Official Pistons Thread: Offseason

[catcheryea]

16 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

What about Anthony Black at 5? He’s a reach, but I think he could be a decent pick. I’m personally a Whitmore guy, mostly because I just like watching big nasty dunks and I also don’t know what I’m talking about really. Black is the same height as Whitmore and seems like a smarter player, not as athletic, but much better feel. 3 guard lineup with Cade- Ivey- AB? Could be interesting. His selection could finally push Killian off the roster too which is alright. 

my view is basically if you want black, just draft draft ausar and take a shot at the higher ceiling. they’re the same height, ausar is much longer, more athletic, and maybe most damning, a better shooter. they should both be good defenders and they’re both good connective passers so that’s a wash but i think ausar offers more as an off ball player as a cutter, and again, as a shooter (yikes) and i think you could actually run some fun pnr stuff with him as the roller. i'm not really sure how much you're missing out on by taking ausar over black unless you really want a third pick and roll ball handler

i think right now i'm at hendricks, ausar, whitmore, walker, but they're all really close and the only thing i'm sure of is that hendricks isn't last. they've all pretty much got one big question/swing skill and one smaller question/swing skill but some of them personally bother me more than others

[catcheryea]

7 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Detroit’s needs are weird & don’t fit this draft class. I think they need a big 3/stretch 4. Taylor Hendricks might be the closest thing to that. I actually like his fit with Detroit a lot. 

what? after vic and scoot there's like 3 draftable centers in the whole draft and 4 small lead ball handlers, which are the two spots the pistons definitely don't need. the rest of the draft is basically all wings, which is exactly the hole they need to fill

[BetterCallSaul]

2 hours ago, catcheryea said:

what? after vic and scoot there's like 3 draftable centers in the whole draft and 4 small lead ball handlers, which are the two spots the pistons definitely don't need. the rest of the draft is basically all wings, which is exactly the hole they need to fill

Shooting guards? Yeah there’s a million. Isn’t that Cade’s spot? I am not a Pistons fan, so correct me if I’m wrong.

I don’t think they need another 6’5 guard. From my perspective, they’re lacking a big shooting wing, unless Cade is playing the 3. 

[catcheryea]

17 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Shooting guards? Yeah there’s a million. Isn’t that Cade’s spot? I am not a Pistons fan, so correct me if I’m wrong.

I don’t think they need another 6’5 guard. From my perspective, they’re lacking a big shooting wing, unless Cade is playing the 3. 

not that it really matters but cade is the nominal point and ivey is the 2. scoot, bufkin, wallace, hood-schifino, george, nick smith, and hawkins could be the only strict guards who go before pick 31. lively might be the only day 1 non shooting center taken before pick 31. that's 8 guys who don't fit detroit's roster, and really scoot doesn't count because he's that good, so that's 7 guys detroit shouldn't take. if detroit was looking for a primary ball handler or a pure rim protector they'd be sol because there aren't many of those guys and certainly none of those 7 are worth taking at #5

like you said, they need wings and almost everybody else who gets picked in the 1st round will probably be able to play on the wing in some capacity. the 6 guys probably in consideration at #5 are the thompsons, walker, whitmore, hendricks, and black. all of whom can play some variation of a 3 or 4. they need more than just shooting but i agree that hendricks is the cleanest fit but i also don't think he's a 3. sure, none of the other guys are great shooters but amen, ausar, walker, and black are all varying degrees of good to great passers and good to great defenders, and whitmore included, they're all good to elite athletes

outside of cade, ivey, and duren, this team largely sucks. there's very little functional size or athleticism, good passers, perimeter defenders or generally high iq players. i said right after the lottery if they weren't going to get wemby or to some extent, scoot, it didn't really matter how far they fell because everyone after that could help them in some way

[Sllim Pickens]

So I am hoping we land Hendricks (or Whitmore but prefer the fit with Hendricks) and then O-Max Prosper falls to 31 and we can snag him there.  I think he can be that Herb Jones type 3/4 who is defensive focused but solid enough offensively to not be a liability.  A very good rotational player that could guard all 5 and is a little older which should help him transition easier.  The early second round seems to historically favor the older players like Draymond, Xavier Tillman, Nic Claxton, Jalen Brunson, Herb Jones, Malcolm Brogdon etc over the freshman that had hype coming into the year but slipped during the year.  So hoping the pick is someone like Prosper, Andre Jackson, Keyonte Johnson, or Strawther etc. 

[BigC421/]

4 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I am not saying he will be Zion, I am saying they don't have much at PF, and he can step in as a 5th option and fill the void.  He could play the 5 in small ball lineups with Herb Jones and BI at the 3/4.  Where we have too many players like him, they have none.  

And as much as I am disappointed in Hayes development, his ability to run the offense and defend is better than either Alvarado or Daniels at this point.  They had no PG last year and Daniels averaged 3 points and 2 assists on almost as bad shooting numbers.  Alvarado was similarly bad offensively and Hayes is the most versatile defender of them at this point.  

Again, I am not trying to sell them as great pieces, just decent fillers and pieces that won't make you get to the playoffs but can help in the right situation.  Given people talk about Zion straight up for 2, I am wondering what it would take to go from 5 to 2.  And I dont think a package of 5, Bogey, and a future pick is bad comp for the three spot jump if you are trying to move down.  If you replace Bogey with any of the others mentioned or add them in, it makes it better for the other teams, even if we dont like their fit here. 

 

On 6/14/2023 at 12:12 PM, Sllim Pickens said:

So I am hoping we land Hendricks (or Whitmore but prefer the fit with Hendricks) and then O-Max Prosper falls to 31 and we can snag him there.  I think he can be that Herb Jones type 3/4 who is defensive focused but solid enough offensively to not be a liability.  A very good rotational player that could guard all 5 and is a little older which should help him transition easier.  The early second round seems to historically favor the older players like Draymond, Xavier Tillman, Nic Claxton, Jalen Brunson, Herb Jones, Malcolm Brogdon etc over the freshman that had hype coming into the year but slipped during the year.  So hoping the pick is someone like Prosper, Andre Jackson, Keyonte Johnson, or Strawther etc. 

Your obsession with and ability to interject Herb Jones into any conversation truly knows no bounds.  

[MOSteelers56]

What would people feel about a Utah trade back. Getting Hendricks at 9 and Jamie Jasquez at 16? Get the dynamic athleticism, shot blocking, youth, and 3 point shot from Hendricks. And add the gritty defense, playmaking, experience from JJJ. I’m not sure I’d take JJJ without first getting Hendricks, though. If we got Whitmore or Walker at 9, I’d look for Gradey [redacted] at 16 because he’s a better athlete than JJJ. I think with those two picks, keeping Burks and Bogy, and getting Cade back this team is 100x more fun. Improvements from Duren and Ivey and improved coaching and we could be in a similar spot to OKC last year. 

[catcheryea]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

What would people feel about a Utah trade back. Getting Hendricks at 9 and Jamie Jasquez at 16? Get the dynamic athleticism, shot blocking, youth, and 3 point shot from Hendricks. And add the gritty defense, playmaking, experience from JJJ. I’m not sure I’d take JJJ without first getting Hendricks, though. If we got Whitmore or Walker at 9, I’d look for Gradey [redacted] at 16 because he’s a better athlete than JJJ. I think with those two picks, keeping Burks and Bogy, and getting Cade back this team is 100x more fun. Improvements from Duren and Ivey and improved coaching and we could be in a similar spot to OKC last year. 

to me, 16 seems high for jaquez. i'd rather take a swing on someone like coulibaly (gross raw french dude) or if you want an older guy, o-max or even kris murray. i totally get why his archetype would be valuable but, and troy even said this today basically, they still really need to look for pure ceiling raiser talents and not just solid guys who fit in

maybe somewhere like 22 or further back i would be more on board but also from a purely fit perspective they still need plus athletes on the wing and someone who can be the primary poa defender

[General Tso]

5 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

What would people feel about a Utah trade back. Getting Hendricks at 9 and Jamie Jasquez at 16? Get the dynamic athleticism, shot blocking, youth, and 3 point shot from Hendricks. And add the gritty defense, playmaking, experience from JJJ. I’m not sure I’d take JJJ without first getting Hendricks, though. If we got Whitmore or Walker at 9, I’d look for Gradey [redacted] at 16 because he’s a better athlete than JJJ. I think with those two picks, keeping Burks and Bogy, and getting Cade back this team is 100x more fun. Improvements from Duren and Ivey and improved coaching and we could be in a similar spot to OKC last year. 

well this draft isn't great past 3, so multiple lottery tickets is good with me.

[MOSteelers56]

32 minutes ago, General Tso said:

well this draft isn't great past 3, so multiple lottery tickets is good with me.

I’m not even sure it’s great past 2. I have faith that Weaver will get some talent. He’s been a fairly solid drafter. Even if we just pick once, I think he’ll find someone to help. 

[catcheryea]

i think i want ausar

Edited June 21, 2023 by catcheryea

[Texansfan713]

18 minutes ago, catcheryea said:

i think i want ausar

You will be happier with Jarace Walker. 😀

[MOSteelers56]

4 hours ago, catcheryea said:

i think i want ausar

He does seem like the best bet at #5. Great athleticism, good defense, good off-ball offense, potential on ball offense, shooting is improving, decent size, plays a position of need. I think I’d be least happy with Walker at 5, but I’m pretty content with a lot of guys who may be there from 5-10. 

[Sllim Pickens]

4 hours ago, catcheryea said:

i think i want ausar

I can't get on this bandwagon tbh.  I would be ok with it but more so if we move down a few spots.  I still would rather have Hendricks or someone who can play D and shoot and not one we have to teach how to shoot.  If his FT percentage was decent then maybe, but thats a bad sign that we likely will be building from scratch and that often doesn't change dramatically.  He probably at best would be a low 30% shooter if he can get above 30.  Give me the 6'9" SF/PF who plays great D and shot almost 40% from three.  They have similar boom/bust outcomes IMO with a floor of at least being a good defender with their length and athleticism but one has a much higher likely outcome offensively. 

I don't get why you are high on Ausur but down on Coulibaly.  Younger, 2" wider wingspan, slightly better outside shot, similar FT%, crazy hops, crazy athletic defender but did it against better competition.  They are the same prospect IMO with very similar weaknesses. 

[catcheryea]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I can't get on this bandwagon tbh.  I would be ok with it but more so if we move down a few spots.  I still would rather have Hendricks or someone who can play D and shoot and not one we have to teach how to shoot.  If his FT percentage was decent then maybe, but thats a bad sign that we likely will be building from scratch and that often doesn't change dramatically.  He probably at best would be a low 30% shooter if he can get above 30.  Give me the 6'9" SF/PF who plays great D and shot almost 40% from three.  They have similar boom/bust outcomes IMO with a floor of at least being a good defender with their length and athleticism but one has a much higher likely outcome offensively. 

I don't get why you are high on Ausur but down on Coulibaly.  Younger, 2" wider wingspan, slightly better outside shot, similar FT%, crazy hops, crazy athletic defender but did it against better competition.  They are the same prospect IMO with very similar weaknesses. 

i'm not low on coulibaly necessarily, i honestly don't really have a fully formed opinion. if they get another pick i'd take a swing on him in the mid teens depending on who the first guy is, and you could maybe convince me on him as high as 10, 11, or 12. he's just so raw and so much of his offense is pure projection. and i think a ton of pistons fans would revolt if they picked another raw french guy, which is really what that gross raw french dude comment was about

as far as ausar, i 10 million percent agree about the ft% especially since two of the other guys in the starting five are ivey (basically a career mid 70s ft shooter) and duren (i think he can get to high 60s or low 70s, which is fine for him, but low overall). i'm honestly more worried about his fit as a ft shooter than as a 3pt shooter/floor spacer. i think him being a 32-34% 3pt shooter is a decently plausible outcome and if cade and ivey can become 35-37% shooters (and let's be honest if cade doesn't shoot, none of this matters) they'll draw enough attention that ausar can cut off his man's help and finish or find the open guy if the rotation comes. i know he's 18 months older than bilal but at least he has the baseline of being a really good passer and it's easier to teach skill than feel (not saying that bilal doesn't have feel)

and i still really, really like hendricks, and i've talked about how well you can construct this team around him at the 4. but even with that i don't think he's the answer to the "who are you going to stick on the other team's best wing player full time" question. also it depends on how you want to play but as of 28 hours before the draft i kinda love the idea of having 4 good to great passers and 3 great to elite athletes and just pushing every chance you get and then falling back on cade's and ivey's creation in the half court and then letting ausar be a finisher and connector