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Patriots cut 2017 3rd round pick Tony Garcia (Jets claim him on waivers)

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

It is surprising though that they would draft Sony Michel in the 1st. Doesn't seem like a NE move.

Well again they aren’t by any means perfect.   Just look at their WR draft record for Day 1-2.   

But consider that while a top 10 pick is a big cash outlay for RB (#2 spot for Barkley cost 31.4M, #10 spot used for Gurley is 17.8M now, #13 that WAS considered for Guice costs 15.1M), the #31 spot costs 9.75M.  And the 5th year option is 5.6M, and not guaranteed. 4 years, 9.75M, and a non-guaranteed option to make it 5 year / 15.3M.   That’s actually quite a bargain if the guy is your main RB (not a timeshare).   This is  unlike the top 10 picks whose 5th year options, the 11-32 options are usually potential big bargains over the going rate (Gurley & Elliott & Barkley are going to be nearly 10M as a contrast).  

Now I’m not a fan of spending your 1st unless you are a generational talent RB (so only Barkley, Gurley and Elliott qualify).   And certainly not if you aren’t going to use them like a committee back as NE usually does.   It’s a waste of resources to a devalued position and especially if you have similar talent players at higher need and higher cost positions, and can get similar talents later in the draft (my positional depth argument).  It’s going to be interesting to see how say Guice at 2.56 and CB Oliver at 1.31 will fare (as NE could have gone that way) vs.  Michel & Duke Dawson will work out for NE.    If NE uses Michel only as a committee back, then yes OMG it's a big overpay.  

But much like BAL taking Lamar at 1.32, I don’t mind the move up to those last few spots if ppl want that 5th year option for someone they have big plans for.  I don’t have a problem if you spend a 2nd round pick on a 3-down workhorse difference making  RB because the value is there (4 years, 9M total value).  And usually you’ve spent your 1st round pick on a more premium position by waiting until the 2nd (I argued this to WAS fans who were debating going Guice 1.13, turns out they got their cake and ate it too).   So it’s hard for me to say late 1st is awful but 2nd is ok  - what makes SEA so tough is it was their only pick for Rd 1-2 and they clearly still need OL help (no matter what they say about bargain bin guys).    NE had 2 1sts and addressed OL in a big way, so it's hard for me to criticize the NE pick, because they had 2 1sts, and they waited until the 31st pick - if they had made it the 34th, suddenly my criticism goes away completely, but not at the 31st?     And I suspect like so many others even if he plays really well, if Michel won’t sign a value 2nd contract he will be dealt after Year 4 for at least a Day 2 pick - once again restoring the draft depth that’s the Patriot way.   The key, though, is whether they will use Michel as more a true #1 guy.   That would make the move justifiable.

Still, I am surprised with Michel’s selection by NE given their normal usage of RB.   Even at 4 years / 10M it’s an overpay if they use him like a traditional NE committee guy given the available talent at other areas (and how much value is gained there).   If they use him as a feature 3-down back (60+ percent of the between-20’s snaps and all the RZ / 2-minute work), then the 31 spot makes way more sense.   But they aren’t infallible to misses.  Guess we will see.   

Edited by Broncofan

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Too bad about his health issues, kid was a talented prospect for sure.  Now with Wynn he has to become a great player for them, if not that offensive line is going to be in huge trouble.  Unless Waddle or Trent Brown can become the other OT opposite Cannon and Wynn moves into guard which I feel he would be a better fit.  

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8 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Too bad about his health issues, kid was a talented prospect for sure.  Now with Wynn he has to become a great player for them, if not that offensive line is going to be in huge trouble.  Unless Waddle or Trent Brown can become the other OT opposite Cannon and Wynn moves into guard which I feel he would be a better fit.  

The more likely scenario is Wynn plays left guard given Joe Thuney is having foot surgery and struggled at LG last year. Also, the Pats offensive line coach said teo days ago in a press conference Marcus Cannon will stay a right tackle. So, that means the Patriots traded a third round pick for Trent Brown to probably compete for left tackle with Waddle and at worse be a backup along the line except center.

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On 11/05/2018 at 11:18 PM, Broncofan said:

On a per pick basis absolutely.  

But BB doesn’t ever reach and instead accumulates value.   And drafts well enough to usually have a cheap replacement to let expensive 2nd contract guys walk.  And get more picks by trade or by comp picks.    It doesn’t always work out (Chandler Jones) but the formula really keeps them cap healthy in contention even without factoring in the Brady discount (which absolutely matters but by itself wouldn’t be enough to sustain this level of cap health and contention).  

NE & BB are so good at giving themselves extra shots it creates the illusion their percentages are a lot better.   Their ability to gain value is pretty special though given their commitment to not overpay or reach for draft picks and to turn guys in their last year into more draft capital.  

Tavon Wilson in the 2nd Round (slated 5th to 6th Round Pick)

Jordan Richards in the 2nd Round (slated 7th Round Pick)

Duron Harmon in the 3rd Round (Slated 6th to 7th Round Pick)

Ras-I Dowling with the 33rd Overall Pick (huge injury risk)

Dominique Easley in the 1st Round (2 knee surgeries)

 

Pats fans actually expect BB to reach for a player every year.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, TomRalph said:

Tavon Wilson in the 2nd Round (slated 5th to 6th Round Pick)

Jordan Richards in the 2nd Round (slated 7th Round Pick)

Duron Harmon in the 3rd Round (Slated 6th to 7th Round Pick)

Ras-I Dowling with the 33rd Overall Pick (huge injury risk)

Dominique Easley in the 1st Round (2 knee surgeries)

 

Pats fans actually expect BB to reach for a player every year.

Well I’ll be precise next time and say rarely ever lol.  Although if those are the worst for an 18-year record those are more the exceptions that prove the rule (esp as the last 2 were more injury risks which at the 30’s often happens).  

And again their willingness to accumulate value by trading back and saying goodbye to guys a year before FA allows them to take more shots.    Their rate may not actually be a whole lot different (and for some reason they have a blind spot with WR early) but the ability to accumulate value to take extra shots gives the illusion they are better on a per-pick basis.   When their overall ability to turn over the roster cheaply and still contend beyond Brady’s discount alone is difficult to argue with.  

Edited by Broncofan

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Best wishes to him at this time, to bad to see him battling injuries like that. 

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On 5/11/2018 at 5:48 PM, Oregon Ducks said:

Myth: New England is really good at drafting.

That isn't really a myth anymore. Nobody really sees them as the gold standard of the NFL draft.

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On 5/11/2018 at 6:18 PM, Broncofan said:

But BB doesn’t ever reach and instead accumulates value.

He reaches all the time. I feel like every year the Patriots have a tradition of drafting a terrible safety nobody knows in the 2nd-4th round range. New England makes a ton of "wtf" picks actually.

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On 5/11/2018 at 3:55 PM, EliteTexan80 said:

Wow, that's scary. Best to call it quits with issues like that.

It all depends tbh. A year+ can be more than enough time to resolve the issue. Or at least it was for a close friend of mine.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, the lone star said:

It all depends tbh. A year+ can be more than enough time to resolve the issue. Or at least it was for a close friend of mine.

If it was just 1 more year, the Pats would actually just put him on the reserve/NFI list and keep his rights for the last 2 years of his rookie deal.    They aren't an org that would cut bait unless a guy got bad news, or experienced a 2nd clot (which would pretty much derail anyone's career).  

Obviously we don't have all the details, but NE isn't an org that acts hastily in matters like these.    That's pretty ominous.

Edited by Broncofan

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1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

If it was just 1 more year, the Pats would actually just put him on the reserve/NFI list and keep his rights for the last 2 years of his rookie deal.    They aren't an org that would cut bait unless a guy got bad news, or experienced a 2nd clot (which would pretty much derail anyone's career).  

Obviously we don't have all the details, but NE isn't an org that acts hastily in matters like these.    That's pretty ominous.

That's fair. Yeah, the issue could be recurring and very serious. My friend just got unlucky. 

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11 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Hoping the Jets can find a gem here.

Me too.

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12 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Hoping the Jets can find a gem here.

He'll have to get on the field first, but the talent is there. The fact the Pats gave up on him after one year when he plays a position of need is extremely telling about the state of his injury, though.

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