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Heinz D.

NFC North 2018 Thread

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1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t disagree at all but you could probably say that about any fan base if we are all being honest with ourselves. It’s hard to hear and accept the criticism of your team sometimes even when it’s totally legit. 

Half of our sub-forum seems bipolar depending on the Bears' performance for the week. lol

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5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I’ve been wondering about this with the Cowboys. Dak looked really solid as a rookie (not GREAT, and overhyped because it’s Dallas, but solid) when he had Dez and Witten and Elliott and the best OL in the league but he underwhelmed last year without Elliott and now he doesn’t have Dez or Witten at all and his top WR are Allen Hurns and a rookie in Michael Gallup. I don’t see any way he’s terrible by any means, but we should find out this year if he’s truly any better than average. If he’s not then I see a 5-win team in Dallas. 

All or Nothing gives you a new perspective on Cowboys.  At least some anyway if you read between lines  Their all star O line was banged up, they ran everything through their RB who wasn't there much.  

They lost Dez and Witten going forward.  Dez is addition by subtraction at this point.  Show revealed he is over bearing and at times intimidating to coaches and players to point of distraction.  People walk on egg shells around him and don't hammer him for things he does wrong (which was a lot things last season).  Best part of show is when rookie corner stood up to him.   Witten is efficient and a loss, but doesn't really scare anyone anymore.

Now they are getting some injured OL back and adding Connor Williams to mix will make a big difference.  They seem like they could get back to being best O line in the league.  Other younger, faster guys will now see a lot more targets.  Team got a lot faster and younger offensively albeit with no big names.  

Defensively, I think Jaylon Smith got better every game from terrible to pretty good.  Their young secondary is talented, but it has a lot of tweener athletes and staff is confused whether guys are corners, safeties or free safeties.    I think defense hinges on health of Sean Lee, with additions and maturation of young guys, Lee makes them very good.   Lee, without the constant injuries throughout his career may have been a hall of famer.  In my opinion he would have been    Guy is a play making stud and another coach on the field.  Actually, I bet he is better than the Cowboys coaches who I am not impressed with.  Adding a first round LB to that group is going to really solidify things assuming Lee is there as well.   With good coaching defense could surprise some people.  

I don't see Cowboys as SB contenders, but I think this is a 9 win or better team barring injuries. 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, dll2000 said:

All or Nothing gives you a new perspective on Cowboys.  At least some anyway if you read between lines  Their all star O line was banged up, they ran everything through their RB who wasn't there much.  

They lost Dez and Witten going forward.  Dez is addition by subtraction at this point.  Show revealed he is over bearing and at times intimidating to coaches and players to point of distraction.  People walk on egg shells around him and don't hammer him for things he does wrong (which was a lot things last season).  Best part of show is when rookie corner stood up to him.   Witten is efficient and a loss, but doesn't really scare anyone anymore.

Now they are getting some injured OL back and adding Connor Williams to mix will make a big difference.  They seem like they could get back to being best O line in the league.  Other younger, faster guys will now see a lot more targets.  Team got a lot faster and younger offensively albeit with no big names.  

Defensively, I think Jaylon Smith got better every game from terrible to pretty good.  Their young secondary is talented, but it has a lot of tweener athletes and staff is confused whether guys are corners, safeties or free safeties.    I think defense hinges on health of Sean Lee, with additions and maturation of young guys, Lee makes them very good.   Lee, without the constant injuries throughout his career may have been a hall of famer.  In my opinion he would have been    Guy is a play making stud and another coach on the field.  Actually, I bet he is better than the Cowboys coaches who I am not impressed with.  Adding a first round LB to that group is going to really solidify things assuming Lee is there as well.   With good coaching defense could surprise some people.  

I don't see Cowboys as SB contenders, but I think this is a 9 win or better team barring injuries. 

You can look at a lot of that stuff both ways though. I agree getting rid of Dez has pros as well as cons but they didn’t IMO adequately replace him on the field. Witten wasn’t scary to anyone anymore but he was tried and true and as known a commodity as you could have, especially for a young QB. Those position groups are seemingly worse off than last year. 

Their OL is gonna be great again, but without a legit receiving threat Elliott is gonna see a ton of 8 man fronts too which negates at least some of that. Dak is going to have games where the D forces him to have to win the game with his underwhelming receivers and that’s a question mark IMO. Their D is far better when Lee is healthy. Completely agree. But he’s played 16 games in a season exactly zero times in 8 seasons and is now entering his age 32 season. Smith is probably always going to have some physical limitations, and Vander Esch has a notable injury history coming out of college. They lost Hitchens too.

To me I see 9 wins being the best case if most of the above goes favorably for them, but I also think they’re an early season serious injury to Elliott away from being really, really bad. That division has the reigning SB champ, a solid Washington team and a Giants team that was a playoff team 2 years ago before they lost their entire offense to injury last year. I’m having a hard time seeing Dallas finishing better than 3rd in that division even if most things go favorably for them. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/20/2018 at 8:31 AM, Spartacus said:

TBH Thompson was an elite drafter for a long stretch. He also had the balls to draft Rodgers in the first with Brett Favre still years from retirement.   What killed TT for the most part wasn't his drafting (His last couple years were pretty brutal) but his total inability to fill holes when drafting didn't work as intended or injuries struck. His last couple years where his drafting really fell off of a cliff it was apparent that his style would no longer work. He also had the tendency to draft "Football Players" and not athletes early. That is generally a good thing but the team got slower and slower by the year. It was most apparent with the WR corp, CBs, and LBs. 

Clay would cost cap if cut and really there isn't much behind him for the last 3 or 4 years sans Perry who also has injury issues. The Cupboard is pretty bare at OLB for the Packers right now so Clay getting cut is a pretty bad take for the current team. FYI there are some Packers posters that can be pretty sensitive to opposing fans coming in and saying anything negative about anything Packers especially if the take is wrong which no disrespect your Clay Matthews take was wrong IMO. One of the reasons I  like this thread as a Packers fan. Good place to get a difference of opinion and discussion without getting too heated. 

 

People always give Thompson credit for drafting Rodgers (with Favre still on the roster) while conveniently forgetting Favre had threatened to retire each of the two preceding seasons before that draft. I also think you've included plenty in there, as well as your previous observations on the long stretches of middling defenses, to back up my "Thompson wasn't very good" argument, but not only do I not really feel like going through that (as he's gone now), but I do think you rightly point out that his biggest problem was with free agency. I brought up the Matthews comment from the other sub-forum as its impossible to defend a GM using a poorly constructed contract as one's defense. Also, I think re-signing Perry was a very smart move, as there isn't much evidence he'll always be terribly injury prone, and the contract isn't ridiculous. 

Are you super excited for this coming season, or cautiously optimistic? 

On 6/20/2018 at 10:00 AM, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t disagree at all but you could probably say that about any fan base if we are all being honest with ourselves. It’s hard to hear and accept the criticism of your team sometimes even when it’s totally legit. 

I'm never very upset with criticism if its warranted, and isn't unfounded or, worse, conjured up entirely. (Example of the latter: Trubisky will suck because the Bears never have a good quarterback.) But then again, I'm old. Saw a psychotic head coach piss away a Super Bowl because he insisted on starting Doug Flutie. Lived through a GM trading away Eric Weddle for two guys who basically never even played in the NFL, with the main appeal of one of them being a stupid *** YouTube video where he jumped out of a kiddie pool and...nahh...it's still too painful to discuss... 

On 6/20/2018 at 10:02 AM, Sugashane said:

Half of our sub-forum seems bipolar depending on the Bears' performance for the week. lol

Well, that's kind of the nature of sports, isn't it? :D

Edited by Heinz D.

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Just wondering...anybody else coming up empty on other "day-to-day" knee injuries in the past? Also, I have yet to fire up any football media, but if the Packers actually play Rodgers today, everyone involved in that decision is making a horrible mistake.

Another question--was the Lions' performance last week an aberration, or an omen? 

Edited by Heinz D.

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31 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Just wondering...anybody else coming up empty on other "day-to-day" knee injuries in the past? Also, I have yet to fire up any football media, but if the Packers actually play Rodgers today, everyone involved in that decision is making a horrible mistake.

Another question--was the Lions' performance last week an aberration, or an omen? 

He’s officially active. Schefter said it’s an injury that won’t heal until October. He’s great and maybe the best QB I’ve seen, but this isn’t a good decision, no matter the outcome.

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31 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He’s officially active. Schefter said it’s an injury that won’t heal until October. He’s great and maybe the best QB I’ve seen, but this isn’t a good decision, no matter the outcome.

Packers fans best hope that means he's the backup. The Vikings defense will eat him alive otherwise. Hell, the Bears probably would have last week had they schemed things better.

Looks like I may not be switching between games as much as I thought I would...

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44 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He’s officially active. Schefter said it’s an injury that won’t heal until October. He’s great and maybe the best QB I’ve seen, but this isn’t a good decision, no matter the outcome.

If he can't further damage the knee then it's a matter of pain and performance right? Why not play him then?

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25 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

If he can't further damage the knee then it's a matter of pain and performance right? Why not play him then?

I don't see how they could be certain he couldn't further damage the knee--even though the Pack hasn't been very forthcoming about the injury, there is most likely some sort of sprain involved, and sprains are often partial tears. Also, if he's far less mobile, then he should be kept as far away from the Vikings defense as possible. 

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35 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

If he can't further damage the knee then it's a matter of pain and performance right? Why not play him then?

How do you know he can’t further damage it? When one has an injury like that, you usually have to exert even more out of other muscles in your body if you want to be as close to normal as I’m sure he would like to be.

Edited by beardown3231

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The Vikings OL was brutal last year, and all they did was sign Tom Compton and draft two linemen. Good thing they used a 5th round pick on Carlson though!

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28 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Vikings Packers is awesome today, hope they tie

Uhhhhhhhhhhh.... Let's try this again: I hope Mitch throws for 6 touchdowns Monday and more importantly shows great field vision and accuracy.

 

(Even though I'm playing my wife in ff, who, to annoy me has drafted literally all the bears. In a cash league)

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