Forge Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Fureys49ers said: For sure, and by no means am I hating on Allen but as @CWood21 put it the discussion and excuses that are given and/or had for Allen are almost nauseating at this point. Take him for what he is at face value for right now is my take, he's one hell of a physical specimen who's going to need a lot of time and work. Nope, I get it. You in particular know how big of a fan I was of Allen last year and I've completely come back on that. I can't even take the guy in the first round at this point. At some point, you just have to show something on the field. Your lack of talent around you only works when you're not competing against the likes of Hawaii lol. I mean a team like Iowa? Okay, yeah, I get that. But Hawaii? No freaking way. And yeah, he's probably still got the highest upside of any quarterback in this draft, but at this point his floor is so low it's just too risky. At this point, if I asked what his most like outcome was, A) Big Ben, B) Taller, slower Jake Locker, or C) Josh Freeman without the mental issues, which is more likely. It's not Big Ben lol. He's like Kizer was at this point last year - tremendous upside that needs a lot of work. I had a second round grade on him last year if he wanted to come out, and I don't mind someone taking him in that range this year similar to what the Browns did with Kizer. But I'm not burning a first on him. Do I think that there will be one random GM/Coach that will pull the trigger on him in the first this year? Yeah, probably. But that's on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Forge said: And yeah, he's probably still got the highest upside of any quarterback in this draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: From a pure upside standpoint, yeah, he's definitely got to be in that conversation. I'm not as big of a fan as most though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Forge said: From a pure upside standpoint, yeah, he's definitely got to be in that conversation. I'm not as big of a fan as most though. No, I'm highly skeptical too. But a great coach could help him get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 41 minutes ago, Forge said: Nope, I get it. You in particular know how big of a fan I was of Allen last year and I've completely come back on that. I can't even take the guy in the first round at this point. At some point, you just have to show something on the field. Your lack of talent around you only works when you're not competing against the likes of Hawaii lol. I mean a team like Iowa? Okay, yeah, I get that. But Hawaii? No freaking way. And yeah, he's probably still got the highest upside of any quarterback in this draft, but at this point his floor is so low it's just too risky. At this point, if I asked what his most like outcome was, A) Big Ben, B) Taller, slower Jake Locker, or C) Josh Freeman without the mental issues, which is more likely. It's not Big Ben lol. He's like Kizer was at this point last year - tremendous upside that needs a lot of work. I had a second round grade on him last year if he wanted to come out, and I don't mind someone taking him in that range this year similar to what the Browns did with Kizer. But I'm not burning a first on him. Do I think that there will be one random GM/Coach that will pull the trigger on him in the first this year? Yeah, probably. But that's on them. And this train of logic is something I can understand. Personally, that's a tad high for me. I'm comfortable with taking him late Day 2, early Day 3. But at some point the production has to match the tools, and that has yet to happen. And quite frankly, I'm not sure it ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 51 minutes ago, CWood21 said: You're missing the point of my post. You keep saying he's clearly more talented than Hack, yet you have yet to point out a single way in which he is. Is it his arm strength, accuracy, or decision making that makes you arrive to this conclusion? At this point, you've put out an opinion and stated it as a fact, which isn't the case. Literally every category. LIS before, he's probably a 2nd/3rd round prospect. But he's going go very early in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justo Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 McShay says Lamar Jackson is his 7th ranked QB in this class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, justo said: McShay says Lamar Jackson is his 7th ranked QB in this class Let's see if he sticks to it. In credit to him, he has in the past. I remember how much he really disliked Derek Carr, and he actually stuck with it the entire predraft process. I think he had like a 4th or 5th round grade on him or something like that at the end. What bugs me is when someone like Jaws makes headlines with "Manziel is a third/fourth rounder in my mind" and then two months later, watches more tape and suddenly views Manziel basically with the consensus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 7 hours ago, BrownLeader said: No, I'm highly skeptical too. But a great coach could help him get there. Personally im a bigger fan of hopefully not Blaine Gabbert like clone at Miss St. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 12:28 PM, Zed Rational said: My faith in Luke Falk also dropped a little, although I would be happy to draft him in the second or third round and watch him fight to make himself an NFL starter. I just like the way he walked on and made himself a better player every year. Yeah. Saw a lot of what people don't like with Falk vs Oregon. Held the ball way too long on too many occasions, and the deep ball was off most of the game. Still did all the sort of things i like there, and still makes a ton of tight window throws right on the money. But the undesirable traits were on display i thought. Still really interests me as a project though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Rational Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Traits are a far better way of evaluating a quarterback than numbers. Watch Allen and see what he can do. Yeah, he's raw, and he'll need development that he isn't getting at Wyoming. But when you actually see him avoid a rush, flick his wrist and hit a receiver 60 yards down the field in full stride, then you get a far better idea of what he can do than by simply reading a box score and comparing his numbers to someone who played in a whole other program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Zed Rational said: Traits are a far better way of evaluating a quarterback than numbers. Watch Allen and see what he can do. Yeah, he's raw, and he'll need development that he isn't getting at Wyoming. But when you actually see him avoid a rush, flick his wrist and hit a receiver 60 yards down the field in full stride, then you get a far better idea of what he can do than by simply reading a box score and comparing his numbers to someone who played in a whole other program. I keep hearing this whole "evaluating traits" argument, and think it's being poorly applied. Look at Josh Allen, even if you're evaluating traits you can't ignore the fact that he's got poor accuracy, questionable decision making, and inconsistent footwork. I could honestly care less if that one in a dozen throws are NFL-caliber throws, the fact is the other 11 throws are garbage. And yes, I'm being intentionally obtuse to make a point. I watched him against Hawaii and Oregon, and neither one of those games I came away thinking that there was a legitimate chance to find a starting NFL QB in either of those games. Maybe I picked two games to watch that paint him in an inaccurate light, but the reality is that he's done nothing to justify using a 1st round pick on him. And I'm not even sure he's done enough to justify using a Day 2 pick on him either. He's a project, and quite frankly I think he's a bigger project than Patrick Mahomes who many said was a year away from being a year away last year. There's just too many red flags to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 @CWood21 I think your diminishing his arm talent and ability to extend plays. I also wouldn't call his accuracy "poor" either. If his accuracy was poor he wouldn't throw so many interceptions. His issues are mental processing and touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, Scout said: @CWood21 I think your diminishing his arm talent and ability to extend plays. I also wouldn't call his accuracy "poor" either. If his accuracy was poor he wouldn't throw so many interceptions. His issues are mental processing and touch. Again, I think he's prob like a 3rd round grade. With you on not taking him in the 1st, but that's ultimately where he'll go. All these quarterbacks go too damn high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Opinions on Marshall QB Chase Litton? I remember Trent Dilfer raving about him a year or two ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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