Official Pistons Thread: Offseason

[Sllim Pickens]

15 hours ago, catcheryea said:

i'm not low on coulibaly necessarily, i honestly don't really have a fully formed opinion. if they get another pick i'd take a swing on him in the mid teens depending on who the first guy is, and you could maybe convince me on him as high as 10, 11, or 12. he's just so raw and so much of his offense is pure projection. and i think a ton of pistons fans would revolt if they picked another raw french guy, which is really what that gross raw french dude comment was about

as far as ausar, i 10 million percent agree about the ft% especially since two of the other guys in the starting five are ivey (basically a career mid 70s ft shooter) and duren (i think he can get to high 60s or low 70s, which is fine for him, but low overall). i'm honestly more worried about his fit as a ft shooter than as a 3pt shooter/floor spacer. i think him being a 32-34% 3pt shooter is a decently plausible outcome and if cade and ivey can become 35-37% shooters (and let's be honest if cade doesn't shoot, none of this matters) they'll draw enough attention that ausar can cut off his man's help and finish or find the open guy if the rotation comes. i know he's 18 months older than bilal but at least he has the baseline of being a really good passer and it's easier to teach skill than feel (not saying that bilal doesn't have feel)

and i still really, really like hendricks, and i've talked about how well you can construct this team around him at the 4. but even with that i don't think he's the answer to the "who are you going to stick on the other team's best wing player full time" question. also it depends on how you want to play but as of 28 hours before the draft i kinda love the idea of having 4 good to great passers and 3 great to elite athletes and just pushing every chance you get and then falling back on cade's and ivey's creation in the half court and then letting ausar be a finisher and connector

I can get behind that all except I feel Ausar's offensive game is just as much projection as Bilal.  Ausar averaged more points and looked like a solid defender against far inferior competition and the mechanics of his shot are more broken than Bilal.  The Thompson twins had hype for longer here, but also Bilal was 5'6" three years ago and shot up to 6'6".  He hasn't shown the playmaking ability I agree with which is why he is behind the 4/5 guys I am ok with in the top 10 but if we trade down and the 4/5 guys I like are gone, I would gladly take a swing on him over JHS or other names in that area. 

I think my order of wants is Hendricks, Whitmore, Walker, Ausar, Grady/Bilal, Leonard Miller, Leonard MIller, Hawkins, George, JHS, Black, O-Max Prosper, Jett Howard, GG Jackson, Whitehead.  I would love to trade down with Utah and get two of those guys in the 1st.  Ideally it would be Hendricks at 9 and Coulibaly at 16 which gives us the stretch 4 defender and the lock down wing defender with scoring upside.  Or if we find a way to move Bogey for a lottery pick. But I can't say I love anyone enough to want to stay at 5 so I would rather have more darts to find that star and hope for the best.  

Then add Jaime Jaquez, Andre Jackson, Keyonte Johnson, or O-Max if still available at 31.  I would even be ok taking a shot on Emoni Bates in the second round just based on size and upside but again from what I have researched, the good players who are Jr. or Sr. tend to succeed more often in the early 2nd than guys who were big time prospects and fell off.  I would be happy getting a guy like an Xavier Tillman who can be a solid bench player with spot starting ability and thats what I think these guys are but could turn into full time solid starters but not go to guys on a good team.  More of the glue guys. 

 PG - Cade, Ivey, Hayes
SG - Ivey, Coulibaly/Grady D/
SF - Bogdan, Jaquez/O-Max, Coulibaly
PF - Hendricks, Stewart, Bagely
C - Duren, Wiseman, Stewart

I am guessing Bagely or Stewart would start but honestly I am open to moving Stew for a pick as well given I don't really want to pay him and there seems to be a lot of interest.  Still would like to clear Wiseman, Bagley, Hayes off the roster if we can get more upside for them and future cap space and it seems some teams could actually benefit from them, they just aren't the stars we hoped to get out of the failed top picks.  

 

[catcheryea]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I can get behind that all except I feel Ausar's offensive game is just as much projection as Bilal.  Ausar averaged more points and looked like a solid defender against far inferior competition and the mechanics of his shot are more broken than Bilal.  The Thompson twins had hype for longer here, but also Bilal was 5'6" three years ago and shot up to 6'6".  He hasn't shown the playmaking ability I agree with which is why he is behind the 4/5 guys I am ok with in the top 10 but if we trade down and the 4/5 guys I like are gone, I would gladly take a swing on him over JHS or other names in that area. 

I think my order of wants is Hendricks, Whitmore, Walker, Ausar, Grady/Bilal, Leonard Miller, Leonard MIller, Hawkins, George, JHS, Black, O-Max Prosper, Jett Howard, GG Jackson, Whitehead.  I would love to trade down with Utah and get two of those guys in the 1st.  Ideally it would be Hendricks at 9 and Coulibaly at 16 which gives us the stretch 4 defender and the lock down wing defender with scoring upside.  Or if we find a way to move Bogey for a lottery pick. But I can't say I love anyone enough to want to stay at 5 so I would rather have more darts to find that star and hope for the best.  

Then add Jaime Jaquez, Andre Jackson, Keyonte Johnson, or O-Max if still available at 31.  I would even be ok taking a shot on Emoni Bates in the second round just based on size and upside but again from what I have researched, the good players who are Jr. or Sr. tend to succeed more often in the early 2nd than guys who were big time prospects and fell off.  I would be happy getting a guy like an Xavier Tillman who can be a solid bench player with spot starting ability and thats what I think these guys are but could turn into full time solid starters but not go to guys on a good team.  More of the glue guys. 

 PG - Cade, Ivey, Hayes
SG - Ivey, Coulibaly/Grady D/
SF - Bogdan, Jaquez/O-Max, Coulibaly
PF - Hendricks, Stewart, Bagely
C - Duren, Wiseman, Stewart

I am guessing Bagely or Stewart would start but honestly I am open to moving Stew for a pick as well given I don't really want to pay him and there seems to be a lot of interest.  Still would like to clear Wiseman, Bagley, Hayes off the roster if we can get more upside for them and future cap space and it seems some teams could actually benefit from them, they just aren't the stars we hoped to get out of the failed top picks.  

 

i wonder if them seemingly being out on whitmore for workout or medical reasons makes them hesitant less likely to trade down to 9 if they don't have him in that ausar/hendricks/walker group and don't feel comfortable taking him if he's the one that slips

it wouldn't shock me if they tried to move up a little bit from 31 and hopefully any type of deal like that has to include either bagley or wiseman as salary filler and they can get off one of them. but i'm just gonna say i think you're living in a fantasy land if you weaver is trading stewart for anything less than a top 3 pick. i'm almost at the point where i think he'd trade ivey or duren before stew. and if they're 200% sold on stew (i'm not) that could be a reason to not take hendricks. but that's stupid and a hendricks/duren/stewart frontcourt rotation is works way better than a stewart/duren/bagley/wiseman frontcourt dide so idk

 

[catcheryea]

ultimately i'd be happy with hendricks or ausar, questioning walker (on my end) or whitmore (on the front office's end), frustrated with black, and pretty pissed if they move down and don't get any of those guys unless they got some other very good asset or clearly robbed the other team

[Sllim Pickens]

21 hours ago, catcheryea said:

ultimately i'd be happy with hendricks or ausar, questioning walker (on my end) or whitmore (on the front office's end), frustrated with black, and pretty pissed if they move down and don't get any of those guys unless they got some other very good asset or clearly robbed the other team

Seeing Hendricks go 9 really makes me wish we dropped down with Utah.  Then grabbed Whitmore or O-Max at 16.  O-Max and Hendricks would have really added athleticism, shooting and defense to our 3/4 spots. 

I don't love the Ausur pick but I get it. He does have upside but I hope we can fix his shot.  I have a lot more faith in Monty than I do Casey who did nothing to help Hayes learn how to shoot. 

Sasser I am meh on. He is small for a 2 and not quite a true point but could spell as a PG for a couple minutes.  I do like the older prospects late in the first so he fits that bill but would have been fine staying at 31 and either drafting him there or taking Keyonte Johnson, Lamar Miller, Ryan Rupert or GG Jackson or if we traded up or take a swing on Nick Smith if we are still trying to hit home runs. 

[MOSteelers56]

I wonder if the plan is to start Ausar right off the bat? Cade-Ivey-Ausar-Bojan-Duran? Or slow play him and start Bojan and Stew at the 3 and 4 respectively? 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I wonder if the plan is to start Ausar right off the bat? Cade-Ivey-Ausar-Bojan-Duran? Or slow play him and start Bojan and Stew at the 3 and 4 respectively? 

My guess is they play Bojan and Stew together.  If Casey were running the show I would say Bojan and Bagley but hopefully Monty does what is right.  Thompson is super raw and will need some time to adjust IMO. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him spend a lot of time on the court with Cade and Ivey even if not starting.  

[catcheryea]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Seeing Hendricks go 9 really makes me wish we dropped down with Utah.  Then grabbed Whitmore or O-Max at 16.  O-Max and Hendricks would have really added athleticism, shooting and defense to our 3/4 spots. 

I don't love the Ausur pick but I get it. He does have upside but I hope we can fix his shot.  I have a lot more faith in Monty than I do Casey who did nothing to help Hayes learn how to shoot. 

Sasser I am meh on. He is small for a 2 and not quite a true point but could spell as a PG for a couple minutes.  I do like the older prospects late in the first so he fits that bill but would have been fine staying at 31 and either drafting him there or taking Keyonte Johnson, Lamar Miller, Ryan Rupert or GG Jackson or if we traded up or take a swing on Nick Smith if we are still trying to hit home runs. 

i said to a friend of mine after hendricks fell to utah that i sorta wish they made the trade now but i'm guessing ainge didn't really want to give up anything of major value. yeah it seems crazy that they could've ended up with hendricks and whitmore but there has to be something significant with him that scared off everyone that much

i don't really understand the sasser pick and i don't understand why they felt like they had to move up to get him, but at least he provides shooting and is a good defender if the other team has a smaller guard. you can play him off ball next to cade and ausar and not have to worry about being too small across the board

also troy has drafted a pg in the 1st round in 4 straight drafts, which is a little funny

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I wonder if the plan is to start Ausar right off the bat? Cade-Ivey-Ausar-Bojan-Duran? Or slow play him and start Bojan and Stew at the 3 and 4 respectively? 

if weaver has any say in it stew is a surefire starter and as long as bojan is here, he's obviously a lock. aside from the stew lovefest, i get why they'd want to start those two and not throw another rookie who's a poor shooter into that group, but i still don't think the bojan/stewart wing defending duo works in any capacity so they're gonna have cade carrying too much of the load on both sides yet again

my first takeaway from last night is that by not using both picks on wings, they either feel really good about signing grant or johnson or trading for tobias to either be the fifth starter or they move bojan and they take his spot

the other is that they still have a bunch of work to do. you can't play 5 guards in the same rotation, cade and ivey are locks, sasser obviously isn't getting moved before the season, so the decision is between killian and burks and one of those guys is a much better player and has a much more obvious role carved out. i kinda like the idea of mixing the bench lineups so cade and sasser can play together and ivey and burks can play together, and you can put ausar at the 3 so he always has at least one shooter in the backcourt

and you definitely can't play these 4 bigs together so one of bagley or wiseman is gone before october or they're gonna rack up dnps. obviously bagley's contract is disgusting and troy was bidding against himself (i didn't even realize he was an rfa), and the lack of flexibility on the last year is borderline fireable, and they didn't even really need him after drafting duren, and he can't stay healthy, and he doesn't play defense, and he can't shoot, and he can't rebound, and probably 5 more things. but he's actually kind of useful as a bench scorer and he's willing to make plays on offense that don't involve him scoring. the more i've thought about, the more i think there would be way less hostility towards having bagley on the team if troy didn't also get wiseman who's a more selfish, less versatile, softer (how??!!), possibly worse defending, less accepting of his role version of bagley. i would much, much, much rather get rid of wiseman

i said this in the draft thread but after all the talk about moving back or moving up into the lottery or teens for a second pick, and then finally only moving up to get sasser, and especially after last year, last night felt a little anticlimactic

[Sllim Pickens]

3 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

i said to a friend of mine after hendricks fell to utah that i sorta wish they made the trade now but i'm guessing ainge didn't really want to give up anything of major value. yeah it seems crazy that they could've ended up with hendricks and whitmore but there has to be something significant with him that scared off everyone that much

i don't really understand the sasser pick and i don't understand why they felt like they had to move up to get him, but at least he provides shooting and is a good defender if the other team has a smaller guard. you can play him off ball next to cade and ausar and not have to worry about being too small across the board

also troy has drafted a pg in the 1st round in 4 straight drafts, which is a little funny

if weaver has any say in it stew is a surefire starter and as long as bojan is here, he's obviously a lock. aside from the stew lovefest, i get why they'd want to start those two and not throw another rookie who's a poor shooter into that group, but i still don't think the bojan/stewart wing defending duo works in any capacity so they're gonna have cade carrying too much of the load on both sides yet again

my first takeaway from last night is that by not using both picks on wings, they either feel really good about signing grant or johnson or trading for tobias to either be the fifth starter or they move bojan and they take his spot

the other is that they still have a bunch of work to do. you can't play 5 guards in the same rotation, cade and ivey are locks, sasser obviously isn't getting moved before the season, so the decision is between killian and burks and one of those guys is a much better player and has a much more obvious role carved out. i kinda like the idea of mixing the bench lineups so cade and sasser can play together and ivey and burks can play together, and you can put ausar at the 3 so he always has at least one shooter in the backcourt

and you definitely can't play these 4 bigs together so one of bagley or wiseman is gone before october or they're gonna rack up dnps. obviously bagley's contract is disgusting and troy was bidding against himself (i didn't even realize he was an rfa), and the lack of flexibility on the last year is borderline fireable, and they didn't even really need him after drafting duren, and he can't stay healthy, and he doesn't play defense, and he can't shoot, and he can't rebound, and probably 5 more things. but he's actually kind of useful as a bench scorer and he's willing to make plays on offense that don't involve him scoring. the more i've thought about, the more i think there would be way less hostility towards having bagley on the team if troy didn't also get wiseman who's a more selfish, less versatile, softer (how??!!), possibly worse defending, less accepting of his role version of bagley. i would much, much, much rather get rid of wiseman

i said this in the draft thread but after all the talk about moving back or moving up into the lottery or teens for a second pick, and then finally only moving up to get sasser, and especially after last year, last night felt a little anticlimactic

Yeah, I was expecting a little more shake up/excitement out of the draft.  31 was a prime spot for a solid talent with a non-guaranteed contract so why not just sit tight?  I get they like Sasser but they had to like him a lot more than anyone else on the board to make that move, even though they didn't give up a ton.  And I just don't see why they liked him that much.  

I am interested in seeing what moves they make now.  They have to shake some things up as we have too many bodies.  I feel like we could have gave more than what Washington got Prozingas but he may not have opted in if he was headed here.  Maybe Washington would be willing to take on Bagley/Wiseman now that they have cleared some space and have room to let youth develop on the fly and work out or end up with the top pick. 

[catcheryea]

12 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Yeah, I was expecting a little more shake up/excitement out of the draft.  31 was a prime spot for a solid talent with a non-guaranteed contract so why not just sit tight?  I get they like Sasser but they had to like him a lot more than anyone else on the board to make that move, even though they didn't give up a ton.  And I just don't see why they liked him that much.  

I am interested in seeing what moves they make now.  They have to shake some things up as we have too many bodies.  I feel like we could have gave more than what Washington got Prozingas but he may not have opted in if he was headed here.  Maybe Washington would be willing to take on Bagley/Wiseman now that they have cleared some space and have room to let youth develop on the fly and work out or end up with the top pick. 

i wonder if they'll basically be forced to give up bojan if they want to move bagley. killian and wiseman are slightly less negative assets since they're essentially expirings but i can't picture a team that would want bojan and also have a need for either of those two

i'm also a little surprised they opted to go with sasser over trying to sign a vet bench pg who can actually play (not cory joseph). we'll see what the rest of the moves look like and i still don't think this is a good team unless cade and/or ivey take major jumps, but at least they added more defense, athleticism, and some shooting

[Sllim Pickens]

17 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

i wonder if they'll basically be forced to give up bojan if they want to move bagley. killian and wiseman are slightly less negative assets since they're essentially expirings but i can't picture a team that would want bojan and also have a need for either of those two

i'm also a little surprised they opted to go with sasser over trying to sign a vet bench pg who can actually play (not cory joseph). we'll see what the rest of the moves look like and i still don't think this is a good team unless cade and/or ivey take major jumps, but at least they added more defense, athleticism, and some shooting

To be fair, this team/core will never be good unless Cade, Ivey and Duren make big jumps.  Thats the plan and hope when you draft a guy that they are solid right away but improve to turn into stars like Boston got with Tatum and Brown. We don't have any stars on this team but have three guys that have that potential.  Maybe four if you count Ausar but I think he is more of a very good role player than a star.  

As for the moves, I can see a team like New Orleans or San Antonio being willing to take on two of them.  In NO, Hayes would battle for that PG2 and Bagley would be a solid depth big for them that can provide some scoring.  In San Antonio they could use some veteran leadership to go with a young team and Hayes would probably be the PG2 there as well, Bagley a solid big to play alongside Vic as would Wiseman.  A pic would be nice but also would likely have to bring in McDermott for cap purposes.  

[Texansfan713]

Take care of Marcus Sasser for me. 

[catcheryea]

the biggest win of the draft is ausar not choosing 00

[catcheryea]

they're gonna start wiseman and duren together, we can't even escape this in summer league

[catcheryea]

get buddy ******* boeheim off my ******* basketball team

[beekay414]

1 hour ago, catcheryea said:

get buddy ******* boeheim off my ******* basketball team