an rfa and i'm not sure that's the direction i'd want to go

i've heard a couple people who may or may not have real sources say they've tried everything to dump bagley's contract except offering him with bojan, but literally nobody wants him (this isn't shocking either way). so honestly if worst comes to worst and they have to start the season with all 4 bigs, just tell bagley and wiseman only one of them is getting 12 minutes a night as the backup and they have to do other **** than calling for the ball in the post, i'd be fine with that.

overall, i think at least the spacing should be a lot better this year, and if they don't commit to having a big planted on both blocks, that will open up the floor for cade, ivey, and ausar, so hopefully the offense takes a jump. but as it stands, i expect the defense to be pretty terrible again

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, catcheryea said:

the first sentence is definitely true because troy has no clue how to spend his money in constructive ways and i think it's funny that after the draft they talked about having defense be their identity and that's why they wanted sasser and asuar, but then the only two moves they've made in free agency are acquiring two guys at the same positions as their draft picks who are just floor spacers and don't play defense. i guess they can mix and match lineups a little more now but it's not like there's two guys at each position that all compliment each other. they basically have 10 players at the three perimeter spots and there are more two and three man lineups from that group that absolutely can't play together if you want both shooting and defense than ones that give you a good mix of both. i'd be fine with everyone except cade, ivey, bojan, and ausar not playing every night and actually having to earn minutes but if that's the case i don't know that finding a third bench shooter is the best use of cap space

but in troy's defense, the only clear position of need in the starting lineup is a legitimate 3 and d forward and i'm guessing they figured out jerami was getting way overpaid by portland and cam was just going to straight up re-sign. after that, the next two best options, unless i'm forgetting someone, were kuzma and grant williams. kuzma isn't really that guy and i wouldn't want to be paying him that much to not be that guy, and unless you think williams is going to hold down that spot for several years, he's also an rfa and i'm not sure that's the direction i'd want to go

i've heard a couple people who may or may not have real sources say they've tried everything to dump bagley's contract except offering him with bojan, but literally nobody wants him (this isn't shocking either way). so honestly if worst comes to worst and they have to start the season with all 4 bigs, just tell bagley and wiseman only one of them is getting 12 minutes a night as the backup and they have to do other **** than calling for the ball in the post, i'd be fine with that.

overall, i think at least the spacing should be a lot better this year, and if they don't commit to having a big planted on both blocks, that will open up the floor for cade, ivey, and ausar, so hopefully the offense takes a jump. but as it stands, i expect the defense to be pretty terrible again

I like the move for Morris actually.  Someone with some experience and provides more offense than Hayes off the bench and similar defensively.  Having shooting around Cade and Ivey is definitely important for their development as playmakers so adding shooters definitely helps.  I would have liked this deal a lot more if the Harris deal didn't happen. 

Harris I think I have expressed my feelings on enough.  I just dont get spending money that way.  If we are going to bail a team out and allow them to keep their team together, at least get something of value back.  

I agree that there is not a lot of options out there in free agency.  I agree on not overpaying anyone like Kuzma or Grant Williams.  Cam was the best option, the only other thing to look into would be Miles Bridges but even as a Spartan I struggle with rooting for him so not sure I want him on my team.  But still he would be a perfect fit at the 3/4 for us. 

I am shocked that people are that low on Bagley.  Maybe I just have paid close enough attention but still think he is a good enough depth big on the right team and his contract isn't awful for that role.  But its bad when he likely shouldn't see minutes with us next year.  Our DNP/deep bench makes up like 60% of our roster now with Wiseman, Bagley, Harris, Hayes, and Burks.  That group of guys should get a combined 15 mins a game, although they will likely get more than that.  

[catcheryea]

16 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I am shocked that people are that low on Bagley.  Maybe I just have paid close enough attention but still think he is a good enough depth big on the right team and his contract isn't awful for that role.  But its bad when he likely shouldn't see minutes with us next year.  Our DNP/deep bench makes up like 60% of our roster now with Wiseman, Bagley, Harris, Hayes, and Burks.  That group of guys should get a combined 15 mins a game, although they will likely get more than that.  

he's fine for what he is, but all the little things he does or doesn't do add up to a much bigger problem. he's always hurt so you can't even count on him to play a small role consistently, but when he isn't hurt you can't use him to close games because he doesn't defend or rebound well enough. he can't play the 5 because he's too frail, so you'd have to put him on the floor with another big, but he also doesn't shoot so the other guy also has to be the floor spacer, and he's not a smart enough player or good enough passer to be anything but a play finisher so he doesn't fit with any team who wants to play with a lot of movement

but the worst thing is the other team would be on the hook for another year at the full $13 million or whatever it is. if he was an expiring, or there was a team option or only a small guarantee for 24-25, or even if they front loaded the deal so he's making like $7 million next year, he'd probably be pretty easy to move off of, because lots of bad teams would be willing to eat the money for a fun bench scoring big who can catch lobs but that's really the extent of his value

i thought a guard rotation of cade, ivey, sasser, and burks, with killian as the absolute last resort would be okay, but i really don't know how you play 7 guys in two spots. and even if they get rid of killian and burks (and i really like burks but he's the only other obvious trade candidate), cade is the only one who can play with all the other guys. ivey can play with cade and probably sasser, but you can't run out a backcourts of morris/harris, morris/sasser, sasser/harris, or ivey/harris

[MOSteelers56]

On 7/3/2023 at 1:07 PM, catcheryea said:

i thought a guard rotation of cade, ivey, sasser, and burks, with killian as the absolute last resort would be okay, but i really don't know how you play 7 guys in two spots. and even if they get rid of killian and burks (and i really like burks but he's the only other obvious trade candidate), cade is the only one who can play with all the other guys. ivey can play with cade and probably sasser, but you can't run out a backcourts of morris/harris, morris/sasser, sasser/harris, or ivey/harris

Sasser might see some time with the G-League team. I also think there’s another move to be made. I doubt all 7 of those guys are with the team on opening night. At least I hope there’s another move to be made. 

[MOSteelers56]

Is Dallas a match for Bagley? They need a Center and he’s that. I don’t know if they’d be interested/could afford him, though. Portland matched Thybulle, so they’ve got some cap, but would they be interested in a fairly weak defender behind fairly weak perimeter defenders? Or shoot, what about Wiseman?

[General Tso]

13 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Is Dallas a match for Bagley? They need a Center and he’s that. I don’t know if they’d be interested/could afford him, though. Portland matched Thybulle, so they’ve got some cap, but would they be interested in a fairly weak defender behind fairly weak perimeter defenders? Or shoot, what about Wiseman?

If they want to just take a salary dump, sounds good to me, there isn't room for both Bagley and Wiseman on this team from my view.

On a related note, I wish we got in on that Grant Williams trade. Spurs took on Bullock's salary and got a pick swap from Dallas in 2030 which could be valuable, but since we took on Joe Harris, we couldn't. This is why I didn't want to just jump on Harris day 1 of FA.

[Sllim Pickens]

23 minutes ago, General Tso said:

If they want to just take a salary dump, sounds good to me, there isn't room for both Bagley and Wiseman on this team from my view.

On a related note, I wish we got in on that Grant Williams trade. Spurs took on Bullock's salary and got a pick swap from Dallas in 2030 which could be valuable, but since we took on Joe Harris, we couldn't. This is why I didn't want to just jump on Harris day 1 of FA.

Yeah, we didn't get nearly enough compensation for taking on Harris.  Which sadly I think means they expect Harris to be part of the rotation somehow.  

I doubt Dallas takes on Bagley or Wiseman.  It just clogs the paint and they just drafted Lively who is younger and should be better.  Plus they got Holmes which is probably equivalent to Bagley at worst since he outproduced him when they were both in Sac. There aren't many teams IMO that will take that on.  Will have to be a team worse than us with cap space which isn't many options.  I dont think anyone takes them on as actual competitive pieces.  Houston or maybe San Antonio are options potentially but it seems the league has quite the negative perception of both of them.  

[catcheryea]

3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Sasser might see some time with the G-League team. I also think there’s another move to be made. I doubt all 7 of those guys are with the team on opening night. At least I hope there’s another move to be made. 

i don't really think he has anything to gain by playing in the g-league. he already has two nba level skills and he's not going to be a high usage initiator as long as cade and ivey are healthy, so letting him have more on ball reps isn't super relevant to his development and having him guard g-league level guards is basically a waste of his time. he should have a clearly defined role from day one, but the question is how do they stagger the bench minutes

[catcheryea]

don't mind me, just thinking about how troy wasn't interested in bringing back christian wood in 2020 and then in 2 years he went out and acquired both of his pokemon evolution players