2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)

[UofMfan909]

12 hours ago, N4L said:

A Michigan fan becoming the hype man for a Michigan State player?? Unprecedented. He must be good? 

Don't hype him up so much so we can't get him in the 3rd/4th, like @ConvenientTruth did with Joe Flacco. 

Welcome back! 

I definitely don't have that level of care. But I would be willing to take @oldman9er's favorite CB and make it Cason vs Talib ten years later. 

[rudyZ]

13 hours ago, UofMfan909 said:

Justin Layne is the best CB in this draft. MSU put out Dennard and Waynes to WAY more hype, Layne will be better. I would absolutely take him at the top of the second and think he's going to blow up at the combine. 

I value your opinion, UofMSUfan90210. Missed you.

[John232]

Wrong thread.

[Forge]

So currently pick #4. 

This opens a lot of options. Potentially, we could still swing a trade for Bosa. The Cardinals need a lot of offensive help, some help on the interior defensive line, so Bosa may not be the clear cut answer at #1. Theoretically, it's possible that we offer #4, next year's one, and something else to nab Bosa ahead of the Raiders. 

If that doesn't come to fruition, we could stay at 4, and target whomever we feel is the best edge rusher at that place, or amazingly, we could go interior d-line again. I'm not sure that's something we would do or not, but obviously Williams and Oliver would be worth the pick. 

The interesting thing is, currently we pick 4, Jax 5. The Giants are 8. If the Giants want to move ahead of the Jags to get the quarterback of their choosing, this could be very interesting and prime real estate to jump ahead of the Jags and get the QBotF. I'll be watching that closely. I think it's going to be easier to navigate out of the 4 spot then it would have been the #2 spot, honestly. 

I think my top edge rusher right now is going to be Josh Allen. I need to watch more on all of them, but damn, Allen is good, and he's been a playmaker. He's forced 11 fumbles in his career. Polite and Burns have also been pretty good at this (polite has 5 this year, 7 total, while Burns has been pretty consistent at 1/3/3) but Sweat has lagged behind considerably with only one in his career.  

[JIllg]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

So currently pick #4. 

This opens a lot of options. Potentially, we could still swing a trade for Bosa. The Cardinals need a lot of offensive help, some help on the interior defensive line, so Bosa may not be the clear cut answer at #1. Theoretically, it's possible that we offer #4, next year's one, and something else to nab Bosa ahead of the Raiders. 

If that doesn't come to fruition, we could stay at 4, and target whomever we feel is the best edge rusher at that place, or amazingly, we could go interior d-line again. I'm not sure that's something we would do or not, but obviously Williams and Oliver would be worth the pick. 

The interesting thing is, currently we pick 4, Jax 5. The Giants are 8. If the Giants want to move ahead of the Jags to get the quarterback of their choosing, this could be very interesting and prime real estate to jump ahead of the Jags and get the QBotF. I'll be watching that closely. I think it's going to be easier to navigate out of the 4 spot then it would have been the #2 spot, honestly. 

I think my top edge rusher right now is going to be Josh Allen. I need to watch more on all of them, but damn, Allen is good, and he's been a playmaker. He's forced 11 fumbles in his career. Polite and Burns have also been pretty good at this (polite has 5 this year, 7 total, while Burns has been pretty consistent at 1/3/3) but Sweat has lagged behind considerably with only one in his career.  

Allen's first step just puts fools on a blender. And he has position versatility (if we, say, sign a Clowney or somesuch or hit on a later round Ximines type). I worry about his lack of a counter move, but honestly, that's the same for everyone who isn't Bosa. And Allen's growth as a player is also encouraging. He's putting in the work to maximize his athletic profile. And the ceiling is really darn high.  

[John232]

Just now, Forge said:

So currently pick #4. 

This opens a lot of options. Potentially, we could still swing a trade for Bosa. The Cardinals need a lot of offensive help, some help on the interior defensive line, so Bosa may not be the clear cut answer at #1. Theoretically, it's possible that we offer #4, next year's one, and something else to nab Bosa ahead of the Raiders. 

If that doesn't come to fruition, we could stay at 4, and target whomever we feel is the best edge rusher at that place, or amazingly, we could go interior d-line again. I'm not sure that's something we would do or not, but obviously Williams and Oliver would be worth the pick. 

The interesting thing is, currently we pick 4, Jax 5. The Giants are 8. If the Giants want to move ahead of the Jags to get the quarterback of their choosing, this could be very interesting and prime real estate to jump ahead of the Jags and get the QBotF. I'll be watching that closely. I think it's going to be easier to navigate out of the 4 spot then it would have been the #2 spot, honestly. 

I think my top edge rusher right now is going to be Josh Allen. I need to watch more on all of them, but damn, Allen is good, and he's been a playmaker. He's forced 11 fumbles in his career. Polite and Burns have also been pretty good at this (polite has 5 this year, 7 total, while Burns has been pretty consistent at 1/3/3) but Sweat has lagged behind considerably with only one in his career.  

 

So there's a couple conceivable scenarios where Bosa would drop to the 49ers. Really depends on the Raiders evaluations of their own team and QB. I don't think it plays out this way because I think the Jets would take Bosa 9/10 times. But really, it comes down to Quinnen vs Ed vs Jonah vs Nick. Legit case for Bosa being #3 in overall talent out of that group, with the positional importance of LT being the priority. The other caveat is the Jets may also be a prime trade back candidate.

 

Anyways, I could see a situation looking like this for Bosa dropping to 4

1. Cards: Quinnen Williams

2. Oakland: Ed Oliver/Herbert or Haskins (if they part with Carr)

3. NYJ: Jonah Williams (Elite LT prospect with a young QB is possibly more important than an elite pass-rusher.

4. San Francisco: Bosa

 

[John232]

Just now, JIllg said:

Allen's first step just puts fools on a blender. And he has position versatility (if we, say, sign a Clowney or somesuch or hit on a later round Ximines type). I worry about his lack of a counter move, but honestly, that's the same for everyone who isn't Bosa. And Allen's growth as a player is also encouraging. He's putting in the work to maximize his athletic profile. And the ceiling is really darn high.  

I think this is what catapults him to #2 edge for me. Went from very "Meh" film to being absolutely dominant. I'd argue one of the most surefire ways to gage if a guy will be good at the next level is they never show any regression without their being a real good excuse (injury to player or team). 

[Forge]

Should be noted that Josh Allen I do believe has a documented learning disability. Obviously, hasn't impacted him at UK, and I don't know the extent of that disability or how bad it could potentially hinder him or if it would at all, but it may be something that dings him during the draft if teams feel that he may struggle with playbooks or anything like that. I think a lot of that will be made known at the interview portion of the combine. 

[sherm]

Nothing has changed for me despite the drop in draft slot. As long as we come out with either Bosa or Allen I'm good with the selection.

[John232]

20 minutes ago, Forge said:

Should be noted that Josh Allen I do believe has a documented learning disability. Obviously, hasn't impacted him at UK, and I don't know the extent of that disability or how bad it could potentially hinder him or if it would at all, but it may be something that dings him during the draft if teams feel that he may struggle with playbooks or anything like that. I think a lot of that will be made known at the interview portion of the combine. 

Source? Trying to find information on him having a learning disability. That would definitely ding him on some level. 

[Forge]

40 minutes ago, John232 said:

Source? Trying to find information on him having a learning disability. That would definitely ding him on some level. 

NFL.com. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000985271/article/how-kentuckys-josh-allen-became-nfl-drafts-fastestrising-prospect

He was in special education classes for a long time before getting out, though that initially seems to be caused by a stutter. Appears to have ADHD as well and got a formal diagnosis in college; not sure what that means for potential adderall usage or not (he has a prescription).  The article mentions that he has quit football a few times, though not since high school. I like the fact that he reads to kids though. 

Again, I don't know how serious or detrimental it is . Seems that he is handling it rather fine, and ADHD doesn't necessarily mean that he's intellectually deficient in any way, obviously, just that he may have struggles with learning because of a lack of focus. I just think it's something worth monitoring because we as fans will have no information regarding that stuff and how serious it is whatsoever. 

[Forge]

Interesting comment from Dwayne Haskins in Mike Weber's post about going pro. 

Herbert still hasn't made his declarations known yet either, and I believe that those are the only two who can seriously be worth considering in the top 5 (or top 10 honestly) 

[burlow]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

Should be noted that Josh Allen I do believe has a documented learning disability. Obviously, hasn't impacted him at UK, and I don't know the extent of that disability or how bad it could potentially hinder him or if it would at all, but it may be something that dings him during the draft if teams feel that he may struggle with playbooks or anything like that. I think a lot of that will be made known at the interview portion of the combine. 

 

I would take drive/initiative over intelligence any day.  I have not seen or scouted Allen at all but am not scared by a learning disability, we need to look no further than Frank Gore to see what a talented and motivated individual is capable of.    

We have seen the other side of the spectrum as well, such as Aldon and Ruben, even Davis.  A drive to succeed will often trump flaws that could otherwise impede their potential.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, burlow said:

 

I would take drive/initiative over intelligence any day.  I have not seen or scouted Allen at all but am not scared by a learning disability, we need to look no further than Frank Gore to see what a talented and motivated individual is capable of.    

We have seen the other side of the spectrum as well, such as Aldon and Ruben, even Davis.  A drive to succeed will often trump flaws that could otherwise impede their potential.

That's what I like to believe as well, and quite frankly, I don't think that defensive playbooks are nearly as difficult as offensive playbooks. If this were a quarterback we were talking about? Yeah, I think I'd have some concerns. Don't think I have all that much care for a  defensive guy with a learning disability so long as he has that drive, as you mentioned. 

[John232]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

NFL.com. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000985271/article/how-kentuckys-josh-allen-became-nfl-drafts-fastestrising-prospect

He was in special education classes for a long time before getting out, though that initially seems to be caused by a stutter. Appears to have ADHD as well and got a formal diagnosis in college; not sure what that means for potential adderall usage or not (he has a prescription).  The article mentions that he has quit football a few times, though not since high school. I like the fact that he reads to kids though. 

Again, I don't know how serious or detrimental it is . Seems that he is handling it rather fine, and ADHD doesn't necessarily mean that he's intellectually deficient in any way, obviously, just that he may have struggles with learning because of a lack of focus. I just think it's something worth monitoring because we as fans will have no information regarding that stuff and how serious it is whatsoever. 

Yeah..that's not horrible but definitely worth monitoring. I still think it could ding him a a position rank or two on a lot of teams big boards. I'd still be more concerned with Polite's strength vs the run and Burns overall frame. Good catch though.