All Things Wrestling Thread

[Dr LBC]

Happy they gave Becky the clean win.  That ref was utterly horrible though.  Can't hide the gimmick/stagecraft for squat.  Stalled on multiple counts in his meter because whoever was supposed to get up hadn't yet and that wasn't the finish.  Just really, really sloppy on his part.

[Livewire]

That was entertaining. Both women were terrific.

[Dr LBC]

Overall, good not great event.

It's pretty much what I expected considering that they weren't going to be able to keep Vince from having fingerprints all over the event and that ultimately was going to be a detractor.  So in a word: overproduced.

And the reason i'm seemingly, maybe, overly critical here is that I was really hopeful that since they'd finally be giving just about all the women's matches a good run of time each, there might finally be a chance to show Vince that they can actually work.  But the Sports Entertainment style (and Vince's - yes... it's him at this point because he and certain other producers are convinced that in any kind of No DQ-ish match there HAVE to be weapons even though they're never - and can't - be used in the fashion they were in the AE/RA periods) just slows things down so much that the continuity within matches because difficult and stilted.

[The Gnat]

I thought that was one of the better pay per views we've had in a while. We definitely had a few matches that I didn't care about but nothing was much of a letdown. I do agree with LBC that since Vince was involved it kind of ended up being more of a standard show than it should have been. They forgot to pack Vince up ahead of time and ship him to Saudi Arabia.

[Dr LBC]

5 hours ago, The Gnat said:

I thought that was one of the better pay per views we've had in a while. We definitely had a few matches that I didn't care about but nothing was much of a letdown. I do agree with LBC that since Vince was involved it kind of ended up being more of a standard show than it should have been. They forgot to pack Vince up ahead of time and ship him to Saudi Arabia.

Actually the advertising of Crown Jewel, a show where the women aren't even allowed to perform, on this show was tasteless and tone deaf, but then...  what do you expect?  It's Vince.

[DawgX]

2 hours ago, The LBC said:

Actually the advertising of Crown Jewel, a show where the women aren't even allowed to perform, on this show was tasteless and tone deaf, but then...  what do you expect?  It's Vince.

Yeah, he doesn't give a crap. He just cares about the dollar signs. It's both hilarious and sad that they try to promote the women's revolution in wrestling but then go to a place like Saudi Arabia.

[Dr LBC]

27 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Yeah, he doesn't give a crap. He just cares about the dollar signs. It's both hilarious and sad that they try to promote the women's revolution in wrestling but then go to a place like Saudi Arabia.

There's a very really part of me that feels like the only reason Vince actually signed off on doing an all-Women's PPV was because it could be used as a gimmick/filler to help promote the Saudi event he was getting paid a gross amount of money to put on.

[Dr LBC]

Aside from this Dean/Seth feud, Vince really just has lost all concept of how to let things breathe and simmer when it comes to storylines.  Maybe that's heightened right now because they're cramming so many unneeded super cards in for the payday, but yeesh - nowhere was it more apparent in how they're trying to re-bring Braun back as a babyface.  He and Lesnar are both monsters - he doesn't need to say anything (especially anything short and hokey), just have him come out and stare him down.  If he's going to say anything, have him remind Lesnar that he told him "he was finished with you yet."

Becky/Ronda should be a great match, but this build is going to be painful, I suspect (outside of Becky's promos).  Ronda is going to be promo'ing against air... which isn't good for her because it means she'll be talking unnecessarily.

I genuinely don't care if Lita has the bug again or not, she needs to stay out of the ring.  She was flew about as well as a someone wearing cement shoes doing that Poetry-in-Motion.

I'm not sure Michael Cole is capable of saying the words "win the championship."  He constantly slipped up and says "win the champion" on pretty much a weekly basis now.

Elias is going to make a good babyface if he doesn't get lose in the mix - putting him through the exact same route Finn just went through and has achieved zilch in all summer isn't going to do that though (i.e. Jinder/Baron and probably back around to Lashley pretending like their alignments weren't flipped recently).

 

[titans0021]

1 hour ago, The LBC said:

genuinely don't care if Lita has the bug again or not, she needs to stay out of the ring.  She was flew about as well as a someone wearing cement shoes doing that Poetry-in-Motion

Found this hilarious. Got the same amount of air as Natalya does when she runs over her opponent’s back.

[Mox]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 10:07 PM, BlaqOptic said:

Still went with the Heel Turn even with Roman announcing his Luekemia, huh? Seems like an absolutely amazing idea.

FIFY

[Mox]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 4:32 PM, The LBC said:

Yup.  And it would likely be Ambrose defending with Rollins overcoming.

Roman's going to be out for a year MINIMUM (that this is a recurrence is positive for him in that he's beaten it in the past, but in order for it to come back, typically that means it's come back stronger than before).

And the reality is, because they spent so much time pushing Roman as "the guy," they really don't have an "every-tool" guy on the roster right now (the look that will draw in the casual fan - which means bigger, those fans expect a certain physique/size in "the guy;" the mic skills, the ring work, the variety of character to be able to have his on-air personality and his Today Show personality, the believability).  The closest thing they have right now is actually Ronda and, facts are facts, Vince isn't going to make a woman the tippy-top face of his company.  Plus she's still green enough for it to be noticeable - though it would be nice to not see Ronda selling for 15+ minutes to the likes of Nikki Bella.

i know someone's going to throw Seth's name out there (and he's probably the closest right now), but reality is that his character is still underdeveloped (maybe if the let him win this World Cup - which is so clearly designed to just pettily take away the "Best in the World" moniker from CM Punk - and let Seth take on that moniker over the now-played-out Kingslayer and Architect ones) and his mic skills are, IMHO, strong enough to survive the heavy-handed scripting that Vince will undoubtedly do with whoever is "the guy."  Braun gives you the same match over and over again - which worked in Hogan's day, but won't work now.  AJ is old - I love him, but they're not going to make a 40+ year old the face of the company (even if Vince seems to forever put over the 50-year-olds that he made).  Bryan's working a part-time schedule, by his own choice, he's not going to be "the guy."  Finn's too small.  Joe and Owens aren't the right body type.  Unless they hotshot Matt Riddle or Keith Lee (and really neither of them are quite ready for that), they don't have anyone on NXT that is an all-tooler.  You're not going to be able to market Ciampa as a babyface.  Gargano and Cole are too small.  Ricochet is still too green on the mic and they haven't fleshed out his character well enough.  There's potential in Dream, but I think most of us know why Vince will never push him as his top guy - even if that's something we don't discuss on this site - and even if Vince could get past that, you have a more ready guy in Big E that would be ahead of him in line.  Aleister doesn't have the body type.  He could be "a top guy" but not "the top guy."  I can pretty much guarantee that what little Vince may have seen of him, his first thought is likely to be "CM Punk," which will evoke old biases.

Drew is probably the closest thing they've got right now, but he's always been a better heel than babyface and I'm not sure he's got a strong enough babyface character in him.  If it was me, I'd be pulling the trigger on and strapping a rocket to Cesaro.  At 37, he's still young enough that you can get 10 years out of him; he has charisma, a good look (the balding aside, but you can have him Bic his head regularly), and he can work with anyone.  But Vince won't do that.  This will be the point where guys like Cody and Omega will have the most leverage they might ever have on Vince, but I highly doubt they're willing to make that jump right now.  I do expect Vince to make a hard run at one or two of guys on the indies with WWE histories (particularly if they started out there).  Two names I can definitely see in that vein are Brian Cage (was actually in developmental at one point and was cut - as he talks about on his recent appearance on Austin's podcast) and John Morrison/Hennigan/Mundo/Impact.  Not sure of the status of either of their contracts with the various organizations they're working, but both have big enough names that you could have them bypass NXT (obviously with Morrison) and do a similar debut as they did with AJ in the Rumble.

I think we're going to see the fall season used to try some guys out in that "the guy" role or just below there.  That likely explains the Elias babyface turn.  He still has some greenness in the ring (and rushes a lot of things), but he sells extremely well and has charisma for days.  The Drifter/Singer character isn't a top babyface gimmick, but he has the ability to evolve from that.  We might see them try out Bobby Roode in that role - he's a shade older than the company would probably prefer - but I have trouble seeing Vince push a guy to the tippy-top that made his name in another company.  If Sami comes back from his injury as filled out as Dean came back from his, maybe you give him a run (though Vince still sees him as a goof) because he's fully capable of being another Bret Hart if you let him play serious; the concern I could see them having is propensity for getting injured on the long-term since he's now on three major surgeries in the span of his main roster career.

And then there's one other guy, and I've waffled back and forth on whether I think Vince would actually do it because he does have, at least, as much of a WWE past as Cage does, but he truly became a recognizable name in another company.  That being EC3.  He's more of a main roster product than an NXT type worker anyway.  And if you want to talk about someone whose debut would get a HUGE pop and who is capable of hitting the ground running, it's him.

Cesaro has nowhere near the character/mic work to be the top guy.

[Dr LBC]

2 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

Cesaro has nowhere near the character/mic work to be the top guy.

If Braun does, Cesaro does.  I've seen Claudio promo live dozens of times, his mic work (particularly working the kind of crap scripts Vince gives the top guy) is on par with Seth's.

[Dr LBC]

I had a feeling this was going to happen, but BRA-EFFING-VO, Brian!

 

[Mox]

51 minutes ago, The LBC said:

If Braun does, Cesaro does.  I've seen Claudio promo live dozens of times, his mic work (particularly working the kind of crap scripts Vince gives the top guy) is on par with Seth's.

Braun and Seth, based on on WWE work, are significantly better on the mic than Cesaro and I wouldn't call either of them very good.

[Dr LBC]

6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Braun and Seth, based on on WWE work, are significantly better on the mic than Cesaro and I wouldn't call either of them very good.

No.  They're really not.  Braun's WWE is work is rudimentary at best.  He can sure shout a catchphrase, but to say that he has top-guy mic cred where Cesaro doesn't would be to argue that Warrior did because he yelled nonsensically, but loud.