New policy for the National Anthem

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

That's not what's going to happen, if I had to guess. You tell someone you'll fine them for protesting during the anthem, they'll protest, then make a publicity stunt out of paying the fine. 

This doesn't even mention that the NFLPA is going to use this as leverage. You just instituted a policy on a union that you didn't Collectively Bargain (and violates the thing you did Collectively Bargain). 

Now you have a running stories on the legal battles ongoing over the fine that was a publicity stunt on the controversial protest that was losing steam to begin with.

 

The tl;dr of this is that the NFL owners did something monumentally stupid.

[Malik]

They could just stop starting every game with the anthem. Please we don't need those extra 10 minutes of useless airtime.

[youngosu]

7 minutes ago, HDsportsfan said:

Who is/are "they"? Obviously the NFL doesn't care if the fans stand o not. Even if they did, nothing "they" can do about it. I just don't see how this is relevant.

Its less about what the NFL cares about and more the hypocrisy of said fans. 

I stand for the anthem even at bars but have honestly listened to people rant about Kaep while sitting at the table next to me with hats on during the anthem. That is why its so comical to me. Many of the people that are upset about Kaep don't even respect the anthem. 

And that is while I'll stop before it veers too much into politics. 

[Dome]

2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

That's not what's going to happen, if I had to guess. You tell someone you'll fine them for protesting during the anthem, they'll protest, then make a publicity stunt out of paying the fine. 

But then the NFL could potentially suspend them, right? Cause then it's breaking the rules repeatedly whereas before there wasn't really a rule. I realize they're making up the rules as they go, but if this is the new rule and players break it, the NFL can announce "We've suspended the protestors!" and it will still make people happy if that was really getting under their skin. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, domepatrol91 said:

But then the NFL could potentially suspend them, right? Cause then it's breaking the rules repeatedly whereas before there wasn't really a rule. I realize they're making up the rules as they go, but if this is the new rule and players break it, the NFL can announce "We've suspended the protestors!" and it will still make people happy if that was really getting under their skin. 

That's going to end up in courts immediately. Do NFL owners really want a Brady v. NFL situation again?

And Brady v. NFL set a fairly wide precedent on what the NFL can suspend players for, but this is a rule that was explicitly different than what was collectively bargained. I'd be interested in any of FF's resident lawyer's opinions on this, but my guess what be that the NFLPA would win or the judge would force them to arbitrate this in exchange for some concession on the part of the league.

There is not a path here where the players challenge this and the NFL does well.

[youngosu]

2 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

But then the NFL could potentially suspend them, right? Cause then it's breaking the rules repeatedly whereas before there wasn't really a rule. I realize they're making up the rules as they go, but if this is the new rule and players break it, the NFL can announce "We've suspended the protestors!" and it will still make people happy if that was really getting under their skin. 

Without NFLPA approval I'm not sure they can even fine them. That is a collective bargaining issue. Changing a policy mid-CBA without union approval seems questionable at best. 

[Woz]

Just now, domepatrol91 said:

but serisouyl, without videos of players kneeling on the sidelines during the broadcast, or on loop on these shows a lot of fans are going to be able to ignore players who stay in the locker room. I really think this cuts down a lot of the outrage and backlash. Obviously this still won't be acceptable to some, but I think it helps.

"Personnel who choose not to stand for the Anthem may stay in the locker room or in a similar location off the field until after the Anthem has been performed."

If I am a player who wishes to protest this, I stand in the tunnel. Heck, I kneel in the tunnel. I know there are cameras back there. I make sure I get that filmed so it is on loop.

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

That's not what's going to happen, if I had to guess. You tell someone you'll fine them for protesting during the anthem, they'll protest, then make a publicity stunt out of paying the fine. 

That is an alternative option.

Oh, yeah, and when it happens to one guy, then perhaps his whole position group stays in the tunnel for the next game?

[DreamKid]

I wonder if the kneeling had begun because players felt the country didn't stand strongly enough against child sex crimes/trafficking, or pay the issue enough attention( which they don't), would the backlash have been as strong by the media against the movements opposition? Would people who didn't want to kneel be accused of supporting sex crimes and horrific cultures? Or would the oh so enlightened media understand that some people don't want to be confronted with the country and world's horrific realities during Sunday leisure time, and those who do stand against issues don't have to do so uniformly? My guess is the latter. The former only works when the center conflict is viewed so corruptly, it affords mindless, baseless, and just sad realities. 

The media used the players, the players used the media and the issue, and in the end all of them suffered and came out looking worse and farther away a positive solution. 

 

 

 

[Woz]

Just now, Malik said:

They could just stop starting every game with the anthem. Please we don't need those extra 10 minutes of useless airtime.

While this would solve the problem, the whole thing was originated from a "cannot disrespect the troops and the flag" perspective. If the NFL thought one player kneeling was going to bring out the complaints, imagine what would happen if they did away with the anthem.

That was never on the table.

[youngosu]

Just now, DreamKid said:

I wonder if the kneeling had begun because players felt the country didn't stand strongly enough against child sex crimes/trafficking, or pay the issue enough attention( which they don't), would the backlash have been as strong by the media against the movements opposition? Would people who didn't want to kneel be accused of supporting sex crimes and horrific cultures? Or would the oh so enlightened media understand that some people don't want to be confronted with the country and world's horrific realities during Sunday leisure time, and those who do stand against issues don't have to do so uniformly? My guess is the latter. The former only works when the center conflict is viewed so corruptly, it affords mindless, baseless, and just sad realities. 

The media used the players, the players used the media and the issue, and in the end all of them suffered and came out looking worse and farther away a positive solution. 

 

 

 

I know this is dangerous turf to respond too but honestly I think had it simply been white players protesting something the uproar wouldn't have occurred. 

And now its time for me to run away from this thread lol....

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 minute ago, Woz said:

"Personnel who choose not to stand for the Anthem may stay in the locker room or in a similar location off the field until after the Anthem has been performed."

If I am a player who wishes to protest this, I stand in the tunnel. Heck, I kneel in the tunnel. I know there are cameras back there. I make sure I get that filmed so it is on loop.

That's step 1.

Then, you get the fine, tweet a screenshot of the request. Get the NFLPA to file a formal protest, spruce up that legal wardrobe.

In the meantime, you publicly make direct donations for the exact amount of the fine to some combination of charities focused on police violence AND a charity that helps military veterans get healthcare. You get a year or 18 months worth of stories and attention to your issue for the cost of 2 fines and a knee pad.

The NFL is so damn stupid. Every time.

[August4th]

NFL can't win with this.. a group of people will be mad with whatever decision they came up with

honestly this whole situation just feels like hot air to me from both sides 

[HDsportsfan]

10 minutes ago, youngosu said:

Its less about what the NFL cares about and more the hypocrisy of said fans. 

I stand for the anthem even at bars but have honestly listened to people rant about Kaep while sitting at the table next to me with hats on during the anthem. That is why its so comical to me. Many of the people that are upset about Kaep don't even respect the anthem. 

And that is while I'll stop before it veers too much into politics. 

Fair point. I understand what you're getting at. But the fans aren't the ones the attention will be given to by the talking heads. I'm on the everyone should stand of this issue, but to each his/her own.

[Woz]

Just now, domepatrol91 said:

But then the NFL could potentially suspend them, right? Cause then it's breaking the rules repeatedly whereas before there wasn't really a rule. I realize they're making up the rules as they go, but if this is the new rule and players break it, the NFL can announce "We've suspended the protestors!" and it will still make people happy if that was really getting under their skin. 

Based on that policy, no, the NFL could not suspend them. It looks like the NFL can only levy fines on the franchise (point #4) and discipline league personnel (#6).

Now, their individual team might be able to suspend them once they create their own rules (point #5). But that gets to an even bigger problem when teams have different rules.

 

The only possible good thing that could come out of this for the NFL owners is that now the NFLPA has a new bargaining target for the CBA, which means they might not grab hold of something else or trade for something else. (no @youngosu, I don't think that even this is enough for 18 games, but that's something we take to the other thread).

[Thomas5737]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

While this would solve the problem, the whole thing was originated from a "cannot disrespect the troops and the flag" perspective. If the NFL thought one player kneeling was going to bring out the complaints, imagine what would happen if they did away with the anthem.

That was never on the table.

We need an amendment to the constitution for the separation of sport and state.